Help MobilityGuru Redesign Psion's Iconic, Ultrasmall 5mx

[Crashman]

Heheh, the Gateway mini laptop I was using was so thin, they had to put the battery in the lid hinge. They used a hinge that was cylindrical, as thick as the lid and base together, and put the battery in the center.

 

[WolfpacK122]

The reason why I chosed AMD Turion Processor is because of nVidia nForce 430. Of cos we all know Intel ULV processors consume very little power, but its video performance in its chipset does not work well.

Unless i have been sleeping for these few month, wat i am aware is that nVidia has not released a chipset with integrated video for Intel ULV processor.

nVidia's nForce 430 is good because of its integrated graphics. Its 6150 graphics is not only able to peform as a low-end gaming machine, it can also do hardware video decoding with Purevideo, eg. Xvid and h.264. My experience tells me that a 640 by 480video encoded in h.264 with subtitle needs AT LEAST a 1GHz AMD athlon processor to at least play back smoothly. Even then the CPU is always running at 90% workload.
With the 430, it can help reduce the workload on the CPU by helping out in the decoding of the video.

Or unless you are the kind which does word processing and the like, for that i can recommend a VIA based CPU/chipset solution.

So unless those ULV processors can have the performance to decode a H.264 video smoothly without stutter, then I will still lean towards Turion/430 combination

Putting that in a mobile pc of the size of the 5mx would be a dream. Basically shoving all that into the 5mx is currently impossible and having a battery that could run that for more than even 3-4 hourswithout deforming the looks of the pc would be a miracle which really defeats the whole purpose of having a ultra small mobile pc. What I was trying to do was suggest something realistic enough to be implemented. Also the intel ulv is more powerful than an 1Ghz AMD. If u noticed i also suggested an intel core duo which runs at 1.66Ghz and only consumes 1.6 times the power of the core solo, I think that would be able to handle any kind of video available right now(i think the core solo could do that as well).

 

[sillycon]

I was thinking for abit... and I think the processor chipset graphics selection will be a tough one~!!

I think you can go two directions on this.

One with a bigger display - maybe a slightly over sized version of Psion 5mx.
This put a low voltage, low temperature, low power x86 CPU.
The most the user will be doing is presentation, very normal office work, internet, video music listening.
The user will be just looking at quick mobililty. Someone always on the move but don't need the fancy footwork. Hell I would.
The thing is if the price point is over USD 1300~1500, then it's going to be some niche market or concept showcase like the mini pcs from sony and s/s.


The other is looking in the space of WinCE.
The freaking thing is, I still don't find WinCE all that useful.
It's buggy, can't do much office work... wireless is useless, and all the glorified Microsoft hickups.
These days you can fit WinXP with office and general network configs on less than 5 GB. I think if it had a 10GB SSD would do the trick. And have a SD expansion slot.
Samsung or other memory company will start to roll out CF card sized SSDs, and I bet they can design something on that logic for the Psion.
Question is the CPU. you need a low wattage cpu that is like some all in one chip with audio and video built-in. >> Maybe someone can fill this in.
And the footsize of the cpu gotta be small....

Anyone got some good ideas?

Sillycon - ~~~

 

[Crashman]

Good ideas? Make it cheaper. Use a Geode, off the shelf Lithiom Ion batteries, and an SiS chipset. What, you think that sounds crappy? You don't need much for office work.

 

[Luscious]

Question 1. Given the extrawide screen format I would use 1280x600.

Question 2. Use entry version core solo absolutely, lowest power of any CPU.

Question 3. 1GB ram can be easily done, soldered onto mb.

Question 4. Use solid state disk storage only - its the least power hungry and can go upto 64GB. Now here's a twist, use 1.8 inch form factor - and make it interchangeable with 1.8 inch HDD!!!

Question 5. Have built-in 802.11 b/g, infrared, bluetooth, and definitely WWAN with sim card holder!

Add a stereo microphone jack for cable mic/line-in audio and install a webcam like Sony ux280.

Possibly add fingerprint scanner.

Question 6. How about 2 rechargeable li-ion batteries in AA form factor, then put a tiny barrel connector on the side of the device for a small external 4xAA battery pack!!!

Question 7. 7.5x3.5x1.0 inch is a good size

Question 8. I would give it an MSRP ~$1800 given the unique nature of the product and its proprietary design.

Other issues: get rid of the two usb ports and use smaller mini usb ports - uses less space on motherboard. Likewise dump the video port and use mini vga port like the Fujitsu P1000.

One big thing you guys forgot:
Design a DOCKING STATION with 2.5 inch hard drive bay, pcmcia slot, more usb ports, firewire port, com port, slim dvd drive bay. Even better, slap on a notebook battery pack on the bottom of your docking station and make the whole show portable!!!

 

[Schmide]

I for one would like to see a drive/extra battery carriage that attaches from the bottom. This way you could...

a) swap drives quickly for multiple boot platforms and testing...

b) run without a drive for less power and weight

c) add power hungry upgrades in carriage. (3d chip, camera, sata port, high power wi-fi)

c) possible stacking....

 

[Halberd388]

Question #1: How about display resolution? The 5mx had a 640x240 display. For the Psion 20xx, it would be nice to have 1024x600 or better, 1024x768, but we'd settle for 800x600. What do you think? And, are we being realistic about resolution?

In my opinion, instead of sticking to a 4:3 standard it would be best to use a 16:10 standard instead of a 4:3. This pushes the cost up some, more than likely, but it'll be easier to read.

Questions #2 and #3: A very low power Intel Core Solo processor makes sense here. Do you agree? How much system memory do we want? The 5mx came with a now very measly 16 MB. We'd need at least 512 MB, 1 GB would be better.


The processor would need to be fanless, consume less than 15watts (less heat dispersal). I'd have to say a 850Mghz-1ghz VIA Eden ESP processor with CN400 chipset. This also gives you the ability to run DDR memory; 266, 333 or 400 I believe. 512MB ram should be plenty to run a great deal of applications. The RAM should be upgradeable by the user (the original 512 should be soldered onboard), however a CPU upgrade would require a new mainboard.


Questions #4 and #5: What kind of storage are we going to use? Maybe solid state of some kind; maybe a 1.8" 40 GB drive. And should WiFi be built in?

I have to certainly go with solid state memory; CTF NAND-Flash would be the best bet because of it's size. A user-upgradeable NAND flash drive would be best, as to give a product a full life even after the storage capacity is no long valid. Start out on the low end with 32GB and make the higher end a 64GB. I believe Bluetooth as well as Wibree should be incorporated along with A/G and N WiFi into the device on the higher end only.


Question #6: What kind of battery or batteries would we need to give our Psion 20xx at least 10 hours of operating time.

Currently, the best type of battery to use is a Li-Ion battery. Rather cheap, easy enough to produce. As for 10hours of operating time, I doubt it, maybe 4 hours if the screen brightness were turned down with bluetooth off.



Questions #7 and #8: Would all the components we want in the 20xx fit in a case 6.5” to 7.5” long, 3.5” wide and around 1” high? Finally, what price are we talking here? Is $1,000 realistic? Is it too low, too high or about right for you?

I believe it could all fit into a 1" high package, it's been done before. $1000 is too rich for my blood, though it'll likely cost 1,500 for the first few thousand, as other manufacturers beging to copy it the price of needed components will decline as (if) demand rises. I would not buy one for more than 800 dollars myself even at top end.


Personally - I'd like to see it also have cell phone capabilities. Not that I mean hold the device up to your ear, but perhaps if using a bluetooth headset you could dial out on a CDMA / EDGE / Whatever network. Make a replaceable chip for the device that would allow it to work on any network, make it open source so the Cellphone companies could hop on board and make chips to work in the device.

Windows Platform... has to be a windows platform. However, if you really want the device to be "end all be all" make it open source and convince Apple to jump on the band wagon. That way, they can make drives for the device and Run Mac OSx on it as well. Since it'll be open source, the Linux mates would love being able to make drivers for it.

 

[megapol2]

That was one decent pda device reminds me of my old jornada 620. Speaking of which I gutted the old docking station into an arm mount that never quite fit right. I like to see a oem forearm or wrist mount, don't think i want i in my pocket.

As for resolution 800x600ish would be fine.

A Core solo is acceptable.

1 to 2GB with an aggresive hard disk spin down and application caching or ram drive.

30GB 1.8" 4200 or sub 4200rpm drive and maybe a premium model with a solid state drive. I don't like the idea of is a $3000 ultra portable like Sharp.


Wifi is a must for must computer like device to be useful or sell.

I'd love to be able to use AA's but the machine will need a li-ion or NiMH battery pack.

About $1000 would be nice but 1200-1500 might be acceptable depending on options.

 

[carlos_orff]

The price at this age of technology should be below 700$ anything above that is nonsense.
We need something that is functional and if it is broken or lost, you can buy another for a decent price.

Cpu 500-900 ULV celeron or amd or VIA C7 or Crusoe
integrated graphic and chipset with wlan
512MB ram
20GB hdd or even 4-8GB flash cheap stuff
1024x600 or something like VAIO with Crusoe chip
2xUSB,VGA out


primary function of such devices is surfing the net,writing documents and other office related stuff and not games or cad design.

 

[bestofcomputer]

Hi.
This project is such a nice idea !
But, even if I am French, I live in India !
So, my point of view comes with a slight difference from what US users might dream about for this Project !
Here are my answers to your questions, even if it is worth only for the Indian Market, despite it is a hugely newly growing market that should not be ignored during the design of this Project, and therefore my personal remarks neither :
1/
2 resolutions should be available, in order to acomodate the visibility, the useability, and the battery life : default to 800 x 600. option to switch to : 1024 x 800. 64k colors minimum...
A super-graphics might not be necessary.
Anyway, it would nice if it supports DirectX 9.0c.
2/
CPU = no doubt about the new Low Power Solo Core from Intel. But why not AMD, coz might be cheaper, no ? Or preferably Latest Mobile Editions (Intel/AMD?), or otherwise the battery should be good enough, no ?
3/
RAM = 1 GB, upgradable to 2 GB.
There is never not enough RAM for Windows to run smoothly !...
The more you put, the better it is !
4/
HD :
definitively not solid state in a developing country coz too too much costly !!!
1.8"" 40GB perpendicular shock-resistant and with a little cache of flash is the perfect choice !
Do the so mobile iPod with a built-in small HD have any pbs ? No ! so, you see !...
5/
Wifi :
definitely yes : a/b/g.
But isnt Intel going to bring "n" also with its roseta platform ?
So it should be : a/b/g/n !!!
BTW : if we have "n", then we dont need also WiMax ! Or we have to choose between them, no ?
But it is not the connection of choice in a developing country !
So, a built-in LAN connection is a MUST-HAVE (all broadband in India comes as an Ethernet Cable and not at all via USB or even Telephone Lines, didnt you know that ?) !!!
BTW : do it good : 1GB LAN is better !
Bluetooth : I agree also. But please do it good : V 2.0 ! (BTW : A Version 3.0 has been anounced, isnt it, so better include it if available, no ?).
And, excuse me, but we have no need here of such things as : WLAN, EVDO or 3G+, coz it's only for US-folks, no ?! Please stop to be US-Centric ! Think about the Global Civilization and the Developing World First, it is time to wake up a little bit !!!...
6/
Of course a best batery is nice !
But we cant afford them here !
You have to find the best compromise between longevity / cost / size / convenience of rechargeability or exchangeability / availability in poor countries.
7/
about the size i dont know you must experiment many prototypes...
8/
about the price :
yes $1000 is a good price. but in the west only !
Here we have a full PC for less than $300.
So I guess that a portable PC would be worth investing in it, only if the cost does not go too much more than double of a PC.
So it means, I propose : $600 (actually, at least for India only...).
9/
OS :
definitively not Mobile Windows !
I only want to use a full Windows XP Pro with a SP3, whenever this one may be available !...
Thanks.
Bye.

 

[Baloo]

The price at this age of technology should be below 700$ anything above that is nonsense.
We need something that is functional and if it is broken or lost, you can buy another for a decent price.

Cpu 500-900 ULV celeron or amd or VIA C7 or Crusoe
integrated graphic and chipset with wlan
512MB ram
20GB hdd or even 4-8GB flash cheap stuff
1024x600 or something like VAIO with Crusoe chip
2xUSB,VGA out


primary function of such devices is surfing the net,writing documents and other office related stuff and not games or cad design.

I Couldn't agree more. The Psion cost around £400 (?) when it was new so why are we trying to spec a £1500 laptop?

 

[Crashman]

How the HELL are you going to read 6 font at 1280x anything on a screen that's only at most 7 inches wide?

I would certainly hope nobody follows that kind of idiocy "more more more" in less and less space...

 

[davidmcnaught]

How the HELL are you going to read 6 font at 1280x anything on a screen that's only at most 7 inches wide?

I would certainly hope nobody follows that kind of idiocy "more more more" in less and less space...

To be fair, this screen will be almost twice as wide as my old Zaurus C860 VGA screen, so 1280 could be fully utilised, and with the zaurus, higher resolution (say 800x600) would not have been wasted, so I think even 1600x would be great, as long as software was designed for this - you could zoom things up to be the right size & they would look really smooth & not pixelated.

Although I'd say they are desireable, these high resolutions are not currently feasible for an affordable device of this size.

 

[sjobal]

The form-factor of the original 5mx should stay exactly the same. And the device should make use of every component that leads to best performance per Watt, lowest energy consumption and lowest weight. Therefore:

1. Specially selected Intel Core Solo ULV U1400 (Intel might want to co-operate on delivering the best components for such a highly anticipated device), 266 MHz FSB, all the energy-saving function enabled.
2. ULV chipset with GMA 950, lower clocks and 266 MHz FSB.
3. 512 MB PC2-5300 SDRAM clocked lower (133 MHz DDR) and operating on ultra low voltage. 512 MB is enough for XP with a little multitasking (Word, Excel, e-mail and Internet at once), and consumes very little energy.
4. 8 GB solid-state hard drive with an optimized version of XP that uses less space on a 4 GB partition.
5. LED backlit TFT of original fysical size with a 1152 x 432 resolution (enough for nice website rendering and very high resolution for the small screen dimensions).
6. All the wireless connection currently available: IrDA, Bluetooth 2.0 EDR and IEEE 802.11 a/b/g and WWAN (maybe Intel wants to add WiMax for a bargain).
7. 2x USB 2.0 (for printers, keyboard, mouses), 1x mini-DVI (for monitors, beamers or TV-sets; with dongle for D-sub or S-video), 3½ mm audio jack, SD/MMC slot (why use CF anyway, flash is dirt-cheap nowadays) and power-cable.
8. Original keyboard with magnesium keys.
9. The best in class PDA battery that is widely available (from a large manufacturer).
10. Magnesium alloy casing for light-weight and optimal durability.

Costs:
1. Processor $ 90
2./6. Chipset + motherboard + wireless $ 50
3. RAM $ 40
4. Solid-state $ 90
5. Screen $ 50
7./8./10. Housing + keyboard + connectors $ 50
9. Battery $ 30
11. Marketing $ 50
12. Total margin 100% $ 450
Total price $ 900

 

[Baloo]

The form-factor of the original 5mx should stay exactly the same. And the device should make use of every component that leads to best performance per Watt, lowest energy consumption and lowest weight. Therefore:

1. Specially selected Intel Core Solo ULV U1400 (Intel might want to co-operate on delivering the best components for such a highly anticipated device), 266 MHz FSB, all the energy-saving function enabled.
2. ULV chipset with GMA 950, lower clocks and 266 MHz FSB.
3. 512 MB PC2-5300 SDRAM clocked lower (133 MHz DDR) and operating on ultra low voltage. 512 MB is enough for XP with a little multitasking (Word, Excel, e-mail and Internet at once), and consumes very little energy.
4. 8 GB solid-state hard drive with an optimized version of XP that uses less space on a 4 GB partition.
5. LED backlit TFT of original fysical size with a 1152 x 432 resolution (enough for nice website rendering and very high resolution for the small screen dimensions).
6. All the wireless connection currently available: IrDA, Bluetooth 2.0 EDR and IEEE 802.11 a/b/g and WWAN (maybe Intel wants to add WiMax for a bargain).
7. 2x USB 2.0 (for printers, keyboard, mouses), 1x mini-DVI (for monitors, beamers or TV-sets; with dongle for D-sub or S-video), 3½ mm audio jack, SD/MMC slot (why use CF anyway, flash is dirt-cheap nowadays) and power-cable.
8. Original keyboard with magnesium keys.
9. Magnesium alloy casing for light-weight and optimal durability.

Costs:
1. Processor $ 90
2./6. Chipset + motherboard + wireless $ 50
3. RAM $ 40
4. Solid-state $ 90
5. Screen $ 50
7./8./9. Housing + keyboard + connectors $ 50
10. Marketing $ 50
11. Total margin 100% $ 420
Total price $ 840

Nice spec. Probably the most sensible yet! I would opt for a smaller solid state drive along with a small 1.8" drive. Could work out cheaper and give more space.

 

[spiralsun1]

This is the laptop design I have been waiting for -- one unit for everything, portable as heck.... full keyboard... a miracle. I would pay a lot for that. I would buy one without hesitation @ $1500.00. Im not rich either.

1) long-lasting batteries are a MUST!! I am sick of 2-3 hour batteries that let you get started on work and quit on you. 4 hours is a minimum. 8 would be great!

2) can run any online content -- including flash and Java games (im a runescape junkie... would pay 1000.00 for a computer JUST to play Runescape anywhere I go...) I want to be able to do my banking and bill paying anywhere, anytime. I want to be able to shop online.

3) I want to be able to look at pictures and movies on it reasonably

4) I want to be able to read books on it, and use a word processor to write one if I want too.

5) email of course

6) good enough graphics for these uses

7) 30 GB hard drive would be fine -- or solid state

8) WIFI ABSOLUTELY REQUIRED, come on now!

9) AMD processors, please! (Intel has a fab in Israel... divest!)

 

[Crashman]

Intel is evil, but they do have a plant in Isreal so they can't be totally evil. Hence I buy their products. After all, AMD has facilities in Texas...

 

[davidmcnaught]

There are various ideas of what the new 'Psion 5' should be, should it be as the Psion 5 was in it's day but updated, or a tiny PC?

Some suggest it being a small X86 machine, others a high end PDA. There could be 2 versions, an X86 extremely expensive version, and a more affordable high-end PDA version.

The PDA version would offer most of the functionality of a PC, but the battery life could be amazing, it would be instant on/off, and would be a lot less expensive etc.

The X86 version could be the coolest ever mini laptop.

Should there be two different versions, or do people want to just go for the X86 version? (As most people's specs suggest this)?

 

[gazza_d]

the 5mx was, and in some ways still is, brilliant. What we need is not a differently packaged laptop. Go and buy a sony viao if that's what youa re after.

Keep the size, form factor exactly as it is. the psions screen is about the right size, make it colour, up the resolution to something comparable to a PSP screen, and keep the touch screen.

You could use an arm processor, just make it fast enough to play back divx video, and handle mp3.

Keep the CF slot, and make it CFII so it can take microdisks, add usb 2.0, virtually everything has usb from ext hard drives to cameras.

Add Wireless lan, and bluetooth, keep the IR, but include a IR control package like LIRC for linux (makes it the ultimate tv control)

All of this tech is there in the marketplace already, it just needs someone to bring it together in the classic design, which is possibly still patented by psion, but even a clamshell design like the 3mx is a very workable design. Some of these new chinese smartphones are nearly there, as is the nokia communicator, but not quite.

 

[Frank_M]

My few cents:

It's mainly for office use and an on-the-go, highly-mobile-electronic-calendar,
so no need for a very fast cpu and state-of-the-art graphics.
A hugely underclocked Core Solo ULV and GMA950 will be more than enough.
I'm not exactly familiar with ultra-low-consumption chips, might be some
better options, too. And like those new Toshibas, the casing should also serve
as a heatsink. No fans.
Display: 800x480, 16 bit should be plenty.
RAM: 512 should be enough. How's about soldering the chips in instead of
using laptop sodimm and slots? Would save some space.
Storage: nand flash. Small, low power consumption and even cheap - ideal
for this, isn't it?
Ports: 2 USB, DVI, SD, headphone jack.
Wifi: a must.
Battery: 4xAA