Photography: Artist vs technician

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Matt Clara wrote:

>> Well, I'm saying it all reads like noise to me. But then again, I was
>> so disappointed in what passes for "school" in these parts when
>> "English" was revealed not to be a study in the structure of the
>> language (ie, linguistics), but warmed over psycho-analysis of
>> characters that don't even exist.
>
> There's a difference between the study of English Literature and the study
> of English Grammar.

Linguistics is much more rich than knuckle-whacking control freaks who
bitch about people who end sentences with prepositions.

> Most elementary schools focus on the later, with middle
> and some high schools focusing on both, and if the high school is big
> enough, then it becomes like college where you can elect to take either a
> literature or a grammar course. And "warmed over psycho-analysis of
> characters that don't even exist," as you put it, is akin to discussing what
> a photograph is about. You know, what's the story there, or the metaphor,
> that impacts the viewer. I may be biased, with two degrees in English
> Language and Literature, but I think it's a worthwhile effort.

Yeah, you are biased. As am I: I tend to favour the external reality
of the real world over the fictitious worlds created by humans with
limited imaginations. Shall we psycho-analyze the poet's true
intentions about his descriptions of a cup of coffee, or shall we just
drink the coffee and move on to more important matters?

> If nothing
> else, it teaches a person to be analytic and forces them to make sense of
> abstract ideas.

Piffle. Mathematics does a better job of this than any so-called
"English" class ever will.
 
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uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com top-posts like the fruitcake he is:

> [... blah blah blah missing the point blah blah blah ...]

Whether or not any of your idiot drivel is true, it still doesn't
change the fact that the stench of the output of the "unnatural
philosophers" is indistinguishable from that of a hog waste lagoon on a
hot August afternoon.

Id est and to wit: you have the brains of a gerbil.
 
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No matter how good a dog is, it cannot be a cat.

No matter how good a photograph is, it is not a work of art.

eawckyegcy@yahoo.com wrote:
> uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com top-posts like the fruitcake he is:
>
> > [... blah blah blah missing the point blah blah blah ...]
>
> Whether or not any of your idiot drivel is true, it still doesn't
> change the fact that the stench of the output of the "unnatural
> philosophers" is indistinguishable from that of a hog waste lagoon on a
> hot August afternoon.
>
> Id est and to wit: you have the brains of a gerbil.
 
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uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com wrote:

> Aesthetics is the conceptual analysis of the structure and nature of
> art, much like Linguistics is study of the structure and nature of
> languages. Just because you can form a sentence does not make you an
> expert in liguistics. The same goes here. These are ADVANCED concepts.
> Photographers (by nature classed as idiots) are not fit to discuss the
> subject.


You're an advanced idiot not fit to discuss anything, Mikey. Idiots, by
definition, are not thinkers. You've proven the point very clearly.


Cheers,
Alan

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I am the most-hated man on the Interent, because I am among the most
brilliant people on the planet.

Gerbil wrote:
> eawckyegcy@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Id est and to wit: you have the brains of a gerbil.
>
> Please do not insult us Gerbils that way. We're not only more
> intelligent than Michael Scarpiti, we're better looking too.
>
> Regards,
> I. M. A. Gerbil.
 
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eawckyegcy@yahoo.com wrote:

> Alan Browne wrote:
>
>
>>Aesthetics do not, ever, define art.
>
>
> So does existence preceed essence, or is it the other way around?

You tell me. But any artist who begins work with aesthetics in mind is
a designer, not an artist. These are not mutually inclusive areas.

Cheers,
Alan



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"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:d8uirr$7eq$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> William Graham wrote:
>
>
>> In Scotland, they call physics majors, "Natural Philosophers", so it can
>> have a different meaning.....
>
> Given the many difficulties with string theory, to which many physicists
> are now dedicating their time, the word "philosopher" is very apt. Much
> of what counts in string theory cannot be stimulated in experiment or
> observed in nature (with the technology we have). So some physicists
> (notably Weinberg) have labled string theory: "philosophy, not physics".
>
> Even the bits predicted by string theory, such as supersymmetry are also
> predicted in the standard model of quantum mechanics, so the upcoming
> (assumed) observation of supersymmetry at CERN (Large Hadron Colider) will
> not confirm string theory. Nor will the absence of a supersymmetry
> particle kill string theory as that will just say, "the experiment failed
> to detect supersymmetry confirming particles."
>
> To be fair, many of the physicists who labeled string theory as quackery
> in the 80's have made cautious revisions to their opinions ...
>
> Cheers,
> Alan

Yes. Well, given the cost of the experimental machines necessary to verify
their, "philosophies", HEP is destined to become more and more philosophical
and less and less verifiable as time progresses. It's gotten to the point
today that most University advisors in physics are counseling their students
to avoid high energy experimental physics altogether.
 
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"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:HBAse.28312$2C2.557665@wagner.videotron.net...
> uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Yes, but only as incorporating some other art form into it. That's
>> called motion pictures, for instance. It's an art form because it
>> incorporates an art form into it. The story and drama are the art form.
>> The rest is just photography.

But the, "just photography" part is sometimes 90% of the beauty of the whole
thing.....Examples: "Lawrence of Arabia", and "Kwaidon".....
 
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'Beauty'? Who said anything about 'beauty'? That has nothing to do with
it.

William Graham wrote:
> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
> news:HBAse.28312$2C2.557665@wagner.videotron.net...
> > uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >> Yes, but only as incorporating some other art form into it. That's
> >> called motion pictures, for instance. It's an art form because it
> >> incorporates an art form into it. The story and drama are the art form.
> >> The rest is just photography.
>
> But the, "just photography" part is sometimes 90% of the beauty of the whole
> thing.....Examples: "Lawrence of Arabia", and "Kwaidon".....
 
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<uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119045446.225056.176990@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> 'Beauty'? Who said anything about 'beauty'? That has nothing to do with
> it.

Well, if "art" isn't an attempt to create beauty, or that which is
beautiful, then just what do you think it is?
 
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eawckyegcy@yahoo.com wrote:

> uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com top-posts like the fruitcake he is:
>
>
>>[... blah blah blah missing the point blah blah blah ...]

> Id est and to wit: you have the brains of a gerbil.

I know a few gerbils who would take offence at that.



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eawckyegcy@yahoo.com wrote:

> Id est and to wit: you have the brains of a gerbil.

Please do not insult us Gerbils that way. We're not only more
intelligent than Michael Scarpiti, we're better looking too.

Regards,
I. M. A. Gerbil.
 
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William Graham wrote:

> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreeLunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
> news:HBAse.28312$2C2.557665@wagner.videotron.net...
>
>>uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Yes, but only as incorporating some other art form into it. That's
>>>called motion pictures, for instance. It's an art form because it
>>>incorporates an art form into it. The story and drama are the art form.
>>>The rest is just photography.
>
>
> But the, "just photography" part is sometimes 90% of the beauty of the whole
> thing.....Examples: "Lawrence of Arabia", and "Kwaidon".....

Will: I wish you would snip more carefully. I don't want to be
associated with Mikey's stupidness.

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William Graham wrote:

> and less and less verifiable as time progresses. It's gotten to the point
> today that most University advisors in physics are counseling their students
> to avoid high energy experimental physics altogether.

That might be the reply for those students who want a science education
and to be able to make a living afterwards... a summer student who
worked with me many years ago stated his intention to do his M.Sc in
physics and I asked what he'd do for work or where he'd do his doctorate

... blank stare. I understand that his parents are quite well off
so I suppose he was in little danger of starving...

Cheers,
Alan.


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On 17 Jun 2005 10:50:13 -0700, uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com
<uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Photographers (by nature classed as idiots) are not fit to discuss the
> subject.

And yet, here you are, discussing it with us.

--
Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215
Sometimes it only makes sense to focus our attention on those
questions that are equal parts trivial and intriguing.
--Josh Micah Marshall
 
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Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

> You're an advanced idiot not fit to discuss anything, Mikey. Idiots, by
> definition, are not thinkers. You've proven the point very clearly.

Alan... why are you arguing with this wanker?

--
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Jeremy Nixon wrote:

> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>
>>You're an advanced idiot not fit to discuss anything, Mikey. Idiots, by
>>definition, are not thinkers. You've proven the point very clearly.
>
>
> Alan... why are you arguing with this wanker?

An excellent question, when I figure out the answer I'll give you a
call. I guess since "art" is one of the most difficult things to define
in any respect, Mikey's absolute exclusion of photography on
pseudo-intellectual grounds is just too insulting to not reply to.

Cheers,
Alan



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First of all Mikey, the reply was not to you.

Secondly, you're wrong. Nobody contends that all photography is art;
I, and others contend that some photography is made for artistic
pursuits only, and therefore it is manifestly art.

Your opinions on the matter are nothing but repetitive regurgitations of
arguments that do not make any sense at all. The fact that somebody
wrote a book with a (selectively quoted by you) section to the contrary
does not make it right. And if they printed 1,000 or 1,000,000 copies
it does not make it any more right than the single original (and
erroneous) manuscript.

Cheers,
Alan.

uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com wrote:

> 'Art' is not better than 'non-art'. A really good photograph is no
> closer to being art than a bad one. A really bad painting is art.
>
> 'Art' is not a term of praise. It is a technical term, like
> 'lubricant'. No matter how well made a brake drum is, it is not a
> lubricant....
>
> Alan Browne wrote:
>
>>Jeremy Nixon wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>You're an advanced idiot not fit to discuss anything, Mikey. Idiots, by
>>>>definition, are not thinkers. You've proven the point very clearly.
>>>
>>>
>>>Alan... why are you arguing with this wanker?
>>
>>An excellent question, when I figure out the answer I'll give you a
>>call. I guess since "art" is one of the most difficult things to define
>>in any respect, Mikey's absolute exclusion of photography on
>>pseudo-intellectual grounds is just too insulting to not reply to.
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uraniumcommittee@yahoo.com wrote:

> 'Art' is not better than 'non-art'. A really good photograph is no
> closer to being art than a bad one.

We're not at all talking about whether a "good" or "bad" photograph is
art; we're taling about whether some photographs are art. (Stop moving
your lips when you read, it's irritating)

Here is some alternate reading material for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_arts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photograph

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photographer (go to any link with the word
"art" in the side description. Many links are also to artist
photographers even if not stated as "art" in that list).

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