Pump-Out Effect, Laptop Thermal Paste Recommendation and Thermal Pads

comprocks

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Hi everyone,
I'm having quite a few thermal issues with my laptop (Lenovo Y510P) - mainly under full load. It is now about 4-5 years old and I'd like to repaste the CPU and both GPUs.

I was considering using the Noctua NT-H1 but I did some research and it turns out that it undergoes the pump-out effect on bare die applications (i.e., without the integrated heat spreader / IHS) [If you don't know what the pump-out effect is, please refer to page 18 of this PDF: https://www.semikron.com/dl/service-support/downloads/download/semikron-application-note-thermal-paste-application-en-2018-01-19-rev-00/ ]

With reference to this, I have two questions:

1. How significant is the pump-out effect? What kind of temperature changes can be expected under load after this effect occurs? How long will I be able to use the laptop before I will have to repaste it? (1-2 people have reported as little as a month, but if you have had different experiences, let me know)

2. Which thermal paste should I use to repaste my CPU/GPUs? I do not want to use liquid metal as I am not a pro/confident enough. I have only repasted twice in my life. I found out that Arctic Silver 5 and MX-4 also undergo this effect.

If you have repasted your laptop (or a desktop CPU without the IHS) with Noctua NT-H1 (preferably) or the Arctic Silver 5 for a long time and have not experienced this effect, please let me know of that as well.

Thanks.

EDIT: Thermal pads' questions are in my 5th September answer.
 

Rdslw

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I used arctic ceramic paste. It does not dry and pump-out is limited. are you aware it happens in months not days ?
if you will need to repaste after 24 months, I dont think that's an issue.
For gaming machine I used thermal-grizzly-kryonaut:
https://www.inet.se/produkt/5320121/thermal-grizzly-kryonaut-1g?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyrqQyaeN3QIVRLUYCh3CdAFvEAQYBCABEgK0OfD_BwE
it also have this problem but its not really happening that fast. I'm 12 months and counting, still no heat problems around. Really makes difference in laptops.
mx-2 or mx-4 is best choice for single application for next 5-6 years.
 

Mr5oh

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Jul 28, 2004
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Personally I've had better thermal performance out of Arctic Silver 5 than NT-H1, in back to back tests on my NH-D15, and that's with no break in period on the AS15. I have used AS5 on a GPU, my GTX1070 FTW and for a little over a year and it was still going strong with no issues. I just switched it out for Kyronaut.

While delidding my 7700K I did try Kyronaut instead of liquid metal, however my results were not great. They started out the same as stock then started to climb a couple degrees higher before settling out. I ended up being forced to go to liquid metal and finding out it's not really safe for copper either despite what they claim.

Personally if your temps are OK, I would leave it alone. Anything you do at this point will open you up to routine maintenance.
 

Rdslw

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About that month, I think they might have overtightened one side and have it loose on the other. it would puke all paste to one side of cpu OR gpu and make this problem very soon.
 

comprocks

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Unfortunately, my temps are not OK at all. It has reached the point where the GPUs reach 97 C and begin to throttle. The CPU stays at a toasty 92-95 C, occasionally reaching 97 C and throttling to 800 MHz for a few moments.

I'm okay with routine maintenance as long as it is once every 1.5 - 2 years. Anything more frequent would be a pain as repasting this laptop requires a complete disassembly (which takes about 1-4 hours, all things considered) to reach the fans / heatsink.


I don't want to use AS5 because it is capacitive, even though not conductive. I'm not confident with pastes that could damage my hardware with improper application.
 

comprocks

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I should mention that I stay in India and the Kryonaut paste is too expensive due to import costs on Amazon applied by the seller - about $28.45 (USD) for 1 gram!


Will this also be the case with the NT-H1 or the MX-4 ? As I said in the post above, I don't mind repasting every 2 years.

I don't want to go for the Silver 5 as it has a long burn-in time and the fact that it is capacitive.
I really have no preference out of the other two since this will be the first time I'm using these pastes.
 

Mr5oh

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Have you considered using a clear nail polish or liquid electrical tape as people do when delidding to protect components when delidding. My temps on my CPU when I delidding and applied direct to the die using Kryonaut started to climb very quickly after a couple of stress tests, that's why I switched to liquid metal. Either way it sounds like you have nothing to lose at this point. At least the NT-H1 is non conductive.
 

comprocks

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Another reason I don't (or can't) use liquid metal is that it isn't available in India on online stores / nearby.

I have a couple of pictures of thermal pads. Could you (or anyone else who reads this) have a look and tell me if these need to be replaced? I looked around on the internet and couldn't really find what a "worn-out thermal pad" would look like.
https://postimg.cc/gallery/2ac1x1rug/

These are of the second GPU and I can't really open the laptop to have a look at the main GPU pads since it would take about 3 hours. Also, are these decent replacements for thermal pads: https://www.amazon.in/Baradu-Divisible-Graphics-Silicon-Air-Conditional/dp/B07F2S7Z5J/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1536119174&sr=8-6&keywords=thermal+pads ?
It has good reviews on the "4 pieces" listing, but since I need more than 4, I decided this would be a better option.
 

Mr5oh

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Is the thermal pad still "sticky"? They are very mildly tacky typically. Typically they last a very long time before they dry out and start cracking or tearing. If you get replacements make sure you get ones that are the same thickness.
 

comprocks

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Sorry for the really late reply, I was busy with my exams. The thermal pads are sticky but the memory clocks keep dropping to unusable frequencies (200 MHz as opposed to stock 2700 MHz) which leads me to believe that the memory is overheating. Do you think that's the case? When I underclock the memory by about 300-400 MHz, this issue no longer exists.

Are the thermal pads I'm buying good? They're very slightly thicker than the originals and have a conductivity of 3.2 W/m.K.

Thanks for your help.
 
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