Photography: Artist vs technician

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uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com wrote:

> I have formulated my arguments regarding this quite some time ago,
> quite independently of Dr. Scruton. That he makes virtually the same
> arguments is telling...

As in "The degree to which a man is intelligent depends on how much he
agrees with you?"

Try thinking for yourself. You're clearly not doing so now.

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Employment IN philosophy is tough to find. Many philo majors end up in
the computer industry and as writers.

I was thinking about bringing out a line of philosopher action
figures...

....but all I could think of was:

The Kant action figure: watch take a walk at 3pm precisely!
Watch him go to bed and take off his hat!

Or, the Plato action figure:

Watch Plato play with the 'handsome youths' of Athens!

How about the Socrates action figure:

See Socrates get drunk....



Paul Bielec wrote:
> Alan Browne wrote:
> > uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >> I am a philosophy major, after all
> >
> >
> > Wow!
> >
> > Here most philosophy majors end up being artists for the government.
> >
> > They draw unemployment!
>
> ROTFL
> Back at university, in one issue of the student paper there was a map of
> the campus. Philosophy was named "unemployment factory"...
> Yes, philosophy is nice, but making your living out of it...I wouldn't try.
> On the other hand, fine arts academies teach photography.
 
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uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com wrote:

> You can find my arguments dating back several years scattered about the
> internet, and I did not get Scruton's book or read it until last month.
> He puts forward much of the same argument, but with a great deal more
> detail and a different emphasis.

Just because you may find a pool of argument on the internet or in a
book or three in favour does not make it the truth. You can try
actively searching out books with the opposing view as well and
challenge yourself, instead of seeking idealogical supports.

There are books and internet arguments that "factually" document
extraterrestrial intelligence visiting earth and taking people off for
"probing". That doesn't make those arguments any more true than yours
or Mr. Scruton's.

Cheers,
Alan.



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uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com wrote:

> Scruton makes the same argument, essentially. You don't understand. The
> fact that you don't understand in no way makes me wrong.

The fact that you believe your ill founded notion and/or that of Scruton
does not make either of you right.

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It was joke, son, a joke....

Alan Browne wrote:
> uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
> > How about the Socrates action figure:
> >
> > See Socrates get drunk....
>
>
> Didn't take any marketing classes either, did you?
>
>
>
> --
> -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
> -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
> -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
> -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
 
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No, some of them are tirades against the stupidity of Kodak...and the
zonazis...

Alan Browne wrote:
> uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > It was joke, son, a joke....
>
>
> Like all of your posts?
>
> --
> -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
> -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
> -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
> -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
 
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uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com wrote:

> After ding an Internet search, I found that Dr. Scruton, an expert in
> the field of aesthetics, has made many of the same arguments that I

"An expert in the field of aesthetics"? How many of those do you
suppose there are in the world?

Same arguments?

How many do you suppose have differing views?

THINK Mikey, THINK. You can't grow a mind on eating pablum thought.

Cheers,
Alan



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-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
 
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uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com wrote:

> I am a philosophy major, after all

Wow!

Here most philosophy majors end up being artists for the government.

They draw unemployment!
 
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Alan Browne wrote:
> uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> I am a philosophy major, after all
>
>
> Wow!
>
> Here most philosophy majors end up being artists for the government.
>
> They draw unemployment!

ROTFL
Back at university, in one issue of the student paper there was a map of
the campus. Philosophy was named "unemployment factory"...
Yes, philosophy is nice, but making your living out of it...I wouldn't try.
On the other hand, fine arts academies teach photography.
 
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uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com quoted:

"and while there
is, as a rule, an intentional act involved, this is not an essential
part of the photographic relation. The ideal photograph also yields an
appearance, but the appearance is not interesting as the realization of
an intention but rather as a record of how an actual object looked."


People do (sometimes) take pictures with an idea in mind, not even
knowing what the object behind the lens will be from the outset of the
project. The driving force behind these pictures is to capture an idea,
a feeling, not to represent some particular physical object behind the lens.
 
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On 16 Jun 2005 09:59:08 -0700, uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com wrote:

> Not the same thing. 'Lie' and 'truth' are not the same dichotomy as
> 'fiction' and 'non'fiction'.

I'm surprised that you didn't mention BS which is a completely
different category, the spoor of which permeates your messages. Per
Amazon:

> On Bullshit
> by Harry G. Frankfurt
>
> "One of the most salient features of our culture is that there is so much bullshit," Harry G. Frankfurt writes, in what must surely be the most eyebrow-raising opener in modern philosophical prose. "Everyone knows this. Each of us contributes his share. But we tend to take the situation for granted." This compact little book, as pungent as the phenomenon it explores, attempts to articulate a theory of this contemporary scourge--what it is, what it does, and why there's so much of it. The result is entertaining and enlightening in almost equal measure. It can't be denied; part of the book's charm is the puerile pleasure of reading classic academic discourse punctuated at regular intervals by the word "bullshit." More pertinent is Frankfurt's focus on intentions--the practice of bullshit, rather than its end result. Bullshitting, as he notes, is not exactly lying, and bullshit remains bullshit whether it's true or false. The difference lies in the bullshitter's complete disregard for
whether what he's saying corresponds to facts in the physical world: he "does not reject the authority of the truth, as the liar does, and oppose himself to it. He pays no attention to it at all. By virtue of this, bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are."
 
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Alan Browne wrote:
> uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > After ding an Internet search, I found that Dr. Scruton, an expert in
> > the field of aesthetics, has made many of the same arguments that I
>
> "An expert in the field of aesthetics"? How many of those do you
> suppose there are in the world?
>
> Same arguments?
>
> How many do you suppose have differing views?
>
> THINK Mikey, THINK. You can't grow a mind on eating pablum thought.
>
> Cheers,
> Alan
>
You guys really know how to feed UC, so the guy is crack pot who wants
to try and define for all what art is and is not. Why should we care
what he thinks, I doubt that his views will carry much weight.

Scott
 
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<uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com> wrote:

> The 'newness' is not an issue. It has to do with unbroken causation (a
> photograph is formed in an unbroken causal chain starting with something
> that aleardy exists). If one were to make a new kind of painting (say,
> electronic) that had no kind of causal relationship to some object, then
> it would be art. Paintings of this kind created in electronic form would
> qualify as art, sure. A photograph, however, is a always a photograph OF
> something (else). It derives from something else. It is derivative. Art is
> not, and cannot be, something derivative....if it's art, it's not
> derivative..if it's derivative, it's not art...

In my view, art is a process, and the objects left behind, the
paintings, photographs, writings, whatever... those are artifacts. Not
art itself, but art droppings. The techniques and crafts by which those
artifacts were created are incidental to the process of art.

If you can drum up the pretense to call yourself an artist, then that's
what you are. However, being an artist, in and of itself, doesn't get
you anything. It doesn't mean that much. Arguing over whether
photographers are artists or not amounts to a turf war over a manhole
cover.
 
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<uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Not the same thing. 'Lie' and 'truth' are not the same dichotomy as
> 'fiction' and 'non'fiction'.

If it could be shown that photography could tell a story of its own
creation, would you admit that it can be an art form?
 
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Paul Mitchum wrote:
> <uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> The 'newness' is not an issue. It has to do with unbroken causation
>> (a photograph is formed in an unbroken causal chain starting with
>> something that aleardy exists). If one were to make a new kind of
>> painting (say, electronic) that had no kind of causal relationship
>> to some object, then it would be art. Paintings of this kind
>> created
>> in electronic form would qualify as art, sure. A photograph,
>> however, is a always a photograph OF something (else). It derives
>> from something else. It is derivative. Art is not, and cannot be,
>> something derivative....if it's art, it's not derivative..if it's
>> derivative, it's not art...
>
> In my view, art is a process, and the objects left behind, the
> paintings, photographs, writings, whatever... those are artifacts.
> Not
> art itself, but art droppings. The techniques and crafts by which
> those artifacts were created are incidental to the process of art.
>

I tell 'em that, and I tell 'em that and all they do is drool on my
shoes.

Good luck ...


> If you can drum up the pretense to call yourself an artist, then
> that's what you are. However, being an artist, in and of itself,
> doesn't get you anything. It doesn't mean that much. Arguing over
> whether photographers are artists or not amounts to a turf war over
> a
> manhole cover.

Or maybe a circle drawn in the path of an incoming tide.

--
Frank ess
 
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"Paul Bielec" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
news:d8sjah$2n6$1@dns3.cae.ca...
> Alan Browne wrote:
>> uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> I am a philosophy major, after all
>>
>>
>> Wow!
>>
>> Here most philosophy majors end up being artists for the government.
>>
>> They draw unemployment!
>
> ROTFL
> Back at university, in one issue of the student paper there was a map of
> the campus. Philosophy was named "unemployment factory"...
> Yes, philosophy is nice, but making your living out of it...I wouldn't
> try.
> On the other hand, fine arts academies teach photography.

In Scotland, they call physics majors, "Natural Philosophers", so it can
have a different meaning.....
 
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> <uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1118938544.002167.123410@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Photographs are non-fiction. Art is fiction.

Van Eyke didn't paint fiction......
 
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On 16 Jun 2005 10:05:30 -0700, uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com
<uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com> wrote:
> After ding an Internet search, I found that Dr. Scruton, an expert in
> the field of aesthetics,

Are his photographs any good?

--
Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215
Sometimes it only makes sense to focus our attention on those
questions that are equal parts trivial and intriguing.
--Josh Micah Marshall
 
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