Need a little Cool Edit advice

G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I've recorded an air check that's behaving oddly. It's recorded in
Cool Edit 2000 and the problem., as best I can describe it, is that
the audio isn't in sequence. It goes along normally for a few seconds
and then I hear some audio that's sort of "from the future," after a
couple of more seconds of ordinary audio I get a gap, which is where
the "audio from the future" came from.

It's as if a gremlin has edited random sections and placed them a few
seconds earlier in the file. If you're listening to it it sounds like,
"And now we {Texas} go to Joe Blow in {} for that story." Where the
part in curly braces is placed in an earlier part of the file. This
happens hundreds or thousands of times in a 5 hour air check.

Now the computer crashed during the air check. But the crash happened
at the end of the recording. And the problem starts at the very
beginning of the recording, hours before the crash. As a consequence
of the crash the file was never saved. I know that Cool Edit 2000
records a temporary file in something like "raw" format and I've been
trying to recover from that, but I always get this odd time warp
stuff.

What I did was go in after the crash and rename the big temp file that
Cool Edit 2000 had made. Then I've been trying to open this file.

Does anyone know any arcane tricks for recovering the raw temp files
from Cool Edit 2000? Is my problem that I'm just not recovering the
file in the correct format or is this likely just how the audio is
now? Will a computer crash always cause something like this, even when
the beginning of the file should have been all right? Or is this
strange time warp stuff not even related to the crash?

Airchecking on Scullys was never like this!

Thanks for any advice
An Old Analog Guy (slowly adapting)
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Old Analog Guy" wrote ...
> I've recorded an air check that's behaving oddly. It's
> recorded in Cool Edit 2000 and the problem., as best I can
> describe it, is that the audio isn't in sequence. It goes along
> normally for a few seconds and then I hear some audio that's
> sort of "from the future," after a couple of more seconds of
> ordinary audio I get a gap, which is where the "audio from
> the future" came from.
>
> It's as if a gremlin has edited random sections and placed
> them a few seconds earlier in the file. If you're listening to
> it it sounds like, "And now we {Texas} go to Joe Blow in
> {} for that story." Where the part in curly braces is placed
> in an earlier part of the file. This happens hundreds or thousands
> of times in a 5 hour air check.
>
> Now the computer crashed during the air check. But the
> crash happened at the end of the recording. And the problem
> starts at the very beginning of the recording, hours before the
> crash. As a consequence of the crash the file was never saved.

Since files are recorded sector-by-sector in whatever empty
space can be found at the moment of writing, it seems very
probable that your file is not only fragmented by location, but
the sequence of the sectors is scrambled. You are lucky that
you have anything at all. Of course you can re-assemble the
out-of-sequence pieces if it is worth the effort.

Why did the computer crash in the middle of the recording?
You weren't using it for something else concurrently? Note
also that if you are recording long sequences, it is better to
cut them off after a period (30 or 60 minutes at least) to
avoid exactly the kind of problem you are seeing. Many of
us would also use a de-fragmented, dedicated drive to write
such long-form recordings.

> I know that Cool Edit 2000 records a temporary file in
> something like "raw" format and I've been trying to recover
> from that, but I always get this odd time warp stuff.
>
> What I did was go in after the crash and rename the big temp
> file that Cool Edit 2000 had made. Then I've been trying to
> open this file.
>
> Does anyone know any arcane tricks for recovering the raw
> temp files from Cool Edit 2000? Is my problem that I'm just
> not recovering the file in the correct format or is this likely
> just how the audio is now?

The problem appears that you are not recovering the file in
the right sequence. When the recovery routine goes in and
identifies the apparently orphan sectors, there is no record of
what order they were used (until the file is properly closed).

> Will a computer crash always cause something like this,

If the computer really "crashed" I think you are extraordinarly
lucky to have recovered what you have. I would expect to lose
everything in an open file (including ongoing recordings).

> even when the beginning of the file should have been all right?

A file is never really properly saved until it is closed. That
is how modern computer operating systems work to optimize
disk space.

> Or is this strange time warp stuff not even related to the crash?

I believe you are correct in thinking that the scrambled file was
caused by the crash.

> Airchecking on Scullys was never like this!

Scullys (and Ampexes, et. al.) were 1000x less complex than
the cheapest computer and did only one thing at a time.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Richard Crowley" <rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote in message
news:10llefl9hafcif8@corp.supernews.com...
> "Old Analog Guy" wrote ...
> > I've recorded an air check that's behaving oddly. It's
> > recorded in Cool Edit 2000 and the problem., as best I can
> > describe it, is that the audio isn't in sequence. It goes along
> > normally for a few seconds and then I hear some audio that's
> > sort of "from the future," after a couple of more seconds of
> > ordinary audio I get a gap, which is where the "audio from
> > the future" came from.
> >
> > It's as if a gremlin has edited random sections and placed
> > them a few seconds earlier in the file. If you're listening to
> > it it sounds like, "And now we {Texas} go to Joe Blow in
> > {} for that story." Where the part in curly braces is placed
> > in an earlier part of the file. This happens hundreds or thousands
> > of times in a 5 hour air check.
> >
> > Now the computer crashed during the air check. But the
> > crash happened at the end of the recording. And the problem
> > starts at the very beginning of the recording, hours before the
> > crash. As a consequence of the crash the file was never saved.
>
> Since files are recorded sector-by-sector in whatever empty
> space can be found at the moment of writing, it seems very
> probable that your file is not only fragmented by location, but
> the sequence of the sectors is scrambled. You are lucky that
> you have anything at all. Of course you can re-assemble the
> out-of-sequence pieces if it is worth the effort.
>
> Why did the computer crash in the middle of the recording?
> You weren't using it for something else concurrently? Note
> also that if you are recording long sequences, it is better to
> cut them off after a period (30 or 60 minutes at least) to
> avoid exactly the kind of problem you are seeing. Many of
> us would also use a de-fragmented, dedicated drive to write
> such long-form recordings.
>
> > I know that Cool Edit 2000 records a temporary file in
> > something like "raw" format and I've been trying to recover
> > from that, but I always get this odd time warp stuff.
> >
> > What I did was go in after the crash and rename the big temp
> > file that Cool Edit 2000 had made. Then I've been trying to
> > open this file.
> >
> > Does anyone know any arcane tricks for recovering the raw
> > temp files from Cool Edit 2000? Is my problem that I'm just
> > not recovering the file in the correct format or is this likely
> > just how the audio is now?
>
> The problem appears that you are not recovering the file in
> the right sequence. When the recovery routine goes in and
> identifies the apparently orphan sectors, there is no record of
> what order they were used (until the file is properly closed).
>
> > Will a computer crash always cause something like this,
>
> If the computer really "crashed" I think you are extraordinarly
> lucky to have recovered what you have. I would expect to lose
> everything in an open file (including ongoing recordings).
>
> > even when the beginning of the file should have been all right?
>
> A file is never really properly saved until it is closed. That
> is how modern computer operating systems work to optimize
> disk space.
>
> > Or is this strange time warp stuff not even related to the crash?
>
> I believe you are correct in thinking that the scrambled file was
> caused by the crash.
>
> > Airchecking on Scullys was never like this!
>
> Scullys (and Ampexes, et. al.) were 1000x less complex than
> the cheapest computer and did only one thing at a time.
>
>

I have had a few (very rare) instances of my audio computer crashing, while
recording with Cool Edit Pro. Most of those instances were caused by power
outages IIRC. In all cases, upon reboot and launch of CEP, I got a screen
saying, in effect, "A previous session was interrupted. Would you like to
pick up where you left off?" I've never lost anything. I don't know about
CE2000, but I think it has the same recovery process. However, in light of
the evidence, Richard's speculation and cautions above seem reasonable.

From another old analogue guy who has no desire to go back. Anybody need a
Scully 280 mono with neo-pilot head in a roll-around?

Steve King
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Old Analog Guy wrote:

> I've recorded an air check that's behaving oddly. It's recorded in
> Cool Edit 2000 and the problem., as best I can describe it, is that
> the audio isn't in sequence. It goes along normally for a few seconds
> and then I hear some audio that's sort of "from the future," after a
> couple of more seconds of ordinary audio I get a gap, which is where
> the "audio from the future" came from.
>
> It's as if a gremlin has edited random sections and placed them a few
> seconds earlier in the file. If you're listening to it it sounds like,
> "And now we {Texas} go to Joe Blow in {} for that story." Where the
> part in curly braces is placed in an earlier part of the file. This
> happens hundreds or thousands of times in a 5 hour air check.
>
> Now the computer crashed during the air check. But the crash happened
> at the end of the recording. And the problem starts at the very
> beginning of the recording, hours before the crash. As a consequence
> of the crash the file was never saved. I know that Cool Edit 2000
> records a temporary file in something like "raw" format and I've been
> trying to recover from that, but I always get this odd time warp
> stuff.
>
> What I did was go in after the crash and rename the big temp file that
> Cool Edit 2000 had made. Then I've been trying to open this file.
>
> Does anyone know any arcane tricks for recovering the raw temp files
> from Cool Edit 2000? Is my problem that I'm just not recovering the
> file in the correct format or is this likely just how the audio is
> now? Will a computer crash always cause something like this, even when
> the beginning of the file should have been all right? Or is this
> strange time warp stuff not even related to the crash?
>
> Airchecking on Scullys was never like this!
>
> Thanks for any advice
> An Old Analog Guy (slowly adapting)
Which version of Windows are you using? I had CoolEdit 2000 1.1 on a
Win98 PC and if it crashed, that's it. All was gone. When I upgraded my
DAW, also running CoolEdit 2K 1.1, but now on WinXP, if my machine
crashed, the temp file was always fully recovered.

CD
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <10llefl9hafcif8@corp.supernews.com> rcrowley7@xprt.net writes:

> Scullys (and Ampexes, et. al.) were 1000x less complex than
> the cheapest computer and did only one thing at a time.

Thank goodness!

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Old Analog Guy <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message news:<s89ll09svj6m5ikem1ag048rlrri64nb8o@4ax.com>...
> I've recorded an air check that's behaving oddly. It's recorded in
> Cool Edit 2000 and the problem., as best I can describe it, is that
> the audio isn't in sequence. It goes along normally for a few seconds
> and then I hear some audio that's sort of "from the future," after a
> couple of more seconds of ordinary audio I get a gap, which is where
> the "audio from the future" came from.
>
> It's as if a gremlin has edited random sections and placed them a few
> seconds earlier in the file. If you're listening to it it sounds like,
> "And now we {Texas} go to Joe Blow in {} for that story." Where the
> part in curly braces is placed in an earlier part of the file. This
> happens hundreds or thousands of times in a 5 hour air check.
>
> Now the computer crashed during the air check. But the crash happened
> at the end of the recording. And the problem starts at the very
> beginning of the recording, hours before the crash. As a consequence
> of the crash the file was never saved. I know that Cool Edit 2000
> records a temporary file in something like "raw" format and I've been
> trying to recover from that, but I always get this odd time warp
> stuff.
>
> What I did was go in after the crash and rename the big temp file that
> Cool Edit 2000 had made. Then I've been trying to open this file.
>
> Does anyone know any arcane tricks for recovering the raw temp files
> from Cool Edit 2000? Is my problem that I'm just not recovering the
> file in the correct format or is this likely just how the audio is
> now? Will a computer crash always cause something like this, even when
> the beginning of the file should have been all right? Or is this
> strange time warp stuff not even related to the crash?
>
> Airchecking on Scullys was never like this!
>
> Thanks for any advice
> An Old Analog Guy (slowly adapting)

Perhaps you could

1. Close CE2
2. copy the (hopefully unchanged) temp file back to it's original name
3. open CE2 and see if it offers to continue a session. Perhaps it
will have enough information to solve your problem.

Fran
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Old Analog Guy <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>I've recorded an air check that's behaving oddly. It's recorded in
>Cool Edit 2000 and the problem., as best I can describe it, is that
>the audio isn't in sequence. It goes along normally for a few seconds
>and then I hear some audio that's sort of "from the future," after a
>couple of more seconds of ordinary audio I get a gap, which is where
>the "audio from the future" came from.

I use Adobe Audition aka CE pro rather than CE 2000 but I assume
that there aren't much differences here...
This is pretty much normal for the temporary file that CE uses when
_editing_ a recording. CE saves pointers to the parts of the file
while working on it.

>Now the computer crashed during the air check. But the crash happened
>at the end of the recording. And the problem starts at the very
>beginning of the recording, hours before the crash. As a consequence
>of the crash the file was never saved. I know that Cool Edit 2000
>records a temporary file in something like "raw" format and I've been
>trying to recover from that, but I always get this odd time warp
>stuff.

When you restarted the computer, CE normally should detect an existing
temporary file and then ask whether you want to continue now, later
or never. When you decide to continue now and the save the work the
temporary file gets sorted while copying to the place you name for
saving.

>Does anyone know any arcane tricks for recovering the raw temp files
>from Cool Edit 2000?

Maybe you should put CE into the state it was in while the system
crashed. Unfortunately I don't know how to get there.

>Is my problem that I'm just not recovering the
>file in the correct format or is this likely just how the audio is
>now? Will a computer crash always cause something like this, even when
>the beginning of the file should have been all right? Or is this
>strange time warp stuff not even related to the crash?

A long time ago while using CoolEdit95 I had a similar "unsorted"
file when the disk filled up and more and more space fragments got
used. At that time I thought that CE95 tried to minimize movements
of the mechanics during time critical jobs and sorted the file at
the time of saving. Maybe this holds still today and you suffered
from disk fragmentation, system crash and not continuing the session.

Sorry for not having better news,
Norbert
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 06:34:43 -0700, "Richard Crowley"
<rcrowley7@xprt.net> wrote:

>....
>If the computer really "crashed" I think you are extraordinarly
>lucky to have recovered what you have. I would expect to lose
>everything in an open file (including ongoing recordings).
>....
>I believe you are correct in thinking that the scrambled file was
>caused by the crash.

I think you're right. Oh well, I guess I can save the screwed up audio
and hope I never actually need it. Thanks for the information.

>> Airchecking on Scullys was never like this!
>
>Scullys (and Ampexes, et. al.) were 1000x less complex than
>the cheapest computer and did only one thing at a time.

Yeah, but they did it so well!
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 09:53:23 -0500, "Steve King"
<steve@REMOVETHISSPAMBLOCKsteveking.net> wrote:

>....
>From another old analogue guy who has no desire to go back. Anybody need a
>Scully 280 mono with neo-pilot head in a roll-around?

If I could find a place in the apartment to put it I might! I was
offered a stereo Scully for the taking but couldn't find a place to
put it.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:31:54 +0200, Norbert Hahn <me@privacy.net>
wrote:

>....
>Maybe you should put CE into the state it was in while the system
>crashed. Unfortunately I don't know how to get there.
>....

Yeah, I think it's a lost cause now. I'll have to de-frag before the
next air check and hope this doesn't happen again.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 29 Sep 2004 17:36:14 -0700, fran.guidry@gmail.com (Francis Guidry)
wrote:

>....
>Perhaps you could
>
>1. Close CE2
>2. copy the (hopefully unchanged) temp file back to it's original name
>3. open CE2 and see if it offers to continue a session. Perhaps it
>will have enough information to solve your problem.

Unfortunately, by now it's changed. But I'll remember your suggestion
for the next crash. I'm sure there will be a next crash, I just hope
it's far in the future.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 13:20:20 -0400, Codifus <codifus@optonline.net>
wrote:

>> ....
>Which version of Windows are you using? I had CoolEdit 2000 1.1 on a
>Win98 PC and if it crashed, that's it. All was gone.

That's exactly what I have. Oh well, thanks for the confirmation.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Old Analog Guy" <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
news:aoonl01e9epidkuo16hfb257kre3d7ugkh@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 18:31:54 +0200, Norbert Hahn <me@privacy.net>
> wrote:
>
> >....
> >Maybe you should put CE into the state it was in while the system
> >crashed. Unfortunately I don't know how to get there.
> >....
>
> Yeah, I think it's a lost cause now. I'll have to de-frag before the
> next air check and hope this doesn't happen again.

On tip that I follow is to keep the free space defragged before starting a
long recording. It doesn't guarantee that the temp file won't get fragmented
while writing, but it usually doesn't.

Sean
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Old Analog Guy wrote:

> I've recorded an air check that's behaving oddly. It's recorded in
> Cool Edit 2000 and the problem., as best I can describe it, is that
> the audio isn't in sequence. It goes along normally for a few seconds
> and then I hear some audio that's sort of "from the future," after a
> couple of more seconds of ordinary audio I get a gap, which is where
> the "audio from the future" came from.

> It's as if a gremlin has edited random sections and placed them a few
> seconds earlier in the file. If you're listening to it it sounds like,
> "And now we {Texas} go to Joe Blow in {} for that story." Where the
> part in curly braces is placed in an earlier part of the file. This
> happens hundreds or thousands of times in a 5 hour air check.

5 hours ... hmm, did you try to record more than 4 gigabytes of audio?

> Now the computer crashed during the air check. But the crash happened
> at the end of the recording. And the problem starts at the very
> beginning of the recording, hours before the crash.

If so, then it is because new audio was dumped at the start of the file
once the block addressing started to wrap around because
offset-adressing becomes a modulo function due to numeric overflow.

> As a consequence
> of the crash the file was never saved. I know that Cool Edit 2000
> records a temporary file in something like "raw" format and I've been
> trying to recover from that, but I always get this odd time warp
> stuff.

Until disproven I assume that the file is larger than 4 gigabytes.

> What I did was go in after the crash and rename the big temp file that
> Cool Edit 2000 had made. Then I've been trying to open this file.

> Does anyone know any arcane tricks for recovering the raw temp files
> from Cool Edit 2000?

IF you can find some way of splitting it then perhaps you can use it IF
it is just written sequentially and the apparant chaos in the file is
just that: apparent, i.e. happens on read and didn't happen on write.

> Is my problem that I'm just not recovering the
> file in the correct format or is this likely just how the audio is
> now? Will a computer crash always cause something like this, even when
> the beginning of the file should have been all right? Or is this
> strange time warp stuff not even related to the crash?

Cool Edit will stop working correctly if the file size exceeds 4 GB's as
will the OS it was written for and certainly the FAT32 file system. NTFS
is capable of 64 Terabytes rather than 4 gigabytes, but that doesn't
change the internal limitations of the math in the software in question.

> Airchecking on Scullys was never like this!

Finding some way of splitting the file may remedy it or at least salvage
the first 4 GB's. But you are up against a basic limitation of file
system, OS and software. I can't recall just when behaviour was modified
so that a new time file would be written well ahead of reaching 4 GB's
..... i.e. at 4000 megabytes. IF the temp file is less than 4 GB, then it
is a simple "open as" however it was you recorded it, and there will be
another tempfile with the rest of the recording.

That said, last time I managed to exceed 4 GB's the file was obviously
lost and I didn't try bothering with the temp-files, it was just the
nights classical FM and not an unbearable loss.

> Thanks for any advice

You could try the open as menu, there you can specify how a file should
be assumed to be. Press F1 for help .... O;-)

> An Old Analog Guy (slowly adapting)

32 kHz sampling frequency is your friend for long recordings .... O;-)


Kind regards

Peter Larsen


--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
C Audio 1
A Audio 0
C Audio 3
A Audio 0
T Audio 1
Quabbe Audio 1
A Audio 1
Z Audio 1
K Audio 2
A Audio 1
B Audio 4
B Audio 6
B Audio 5
B Audio 4
L Audio 2
F Audio 10
M Audio 3
B Audio 2
S Audio 11
J Audio 2

ASK THE COMMUNITY