New Sony Website Jabs At Microsoft's Kinect

[Maxor127]

[citation][nom]tekk236[/nom]From what I've been hearing from the recent PAX convention...Move was very sluggish, jerk and unintuitive to play testers. Kinect was much more fluid, though it also nearly resulted in a few people getting knocked out. As with any motion sensing console...someone gets knocked in the face.[/citation]
I heard the complete opposite on G4.

Anyways, I agree with Sony. A motion controller is necessary for most games. Sony already did the Kinect with the EyeToy. I see Move being a Wii clone, and Kinect basically being an EyeToy and playing family/party games and that's about it.

 

[gogogadgetliver]

[citation][nom]Maxor127[/nom] Sony already did the Kinect with the EyeToy. I see Move being a Wii clone, and Kinect basically being an EyeToy and playing family/party games and that's about it.[/citation]

Why on earth do people keep thinking this thing is like the eye toy. You do realize the Kinect webcam is NOT involved in any part of the body recognition right? This is NOT an advanced EyeToy.

You're right about the sluggishness though: It's gone. Early versions of the software may have had this but it's very snappy now.

 

[badaxe2]

[citation][nom]theshonen8899[/nom]As much as I love my PS3, I hate it when companies outright bash each other. I remember listening to an interview earlier about the Playstation Move where Kevin Butler was criticizing the Wiimote for it's inaccurate motion sensor. How ironic that one would insult someone they were directly copying.[/citation]
[citation][nom]theshonen8899[/nom]As much as I love my PS3, I hate it when companies outright bash each other. I remember listening to an interview earlier about the Playstation Move where Kevin Butler was criticizing the Wiimote for it's inaccurate motion sensor. How ironic that one would insult someone they were directly copying.[/citation]


Microsoft's been bashing Sony ever since the PS3 launched, especially when it comes to bragging about install base/sales (NA only, and with a year head start lol) whenever they're leading NDP. Sony isn't the only hypocrite here. The best last winter-

When asked about the PlayStation 3 Slim and whether Microsoft would ever consider such a redesign for its console, Greenberg said, "We feel great about the hardware that we have in the market today and our focus has been on great bundle and doing things like the holiday bundle, and not on going back to the drawing board on a console."

http/xbox360.ign.com/articles/105/1054276p1.html

Oh, so that's why they've been fighting RRoD for four years....and ultimately (you guessed it) released an Xbox 360 Slim. They've been going back to the drawing board ever since the 360 launched. Why? Because they rushed it to get a lead on Sony, which is the only reason they're still leading anywhere in the first place.

The other thing is, when the PS3 launched it included everything originally that Microsoft has been adding on, usually proprietary and over priced. Sony also had the basic concept for Kinect almost 10 years ago with the Eye Toy.

 

[Vladislaus]

[citation][nom]i7Rocks[/nom]Yes I was refering to the eyetoy, which yes is exactly like kinect, just because the tech in kinect is way better doesn't mean it is a new idea. Have you read anything about the move? if you google playstation move body tracking you will see plenty of articles and demos of it, not sure why you think it doesn't have it as it has since day 1. lol no sun light? have you ever heard of electricity? light bulbs?PSeye works fine in the dark, actually works better in low light as it is easier to pick up the orb.[/citation]

Dear lord, since when does gestures have to do with full body tracking? Also the demos you are talking about was demoed long after project natal was showcased, and I'm still waiting for a single title for the PS3 that uses this tech.

Yes I've heard of electricity, I'm an electrical engineer. But in that game I have trouble playing it with the room lights turned on. The camera has difficulty identifying the cards, and some times just refuses to do it. It only works properly when I used a halogen lamp. It's not a camera problem because I tested it with the camera of a friend of mine and the result is the same.

 

[Vladislaus]

[citation][nom]gogogadgetliver[/nom]It's not in the slightest bit like Kinect. You seem to think the kinect sees through its webcam. It does not.[/citation]

Well it does use it's webcam, but i think it's just for facial recognition.

 

[Vladislaus]

[citation][nom]badaxe2[/nom]Why? Because they rushed it to get a lead on Sony, which is the only reason they're still leading anywhere in the first place.[/citation]The Wii was the last console to launch yet it's the console with more sales. The Sega Dreamcast appeared long before the PS2 yet it was beaten by it. Just because a console was launched first doesn't guarantee them success against the competition.
[citation][nom]badaxe2[/nom]The other thing is, when the PS3 launched it included everything originally that Microsoft has been adding on, usually proprietary and over priced.[/citation] Which accessories are you talking about? When the PS3 was launched it was way more expensive than the xbox360 and that alone gave victory to microsoft. Sony wanted to do an all-round device and that was their undoing, only recently are they making money on the ps3 hardware sales. Microsoft was clever it was able to build a cheaper console make profit for the hardware and still make the console powerful enough to compete and sometimes beat against it's competitors.

 

[Vladislaus]

[citation][nom]badaxe2[/nom]Sony also had the basic concept for Kinect almost 10 years ago with the Eye Toy.[/citation]The eyetoy and the ps move are a simple webcam just like those we use on computers. This is why the eye toy only supported gestures and colors. The same problem applies to the ps eye. The camera can't see in 3d so there's no 3d data for the console to process. So the ps eye is limited to edge detection, color tracking, face mapping, facial recognition and head tracking. The Kinect uses a depth sensor to see in 3d.

 

[bv90andy]

It's a different market. Buttons for casual and hardcore gamers and mims for grandpa.

 

[i7Rocks]

[citation][nom]Vladislaus[/nom]Dear lord, since when does gestures have to do with full body tracking? Also the demos you are talking about was demoed long after project natal was showcased, and I'm still waiting for a single title for the PS3 that uses this tech.Yes I've heard of electricity, I'm an electrical engineer. But in that game I have trouble playing it with the room lights turned on. The camera has difficulty identifying the cards, and some times just refuses to do it. It only works properly when I used a halogen lamp. It's not a camera problem because I tested it with the camera of a friend of mine and the result is the same.[/citation]


Really? you're still waiting for it? really? considering move isn't even out yet I think we all are. and the rest of what you said has to do with the old eyetoy and is irrelevant to how the move will work.

 

[gogogadgetliver]

[citation][nom]Vladislaus[/nom]Well it does use it's webcam, but i think it's just for facial recognition.[/citation]

Correct.

It will use the laser and 3d sensor + software to determine where the head is then use the webcam image of that area for facial recognition.

 

[i7Rocks]

[citation][nom]gogogadgetliver[/nom]Why on earth do people keep thinking this thing is like the eye toy. You do realize the Kinect webcam is NOT involved in any part of the body recognition right? This is NOT an advanced EyeToy.You're right about the sluggishness though: It's gone. Early versions of the software may have had this but it's very snappy now.[/citation]

I think you are missing the point entirely, what we are saying is the idea of the kinect has been done, its just now using better tech. You guys talk like kinect is some revolutionary idea but it isn't, its the same idea as the eyetoy only with better technlogy behind it. Name 1 game coming out for Kinect that you are excited for. Its made for kids and family gaming, which is fine but not what I am looking for and I'm not buying one so i can wave my hands in the air to navigate menus, that is just dumb.

 

[gogogadgetliver]

[citation][nom]i7Rocks[/nom]I think you are missing the point entirely, what we are saying is the idea of the kinect has been done, its just now using better tech. You guys talk like kinect is some revolutionary idea but it isn't, its the same idea as the eyetoy only with better technlogy behind it.[/citation]

If you think this is merely evolutionary from the eyetoy then you have no respect for the difficulty of the computing task being accomplished here. A lack of respect tells me you have a lack of understanding. It's all good. Lets just chalk it up to differing opinions then. I consider it quite revolutionary.

[Citation] Name 1 game coming out for Kinect that you are excited for. Its made for kids and family gaming, which is fine but not what I am looking for and I'm not buying one so i can wave my hands in the air to navigate menus, that is just dumb.[/citation]

Ok, I'll name a minigame within Kinect Sports. Table tennis. It's so immersive you start thinking you have a paddle in your hand. The controller is accurate enough to let you put full control and spin on the ball. Very much looking forward to playing doubles with the Mrs. and another couple over the 'net.

As for navigating menus: it's "minority report-ish" for sure but I usually find myself giving voice commands as it's faster. "Xbox Kinect Sports"...ding!

 

[i7Rocks]

[citation][nom]gogogadgetliver[/nom]If you think this is merely evolutionary from the eyetoy then you have no respect for the difficulty of the computing task being accomplished here. A lack of respect tells me you have a lack of understanding. It's all good. Lets just chalk it up to differing opinions then. I consider it quite revolutionary.[Citation] Name 1 game coming out for Kinect that you are excited for. Its made for kids and family gaming, which is fine but not what I am looking for and I'm not buying one so i can wave my hands in the air to navigate menus, that is just dumb.[/citation]Ok, I'll name a minigame within Kinect Sports. Table tennis. It's so immersive you start thinking you have a paddle in your hand. The controller is accurate enough to let you put full control and spin on the ball. Very much looking forward to playing doubles with the Mrs. and another couple over the 'net.As for navigating menus: it's "minority report-ish" for sure but I usually find myself giving voice commands as it's faster. "Xbox Kinect Sports"...ding![/citation]

I have total respect for the TECHNOLOGY kinect uses, but the IDEA however is not new. table tennis? really? wow, yeah I can't wait to play virtual table tennis, oh boy! lmao, pathetic. If your idea of an immersive out of this world experience is table tennis you need to get out more, I will stick to the real thing when it comes to sports and games like this. PS> move has a table tennis game too, looks way way way better, better graphics, better control, still not interested but like I said Playstation is doing it right they have the best of both worlds.

 

[gogogadgetliver]

It's interesting that you criticize a game that you have never seen, know nothing about, and have never played. I'm going to say your opinion is not informed ok?

Yet here I am, someone who has actually played this thing in the wild and I'm impressed. I certainly don't think it will be the best game available at release nor is it really the best game available right now (just the best of those that appeal to me). That said - there is no getting around it...the sucker is fun! The thing is incredibly immersive. You play for an hour then go to highfive your partner...and you find you're hesitant to highfive with your paddle hand even though it's empty.

And as for some "hardcore" type of argument...sorry little kiddies but I don't consider ANYTHING on the Xbox or Playstation to be hardcore. They are all varying degrees of casual.

 

[gogogadgetliver]

...and please don't get butthurt and bristle into an argument because I said you were uninformed. You really are and it's not a bad thing...just is what it is.

I'm trying to share as much honest info as I can within the realm of my neighbors NDA. I didn't really come here intending to debate..just share stuff with my fellow gamers.

I think people are really going to dig Kinect. We can blah blah about the technology, games,etc but there is one word I'll sum it up as: FUN.

 

[i7Rocks]

Its really funny how you assume you are the only person on earth that has played kinect. I know a few people who have played, their opinion is that its not all that fun, but thats what it all comes down to isn't it? People's idea of what is fun varies from person to person. No I haven't played ping pong on kinect but I can tell you right now I will find it more fun to bust out my real table and play. Do you know why the wii is so overlly popular? because it is fun, it is fun for kids, grandparents, and families to get involved in gaming without the steep learning curve. But how many hardcore gamers do I know that actually play their wii? none. which is my point with kinect, yes it is fun for the non-gamers aka casual crowd but for me? no.

your comment on hardcore games and consoles only being "varying degrees of casual" makes you look like a prick. There is a well established line for all games as to what is considered casual and hardcore games. It is used to categorize games, not to say "I'm so hardcore I only play PC games"

I think the move is almost in the same "casual" boat however they have stated several times they will be bringing move controls into more hardcore games and not just casual ones, which is why move intrigues me more, socom 4 looks fantastic with move and so does killzone 3. Its just a waiting game at this point but right now playstation looks like it truely can do it all.

 

[gogogadgetliver]

Yeah I'll take "I know a few people who have played" as "you haven't played".

You're a prick too but this is the intarwebs so I'll forgive you if you'll forgive me and we can move on. Seriously..not my intent to fight, just trying to share stuff with my gamers (try asking instead of bickering...I'll answer anything I'm allowed)

I've played the snot out of this thing...and again it's FUN. funfunfun.

I'm also a hardcore gamer (35+hrs week typical) so go figure. Here's a little secret: Hardcore gamers like casual games too. A good game is a good game. We all appreciated say "Braid" right?

So I'm not really sure of your hardcore/casual definition (it's subjective so whatever it is...you're right) but would you consider a non-kiddie boxing game like Fight Night to be casual? I've not heard plans but man that sounds like a killer app for Kinect.

I also hope you're not mistaking my enthusiasm for some sort of fanboyism. I'm more PC guy than Xbox and I was just as skeptical as everyone here (will it have lag? will games be fun? etc) but I'm sold on the Kinect after experiencing it. MSFT is gonna sell a bajillion of these things.

 

[i7Rocks]

You can take it for what I said, I have friends who have played it and they weren't impressed. they said the tech was ok but the games sucked.

Again, I am glad you think it is fun, I am sure I would have fun playing some games on there as well. But its not for me, that is all I have been trying to get across, I think the move is a better way to go as i can do some of the things kinect can and the wii can plus everything else.

No one is saying you can only like one kind of game, that is moronic of you to assume. I am saying I am not a fan of casual games, they are gimicky, cheap, and only fun for about a day. Some are good yes, do any of the kinect games interest me? no.

oh and yet again, there is already a fighting game for Move that uses full body capture and replicates all of your exact movements 1 to 1 in the game, so again I ask what is so different between that and kinect?

 

[MajorUhlar]

Don't the Japanese still do Whaling every year? Weird that "saving the whales important" would make it into a Sony commercial. I expect their Japan market commercial is vastly different.