Hmmm didn't I predict this over a year ago

[Greg]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

And RTV missed the boat ... again

http/www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5915470/site/newsweek/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Greg wrote:
> And RTV missed the boat ... again
>
> http/www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5915470/site/newsweek/

As usual, you know very little about Replays. This is a copy of Replay
ichannels. Keep checking on this and let us know how they make out. LOL.

 

[Greg]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

>As usual, you know very little about Replays. This is a copy of Replay
>ichannels. Keep checking on this and let us know how they make out. LOL.

I channels? What is that and when will I see it?
Until RTV gets connected to a content provider you won't ever see anything that
isn't coming down your regular TV cable.
The Netflix deal will allow TiVo folks to stream anything that is in the DVD
market.
That is typically 4 weeks before the PPV folks get things and that is the
current hangup with the deal.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

In article <20040912112802.10671.00000737@mb-m04.aol.com>,
gfretwell@aol.com (Greg) wrote:

> The Netflix deal will allow TiVo folks to stream anything that is in the DVD
> market.

The point was, Replay already started into and abandoned that market.
Now comes Tivo, like they're doing something original.

Those who would ignore the past, are condemned to repeat it. And so
goes Tivo.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <20040912112802.10671.00000737@mb-m04.aol.com>,
> gfretwell@aol.com (Greg) wrote:
>
>
>>The Netflix deal will allow TiVo folks to stream anything that is in the DVD
>>market.
>
>
> The point was, Replay already started into and abandoned that market.
> Now comes Tivo, like they're doing something original.
>
> Those who would ignore the past, are condemned to repeat it. And so
> goes Tivo.
>

Let's see:

Let me order some movie for some exhorbitant price
I'll wait 5 days or so for it to download. (Gee, Netflix is a 2 day turn
via mail)

The media people want you to not be able to send it to anyone and to
delete automatically after X views or x number of days.

Seems very few studios will allow this at all.

I believe it's a publiicity stunt to raise cash.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 13:16:03 -0400, Tony D <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

>Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
>> In article <20040912112802.10671.00000737@mb-m04.aol.com>,
>> gfretwell@aol.com (Greg) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The Netflix deal will allow TiVo folks to stream anything that is in the DVD
>>>market.
>>
>>
>> The point was, Replay already started into and abandoned that market.
>> Now comes Tivo, like they're doing something original.
>>
>> Those who would ignore the past, are condemned to repeat it. And so
>> goes Tivo.
>>
>
>Let's see:
>
>Let me order some movie for some exhorbitant price
>I'll wait 5 days or so for it to download.

Would it really take that long? It's likely thier server would have a
higher upload speed, so it would just be limited to your download
speed. My download speed is 8 times my upload speed, and it'll be
similar for most people. Get that download in 15 hours (1/8 of 5
days)?

> (Gee, Netflix is a 2 day turn
>via mail)
>
>The media people want you to not be able to send it to anyone and to
>delete automatically after X views or x number of days.
>
>Seems very few studios will allow this at all.
>
>I believe it's a publiicity stunt to raise cash.

--
104 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http/notstupid.laughingsquid.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Greg wrote:

>>As usual, you know very little about Replays. This is a copy of Replay
>>ichannels. Keep checking on this and let us know how they make out. LOL.
>
>
> I channels? What is that and when will I see it?
> Until RTV gets connected to a content provider you won't ever see anything that
> isn't coming down your regular TV cable.
> The Netflix deal will allow TiVo folks to stream anything that is in the DVD
> market.
> That is typically 4 weeks before the PPV folks get things and that is the
> current hangup with the deal.

Tell me more about the NEtflix deal

I currently get my NETFLIX, Play them into the RePlay, send them back
and then make a decision on what to do with the MPEG (Burn to DVD, burn
to Transfer DVD (first is burn as dvd, the second is burn as mpeg for
viewing on computers only) or save to HD for viewing and discard
(Default action)

But if there is a better deal..... I'm interested

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

>
> Tell me more about the NEtflix deal
>
> I currently get my NETFLIX, Play them into the RePlay, send them back
> and then make a decision on what to do with the MPEG (Burn to DVD, burn
> to Transfer DVD (first is burn as dvd, the second is burn as mpeg for
> viewing on computers only) or save to HD for viewing and discard
> (Default action)
>
> But if there is a better deal..... I'm interested

Seems like a tedious process. My friend simply copies every dvd he gets
and puts the original back in the mail the same day. They are very fast
so it costs like a $1 each.

Under the Tivo deal, you won't be able to make a copy and the unit will
automatically delete it after 1 or 2 showings or after X days even
unwatched. Because of the file sizes involved, it will either take
forever to d/l or they will send a bastardized version (ie: vcd
quality). Ready to sign up? Like I said, a publicity stunt.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

In article <sw%0d.1131$Qv5.458@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>,
John in Detroit <Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> I currently get my NETFLIX, Play them into the RePlay, send them back
> and then make a decision on what to do with the MPEG

Why not just dupe it to a read/write DVD of some flavor, then decide
what to do with it? If you don't like it, just rewrite the DVD.

It's faster than playing it real-time into the RTV, and much more
accurate to boot.

And, best of all, it's free to do once you have a Wintel box with a DVD
writer.

 

[Greg]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

As has been proven by everyone from Sam Colt to Bill Gates, it is not who had
the idea first, but who got it to market. TiVo already has a history of
partnering with a content provider and now they are taking it to another level.
RTV appears to being canibalized for it's patents and thrown to the dogs by
D&M. There is certainly no indication that they have interest in the future
standalone DVRs.

 

[Greg]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

I bet Hollywood will make them send in "standard" resolution so the movie will
be about a gig an hour. There is no reason you can't stream that down a decent
broadband connection in real time.
The only contention right now is copyright flags and release schedules. These
may end up on the PPV release dates (rental/sales are about a month earlier).
The fact that the principles are already identified and one (NetFlix) already
has a deal with Hollywood, makes this a lot more likely to happen that the
vaporware Tony D was talking about.
We were getting MP3 support too ... a year ago ... yeah right!
If RTV doesn't get it's "strategic partner" soon it will be a BetaMax.
Sony is a big company too but that didn't save Beta.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Greg wrote:

> I bet Hollywood will make them send in "standard" resolution so the movie will
> be about a gig an hour. There is no reason you can't stream that down a decent
> broadband connection in real time.

BS. Streaming of this sort is impossible. I can get 600k downloads via
cable, but have yet to find a site that streams crummy 3" media player
screens reliably. And most people don't have my d/l speed.

> The only contention right now is copyright flags and release schedules. These
> may end up on the PPV release dates (rental/sales are about a month earlier).
> The fact that the principles are already identified and one (NetFlix) already
> has a deal with Hollywood, makes this a lot more likely to happen that the
> vaporware Tony D was talking about.

Like I said, keep an eye on this and let us know when to get excited.

 

[Greg]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

>Under the Tivo deal, you won't be able to make a copy and the unit will
>automatically delete it after 1 or 2 showings or after X days even
>unwatched.

What keeps you from RTVing it via the A/V or RF jacks?


> they will send a bastardized version
You mean like "standard quality"?
That is about all a NTSC TV can "see" anyway.
From my RTV experience the better qualities are just wasted disk space.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Tony D <nospam@nospam.com> shaped the electrons to say:
>BS. Streaming of this sort is impossible. I can get 600k downloads via
>cable, but have yet to find a site that streams crummy 3" media player

If you only get 600Kbps download speeds from cable - you have a weak
cable broadband provider.

Most cable modem connections are at least 1.5Mbps, and around here
they're bumping to 3Mbps, and in some areas 6Mpbs and 10Mbps are
available for a higher fee.

I get 1.5Mbps/768Kbps DSL - and reliably 1.1Mbps download speeds.

The average broadband speeds are increasing, and most cable modem
services start at 1.5Mbps and go up from there. DSL is also getting
faster, Verizon is rolling out 3.0Mbps DSL widely.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http/www.megazone.org/> <URL:http/www.eyrie-productions.com/> Eris

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> shaped the electrons to say:
>The point was, Replay already started into and abandoned that market.
>Now comes Tivo, like they're doing something original.

This isn't new for TiVo either - they talked about this at least as
far back as 2001, before the Series2 even shipped. One of the
features they talked about for the networking features was downloading
video. When the S2s were first released TiVo also announced deals
with JellyVision, RealNetworks, and Radiance for content - with Real
and Radiance to provide video content via broadband.

But the bubble bursting change a lot of plans, including TiVo's, and
the network content concept was shelved for a while. It is just
coming back now, with a new content partner - and it isn't surprising
since Netflix has been talking about providing digital rentals, and
Mike Ramsay, TiVo's CEO, is also on the board of Netflix.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http/www.megazone.org/> <URL:http/www.eyrie-productions.com/> Eris

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Tony D <nospam@nospam.com> shaped the electrons to say:
>Let's see:

Yeah, a post full of FUD. No better than the 'RTV is going out of
business' posts you hate.

>Let me order some movie for some exhorbitant price

Have you seen any pricing? I haven't.

>I'll wait 5 days or so for it to download. (Gee, Netflix is a 2 day turn
>via mail)

Even if they downloaded 8.5GB, the max a dual layer DVD can hold, I
could download that in about 19hours at 1Mbps, and I actually average
about 1.1Mbps reliably, with 1.5Mbps max on my DSL. Around here cable
modems start at 3Mbps. Verizon is kicking DSL up to 3Mbps to
compete. One GB takes about 2 hours, 16 minutes to download for each
1Mbps download speed, so about 45 minutes at 3Mbps.

And the actual video content of a DVD, at full DVD quality, is much
less than 8.5GB

>The media people want you to not be able to send it to anyone and to
>delete automatically after X views or x number of days.

Both TiVo and RTV are adding these controls, and there is no concrete
connection between the two announcements. ReplayTV already has more
controls in their software against sharing and copying, they're just
never used - it requires the broadcaster to sent the flag to activate
it.

>Seems very few studios will allow this at all.

Pure FUD. It is all business, if the money is there and DRM can be
shown (and, unlike RTV, TiVo has FCC approval for their DRM system),
there is no reason for them NOT to do it. Revenue is revenue. People
also said online music stores would never be able to make deals with
record labels to download music - that was before Apple, Napster 2.0,
Sony, etc, all did it.

>I believe it's a publiicity stunt to raise cash.

I believe you'd spout anything to spread FUD.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http/www.megazone.org/> <URL:http/www.eyrie-productions.com/> Eris

 

[Greg]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

>BS. Streaming of this sort is impossible.

Not impossible, just not what we get from "3 meg" cable connections (you are
saying 600k).
The whole point of a DVR is that it doesn't have to be in real time. If you can
wait a day you can get it into your machine at "off peak" rates and it should
be cheap.

The other concern was preexisting contracts with people like HBO. That is only
money for NetFlix. If the RTV "strategic partner" was AOL/Time Warner/HBO a lot
of these concerns go away.
The point is, without a content provider, the DVR business is a buggy whip
company.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Tony D <nospam@nospam.com> shaped the electrons to say:
>Under the Tivo deal, you won't be able to make a copy and the unit will
>automatically delete it after 1 or 2 showings or after X days even

Funny that you have information that no one else has, since *NO*
details of the deal have been made public. You're talking out of your
ass again.

>unwatched. Because of the file sizes involved, it will either take
>forever to d/l or they will send a bastardized version (ie: vcd

Simply math shows that most broadband users could download even the
largest movie releases in less time than the post normally takes.
Even with your low-end 600Kbps download speed it is 33 hours for
8.5GB, and the video from a DVD is never even clost to that. Even you
should be able to download the average movie in under a day. People
with respectable broadband services could get them much faster.

You aren't going to stream DVD content today, maybe in a few
years. DVD has a maximum bitrate of 10Mbps, and most releases hover
in the 5-6Mbps area, so you'd need download speeds higher than that to
get ahead and buffer for bitrate spikes.

This is all presuming they just send the MPEG2 file from the DVD.
There are other solutions too - re-encoding into MPEG4 or VC9 would
preserve quality and greatly reduce the file size to transfer.

RTV could do the same thing, but first they'd need DRM before a studio
would agree to a deal.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http/www.megazone.org/> <URL:http/www.eyrie-productions.com/> Eris

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

In article <megazone.1095037170@sidehack.sat.gweep.net>,
newsREMOVE@THISmegazone.org (MegaZone) wrote:

> Even with your low-end 600Kbps download speed it is 33 hours for
> 8.5GB, and the video from a DVD is never even clost to that.

A friend of mine gets his stuff the next day from Netflix. He's near a
distribution center or something.

My guess is that if you're out in the boonies, where broadband doesn't
exist or is iffy, the postal service is your best bet.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

General Kireiko <douglas@panix.com> shaped the electrons to say:
>And they won't have anything you'll want to watch. Probelm is, most
>studios already sold Internet Rights to their films to Premium Cable
>Channels like StarzEncore and HBO. Those deals are in place for another
>four years. It's called ON-DEMAND.
>
>I didn't make this up - read it in an article somewhere.

I read the same, or a similar, article - and you left out the part
where TiVo/Netflix could still do this because there are multiple
licensing time windows and the existing licenses are for specific time
windows. The details of the licensing is also important. Some of the
licenses treat 'Internet' as downloads to a PC or other similar
device, not an appliance that feeds a TV. It is thought that it might
qualify as a PPV or VoD license.

It is up the the lawyers and business folks to work it out. And the
licenses are with each studio, so there would probably be different
restrictions - new releases from some, only PPV window for others,
etc.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http/www.megazone.org/> <URL:http/www.eyrie-productions.com/> Eris