Samsung DLP HLN4365W audio/video out of sync? Common probl..

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Jim Gilliland wrote:
> RicSeyler wrote:
> >
> > I agree that Samsung has a very nice piece of the market, and
that in
> > it's self lends to more
> > possible complaints. But with the increased number of complaints
there
> > is a very narrow
> > margin of response from Samsung. "Within Specs"....... that's my
concern
> > -vs- the actual
> > number of complaints. I just wasn't doing a very good job of making
my
> > point clear.
>
> Yeah, that might bother me too - if it seemed to be a common theme.
But
> this is the first time I've ever heard of that response from them.
It's
> certainly not what they said to me on the one time that I needed to
talk
> to their service dept.
>
> Even if it turns out that they are correct and the set really IS in
spec,
> I'd still expect them to send someone to take a look at it. I
suspect
> that they'll come through for Kevin, just as they have for other
customers.

First, thanks to all for the great information. Glad to get more
insight than what we typically get from the vendor & manufacturer!

That being said, I have a few thoughts...

- the delay is definitely variable - from virtually spot on to about a
word or so behind. Perhaps it may be "within spec" (the high end of
the range, anyway), but nonetheless very annoying. Since this delay is
a factor of the complexity of the image being processed, would it stand
to reason that an HD signal would be more prone to this? It appears
the DVD feed (standard def over component video) is frequently off by
the largest margin, followed by digital cable (SVHS) then analog cable
(coax) being the "best" aligned. Have not experienced HD yet...

- even if there is a "delay" function built into the HLP lineup would
the "range of slowdown" not still exist, only the synchronization would
be moved up, correct? Would this mean theoretically the picture would
sometimes be ahead of the sound (albeit *very* slightly)? Just
wondering.

- finally, is there anyone with the *identical* model I have (HLN4365X
mfg'd after 07/2004) that noticed the same delay and was actually
"fixed" by Samsung by replacing boards or other hardware?

The conclusion I draw from this is that the only *real* fix would be to
replace the processor handling the image processing with one that is
faster and capable of doing the same work in less time...?
Implementing a delay function is really the band-aid answer for a
larger issue...

Thanks again for all the help.


Kevin.

 

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On 28 Mar 2005 08:11:35 -0800, "Kevin Sargent"
<kevin_sargent@hotmail.com> wrote:

>First, thanks to all for the great information. Glad to get more
>insight than what we typically get from the vendor & manufacturer!
>
>That being said, I have a few thoughts...
>
>- the delay is definitely variable - from virtually spot on to about a
>word or so behind. Perhaps it may be "within spec" (the high end of
>the range, anyway), but nonetheless very annoying. Since this delay is
>a factor of the complexity of the image being processed, would it stand
>to reason that an HD signal would be more prone to this? It appears
>the DVD feed (standard def over component video) is frequently off by
>the largest margin, followed by digital cable (SVHS) then analog cable
>(coax) being the "best" aligned. Have not experienced HD yet...
>
>- even if there is a "delay" function built into the HLP lineup would
>the "range of slowdown" not still exist, only the synchronization would
>be moved up, correct? Would this mean theoretically the picture would
>sometimes be ahead of the sound (albeit *very* slightly)? Just
>wondering.
>
>- finally, is there anyone with the *identical* model I have (HLN4365X
>mfg'd after 07/2004) that noticed the same delay and was actually
>"fixed" by Samsung by replacing boards or other hardware?
>
>The conclusion I draw from this is that the only *real* fix would be to
>replace the processor handling the image processing with one that is
>faster and capable of doing the same work in less time...?
>Implementing a delay function is really the band-aid answer for a
>larger issue...
>
>Thanks again for all the help.
>
>
>Kevin.


Well, I don't know if this will help you but here is my 2 cents.
I bought a Samsung HLP6163W 2 weeks ago. Also got a LG 3510a and Sony
GX300. I have used DVI input, Component, S-video, Composite, and coax.
I have no delay on any input. Everything matches up perfect.
I have tried OTA HD. Cable HD with the QAM tuner. DVD from the LG, DVD
from the Sony.
Even Laserdisc to Sony via s-video, Sony to TV via component.
Everything works great.
I think you mentioned earlier yours was a floor model and you still
have time to take it back. I would take it back and get a HLP model,
not a HLN. You got a great price on the HLN but since it doesn't work
right, your price isn't great anymore.

 

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<Classicarcaderesource@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:dudg41t4j1rc2o70j7pnusfrhc3bfab2ec@4ax.com...

> Well, I don't know if this will help you but here is my 2 cents.
> I bought a Samsung HLP6163W 2 weeks ago. Also got a LG 3510a and Sony
> GX300. I have used DVI input, Component, S-video, Composite, and coax.
> I have no delay on any input. Everything matches up perfect.
> I have tried OTA HD. Cable HD with the QAM tuner. DVD from the LG, DVD
> from the Sony.
> Even Laserdisc to Sony via s-video, Sony to TV via component.
> Everything works great.
> I think you mentioned earlier yours was a floor model and you still
> have time to take it back. I would take it back and get a HLP model,
> not a HLN. You got a great price on the HLN but since it doesn't work
> right, your price isn't great anymore.

The HLP models may have a video delay that is noticeable when playing games.
There is enough lag that a serious gamer would not consider it acceptable.
I was servicing a CRT based RPTV for a client that just bought a new HLP and
the kids playing games couldn't wait to get the CRT set fixed because of the
lag on the Samsung.

Leonard

 

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On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:47:22 -0500, "Leonard Caillouet"
<nospam@noway.com> wrote:

>The HLP models may have a video delay that is noticeable when playing games.
>There is enough lag that a serious gamer would not consider it acceptable.
>I was servicing a CRT based RPTV for a client that just bought a new HLP and
>the kids playing games couldn't wait to get the CRT set fixed because of the
>lag on the Samsung.
>
>Leonard


Interesting. That is one thing I haven't tried is video games.
I will have a friend bring over a game unit and test it out then
report back.

 

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<Classicarcaderesource@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:7kug411b0lp06oj24g5mn4ir6o08cqru0n@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:47:22 -0500, "Leonard Caillouet"
> <nospam@noway.com> wrote:
>
> >The HLP models may have a video delay that is noticeable when playing
games.
> >There is enough lag that a serious gamer would not consider it
acceptable.
> >I was servicing a CRT based RPTV for a client that just bought a new HLP
and
> >the kids playing games couldn't wait to get the CRT set fixed because of
the
> >lag on the Samsung.
> >
> >Leonard
>
>
> Interesting. That is one thing I haven't tried is video games.
> I will have a friend bring over a game unit and test it out then
> report back.

I'd be very interested. I don't play video games and none of our clients
have mentioned it. I'm curious now to try it on one of the other brand DLP
sets to see if I can see it.

Leonard

 

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"Jim Gilliland" <usemylastname@cheerful.com> wrote in message
news:42431d45$0$7662$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> Jeff Rigby wrote:
>>
>> There is no adjustment for Audio/video sync on OLDER DLP sets but there
>> is an upgrade that adds a sound delay circuit that 1) can be turned on
>> and off and adjusted for delay (0-3). This circuit is in all newer sets.
>> I have seen a couple of newer sets (HLN) where the delay circuit is off,
>> it's supposed to be on by default.
>
> That adjustment exists on the HLP and newer Samsungs, but not on the older
> HLN models.

The model year is a little misleading as they are still selling that set but
all the newer ones and that includes yours, has a sound delay circuit built
into the tv so that the pic and sound will be more in sync.

Regardless, it isn't particular useful - it only
> affects the sound within the TV, so if (like most of us) you route your
> audio through an external receiver, it has no effect. So it has very
> limited usefulness.

Very true.
>
>> IF there is no delay between sound out of the speakers and the audio out
>> of the set then the sound delay is turned off or you have an older mfg
>> set.
>>
>> Again, if the delay is variable then THAT problem is NOT the Samsung DLP.
>> The time to process the incoming signal is fixed, at least as far as the
>> same input is concerned.
>
> I'm afraid that's not true at all.
Sorta true. The INPUT is the key here, Component input usually takes LESS
time to process a signal even if it's a full HD signal than video or antenna
input. The type of signal input to component matters if it's SD (upconvert)
or above 720P where the tv has to downconvert. But still the delay time is
less than the other inputs.

Samsung recommend that you use component input for playing games as this
gives the least delay.

>The video delay in the DLPs is quite variable. Each frame must be
>processed by the digital video chip, and the time required for that
>processing is dependent on both the size and the content of the image. So
>the delay may grow and shrink depending on what exactly is in the signal
>stream.

True but,

For the same INPUT the delay difference is not noticeable. IF you have
noticeable delay differences on the same input the problem is not the TV!
If you are watching a SD program on component input the delay for the entire
SD program will be the same, same goes for 720P and 1080I. With the same
signal stream. The signal incoming to component input is analog! The
different modes do take different times to process but it's not variable for
the same mode!

For instance with DVD the decompression algorithum IN THE DVD PLAYER will
take different times to uncompress the picture for very complex scenes, the
output of the DVD player is ANALOG and that always has the same information
stream to the TV.

 

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"RicSeyler" <ricseyler@SPAMgulf.net> wrote in message
news:ViD0e.62083$Q83.38857@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
> Do a Google on Samsung Pincushion Problem and Samsung Keystone Problem...

Did that and what they are complaining about is called "bow" and it's the
screen bowing in slightly because it's resting on the bottom of the frame
and not susspended from the top. Again that's probably shipping where the
set was severly jiggled (possibly dropped) and the case warps or the screen
slides to the bottom. The light path inside is very simple and can't
pincushion. That makes it a bear to adjust tilt for me but more stable.

>
> I've seen quite a few on here and in other groups in the last 6 months or
> so.
>
> I'm not saying every Samsung product is going to have there problems,
> but who wants to take the chance if they know about them going into it?
> And to me it's not necessarily the problems that are the biggest concern,
> it's the flippant "within spec" coming from Samsung.
>
> Most people who have been around computers, new cars, technology in
> general have run into the "within spec" issues and it's very frustrating,
> especially
> after spending several thousand dollars and get their new toy home..
>
> Jeff Rigby wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>There are no keystone problems, or Pincushion problems on the Samsung,
>>there can't be any with the light path design that Samsung uses. There
>>are problems that show up because of severe shipping conditions (warped
>>screens and cabinets) and moisture between the screens causing shadows,
>>also lamps from Phillips being defective (everyone is getting that Mit,
>>Hit, Rca, etc.).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Ric Seyler
>
>