Lebanon Considers Banning Blackberrys Too

[srasiroslayer]

WOW, i'm surprised this turned into a political forum.
I'll try to explain as much as possible what is happening there.
If you look at the patriot act or any other measure taken by any government to access it's citizen's information, it isn't any different. In these times, if the United States decides it wants to access all the data transmitted by a particular user using a BB within the US, it either makes a deal with RIM (and RIM will comply), or can request the user data stored from the servers( and RIM will comply). It's that easy (unless you think otherwise, feel free to elaborate).
In Lebanon, since the BB servers are not local, and the data is not accessible from the government, nor is there any form of understanding between the government and RIM, if any information is required about a suspect (terrorist, thief, murderer etc..), it has no mandate over RIM, so it cannot access the data that may put him in jail or make him innocent (either way).
I'm not expert in Saoudi Arabia or the UAE, but i believe the reasons are the same (maybe a bit more since there's much more censorship).
In my opinion, if they decide to ban the BB services in Lebanon, it will not affect anything since other companies (Nokia, Sony Ericsson, etc...) will benefit and close the gap. Plus, it will save the users some money since the BB services are three times more expensive than GPRS (RIM, takes 75% of the cost for licenses).

I hope that was technically fulfilling.
Cheers.

 

[irh_1974]

[citation][nom]sevyr[/nom]irhok...but you can't really prove any of the sides started it...ss78 is not lying, not at all, but your facts can also be justified. None of you are actual liers. It's just that you aren't seeing both sides of the story. Lebanon does not want to fight Israel. There is just a group of people in Lebanon who do. And they are a minority. The rest are people who just want to live their own lives in peace. C'mon!!! Lebanon never invaded Israel. Israel invaded Lebanon. Twice. And Lebanon kicked them out. Twice. Do you disagree?Idk about Israel, but they probably did not want to attack Lebanon anymore. The first time they attacked they got their asses kicked out and saw no need for another full scale war. Everyone in Lebanon was sure there wouldn't be another war. So don't blame either side. Blame the warmongers between all the Israeli and Lebanese citizens for the second war on Lebanese grounds.And just an FYI - there were many tourists including Americans, British, you name it in Lebanon during the invasion. That's very thoughtful of Israel huh? My brother was stuck there for a month. You know how terrifying it is?Now the issue that people don't see, is not the Israel/Lebanon war, but the Lebanese Civil War. Don't read biased articles. AND DONT GO TO WIKIPEDIA. WIKIPEDIA CAN BE EDITED BY ANYBODY. AND THE MODERATORS ON THERE MIGHT BE BIASED TOO. WHO KNOWS!!! But America has been trying to help Lebanon defeat the terrorist groups in their country. Lebanon has defeated one before...but now they are coming again...and all you care about is "they are to blame for the war!".God - i hate Politics.[/citation]
You have a fair point.
But at least I attempt to back up my point of view with links
Where are the links from the other point of view?
I have a fairly open mind and if someone can provide me with a fairly compelling arguement I may be swayed. But without anything more supportive than one person's say so, I remain unconvinced.
As regards wikipedia, I can't provide links to the hundreds of books on the subject and I would refer any doubts on the content of wikipedia to the numbered markers that refer to the original reference texts. But of course, I dont expect anyone to approach the middle east situation with an open mind, everyone is bias.

As far as there being a group of people within Lebanon, who do not represent Lebanon, who start things not in their name - they did a bang up job of co-ordinating with Egypt, Sudan, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Yemen in 1948 - all without the knowledge of the Lebanese authorities.

But provide me with counter arguement and will try to be open-minded.

 

[ss78]

irh I can't be bothered providing links. I did check my story but did not provide links. What I said about the PLO and Israel is true, there was a ceasefire in place in regards to the PLO and Israel in Lebanon and it had been observed at the time. But when an Israeli minister was attacked, they jumped to blame it on the PLO and it was found the Israeli Cabinet or the PM hid evidence that it wasn't the PLO. I did not say they never attacked them, there's a reason why it's called the PLO and not the Palestinian Do Nothing Organization.

As for your other links, irrelevant to the discussion we had made and it would turn this into a ridiculous debate where both sides might not be swayed. As for 1948 or whatever, these countries had barely gotten independence themselves, their armies didn't have much training and lacked experience. I think Israel had not yet been declared at the time the actual fighting began so they weren't actually attacking a country but a group who were already fighting another group. Also it is not like they sent their WHOLE armies, they probably sent divisions.

In either case, Lebanon's current grievances with Israel stemmed from the point I made previously. Israel did have allies in Lebanon too back then. Read up on it and stop bunching everything together because if you do then you do have to ask why Jews have the right to return to that land when Native Americans don't have their own country, neither do the Maori or Aborigines. And does this mean Palestinians have the right to return in a couple of years too? I guess so!

Now let's drop this crap. Saudis are negotiating with RIM so whatever solution they end up with will probably work for the other countries too.

 

[irh_1974]

[citation][nom]ss78[/nom]irh I can't be bothered[/citation]
That's about as far as I got before I realised you were just a troll
Discussion over

 

[ss78]

irh_1974

That's funny, didn't you bring up the political debate when it had nothing to do with the topic itself? I answered your question directly, you went off on a tangent. You need to figure out what a troll is, it's not so hard, just look in the mirror

I won't reply to trolls from now on

 

[kikireeki]

[citation][nom]irh_1974[/nom]http/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LebanonLebanon's record is pretty poor, 5 years after getting independance from France it attacks Israel. They get their asses handed to them in an appalling defeat. The so called government is either supporting terrorists who fire rockets into Israel, or is so blindly incompetent that it has no ability to deal with terrorist operating inside it's borders. The scary thing is the insistance on attacking an obviously more powerful country who respond in kind by bombing them back to the stone age.Someone just needs to say to them, "be a good neighbour, stop being an ass or next time Israel may just nuke you and have done with it" and no-one would give a shit because they have done nothing but be a beligerant tin-pot state since 1943.It's a big world, if you want to be in it you have to play nicely, otherwise all I have is an image of a small boy whacking a stick against the leg of a Marine. He will stand it for so long, then just give the kid a fat back-hander he won't forget in a hurry. Stop it, behave and we all just might get along... m'kay...[/citation]

How old are you my son? Didn't they teach you in school that Israelis occupied Palestine and a part of Lebanon, and not the opposite? watch some history documentaries if you were born yesterday, and do not post a ridiculous irrelevant comment full of lies!
and here is a good place to start:
http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EATEeKJcTA&feature=related
http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJoq8o0UAzA

 

[irh_1974]

[citation][nom]ss78[/nom]irh_1974That's funny, didn't you bring up the political debate when it had nothing to do with the topic itself? I answered your question directly, you went off on a tangent. You need to figure out what a troll is, it's not so hard, just look in the mirror I won't reply to trolls from now on[/citation]
Can't be bothered, that's as far as your debate went, talk to the hand.

 

[irh_1974]

[citation][nom]kikireeki[/nom]How old are you my son? Didn't they teach you in school that Israelis occupied Palestine and a part of Lebanon, and not the opposite? watch some history documentaries if you were born yesterday, and do not post a ridiculous irrelevant comment full of lies! and here is a good place to start:http/www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EA [...] re=relatedhttp/www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJoq8o0UAzA[/citation]
I'm not your son, and my post isn't full of lies, it's full of links. Where are your links? A youtube video? Good call.

 

[irh_1974]

I have heard so many versions of what is going on that differ with the recorded version of history.
One of the most farflung is the theory that Israel wants to expand its borders but doesn't want to be seen as the aggressor. To get round this it "sets up" it's neighbour. As soon as the world catches media attention of the neighbour firing rockets then they strike back, then occupying land, all in the name of self defence.
This is perfectly understandable and no-one would be surprised. But as it stands, proof and theory don't mix, history books record only one story and crackpot conspiracy theories need to stay on the more dodgy parts of the internet until someone can provide proof.

 

[goldenthunder]

Germany is the next on the list:
Germany's Federal Minister of Interior warns not to use BBs.
Since there is no access to the RIM servers Germany's politics might be disallowed to uses BBs. They need 'own definition of access standard' which RIM does not allow for.

German article

 

[irh_1974]

[citation][nom]goldenthunder[/nom]Germany is the next on the list:Germany's Federal Minister of Interior warns not to use BBs.Since there is no access to the RIM servers Germany's politics might be disallowed to uses BBs. They need 'own definition of access standard' which RIM does not allow for.German article[/citation]
Bandwagon anyone?

 

[kikireeki]

[citation][nom]irh_1974[/nom]I'm not your son, and my post isn't full of lies, it's full of links. Where are your links? A youtube video? Good call.[/citation]
Sure you are not!
So you suggest that a Youtube video full of visual evidences is not as reliable as a wikipedia bland text, now that is a nice call indeed!
And who told you that links = truth? just open your mind and eyes
and dig up the real story yourself, and do not mix up facts with viewpoints. "Palestine is an occupied land" this is an undisputed FACT, whether you like it or not! and this should be the base of any argument regarding this matter.

 

[gm0n3y]

FYI everyone, being anti-Muslim isn't RACIST, as Islam is not a 'race', its a religion.

 

[kikireeki]

[citation][nom]gm0n3y[/nom]FYI everyone, being anti-Muslim isn't RACIST, as Islam is not a 'race', its a religion.[/citation]
what about being anti-Jews?

 

[ss78]

The funny twist here is that Jews consider themselves a "race" as well as a "religion" so you're considered racist and a bigot either way. Quite a sneaky deal there eh! Another funny thing about this is being an anti-semite. Semites are considered Jews but they are also considered anyone from the Middle East. So a Middle Eastern person insulting Jews cannot really be anti-semitic being a semite. Of course ant-semitism is now being referred to anything you have against Israel, whether it be the country or the people. Very effective ploy.

 

[blurr91]

[citation][nom]jessedorland[/nom]Typical behavior of racist -- blame the Muslim, and Islam. European Union is also moving its employees from Blackberry to iPhone, and HTC. I guess Christian in Europe are banning as they banned Galeleo's theory.[/citation]

Muslim is a "race" now? That's news to me. Can you describe this "race" to me? What are the characteristics of this "race?"

 

[blurr91]

[citation][nom]TommySch[/nom]There is another way... Imperialism. Why do we even need to pay them for the oil when we can just take it for free?[/citation]

It's actually cheaper to buy oil on the open market than to invade, occupy, set up a government, hire the workers, maintain the society...etc, for our oil.

 

[blurr91]

[citation][nom]kikireeki[/nom]what about being anti-Jews?[/citation]

That would be racist because jewish is both a religion and an ethnicity.

 

[irh_1974]

[citation][nom]kikireeki[/nom]Sure you are not!So you suggest that a Youtube video full of visual evidences is not as reliable as a wikipedia bland text, now that is a nice call indeed!And who told you that links = truth? just open your mind and eyes and dig up the real story yourself, and do not mix up facts with viewpoints. "Palestine is an occupied land" this is an undisputed FACT, whether you like it or not! and this should be the base of any argument regarding this matter.[/citation]
Dont confuse my point with what is common knowledge.
For a start it is not Israels fault for being Israel, look no further than the allies at the end of WW2, they made a monumental screwup that caused 65 years of strife.
Secondly, since they got there they haven't been very good to the residents and it is a really screwed up place.
But the initial point was that Lebanon did not defend itself from attacks, it instigated, initiated, started - attacks against Israel.

If you think this is hokum and made up lies, how exactly did Israel get 7, count em, 7 other countries to attack them all at once and it be their fault too.

I really want an answer to this one, this isn't arguement, it is a genuine question. Consider it research and you seem to have all the answers so far.

How does Israel get attacked by 8 differant nations but it is their fault?

 

[kikireeki]

[citation][nom]blurr91[/nom]That would be racist because jewish is both a religion and an ethnicity.[/citation]

So a Jew can be a Muslim or Christian?