Sony says PS3 Intentionally Hard for Developers

[MrMeth]

I have always been a nintendo fan and always will be (, sorry i had to get that out of the way ) I own a ps3 and a wii. I have to agree that sony shot themselves in the foot by overpricing there console there 2nd crucial mistake was making the system so difficult to program for , in the past this has been the undoing of another super advance game system the nintendo 64. The system was way ahead of its time and was really difficult to program for plus the fact that it was cartridge based didn't help either. In the end it took nintendo 2 console generations to figure out there mistakes hopefully Sony will to. I think the most balanced system on paper is the xbox 360. ( tech vs ease of use for the programmers ) In about 1 year from now the wii will really start to show its age.

 

[Guest]

In short. No.

In Long. Sony probably should have gone with an easier to program approach. The few games it has is crippling, the few exclusive games even more so. And I see alot of projects shunning the PS3 because of the difficulty in programing. It's a sad thing. Should the company be that harsh on developers? Sure it might actually produce some really good and well thought out games, but still. I find the flops at least make up some of the market. Hopefully. If there ever is a PS4 Sony will approach this from a completely different angle.

 

[Guest]

I own a Playstation 3, a XBox 360, and a Wii. But the game quality isn't the same as my pc. Core 2 Quad, HD4870. I don't play the consoles anymore. It just looks and plays better.

 

[Guest]

Perhaps all of you are forgetting the utter crap that came from the PSX. Remember the 1200 or whatever outlandish number of titles that were made for it? Maybe this is the way that Sony intended to deal with the nonsense of every two-bit software company to make a game for their powerful system.

I'm a PC person, myself, but I have the latest consoles and don't play them very often. I do believe that most, other than children's, games for both the PS3 and XBOX360 are actually decent. Sure, not all are top-class titles but compared to the slew of nonsense from PSX and PS2, which had maybe 10-20% of good games due to third party rubbish, the majority of games are of high-quality.

 

[Guest]

'Future' is the right word. Here is the Sony´s choice: to loose the game market by now in order to win the DVD format battle (Blue Ray), and that´s what PS3 was made for. The next generation consoles will make use of the BlueRay format, so the future belongs to Sony anyway...

 

[demonhorde665]

it is no secret that i have beef against Sony (ill explain later)

but to the point now ,

This is an excuse to cover thier rears to explain why ther system is still teh most expensive and why it is such a pain to deal with. sony keeps tryign "new" chip designs and such because they hope to achieve at least a small measure of the golden hey days for japanese electronics (that being the mid 80's to the mid 90's). ever since the mid 90's japanese companies jsut ahvent delived in teh electronics ( though they still make the best damn cars money can get for gass milage). Problem is both with teh Ps2 and the PS3 these "new" designs requrie coding that is difernt from standard code, so this excuse is mnothign more than BS. Truth is any tiem you make such a radically difernt chip design it will require all new code to get it running , period.

now as for why i have beef with sony,

flat out and in short they are a racist company, you need look no further than the initial US release of the original PS to see this. back then Sony didnt know how it was going to get it's product to sell, sssooooo, They hried an entirely American PR/sales team for teh american leg of sony particularly for the PS's release. After this team got the PS to start sellign like hot cakes, what does sony do ??? they lay off /fire every american employee in this PR team , and then replace them with japanese employees flown in from tokyo. This act alone to me reeks of racisim, and I for one will NEVER help support such a company.

 

[salgado18]

Sony is right, the PS3 will show its full glory as time passes. Then, when the next XBox launches, they can compete like the Wii x Xbox 360 today (being the PS3 on the Wii's place). And possibly at the same price point. 😛

Oh, be serious! Grow up already Sony! You're playing like Microsoft on Vista! "Oh, our stuff is so much better, despite having nothing to show for now. But wait, it'll grow!" And then comes Apple eating their market share with something better.

 

[demonhorde665]

kel23 said

"Sony's trying to reap the benefits of this. Remember a long time ago when Sony released the first transistor radio. That is how Sony was founded. No one believed in transistor technology since they had all their awesome vacuum tube radios(lol sorry for comparing Xbox to a vacuum radio as thats all I can thing of for now). It wasn't until several years later that people realized the transistors advantages in less power consumption and compactness. This was the point where Sony took of. It's in Sony's interest to create something that's "never been done before"."


by allemans compare the 360 to a old tube radio ,but keep inmind ... Tubed radios sounded better than tranistor ones , this is why many peopel didnt want to switch, infactr MANY high dollar guitar and bass amps continue to use ALL tube electronics , due to the fact they produce amuch deeper richer and warmer sound than a tranny amp (and dont dare argue with me on this lol i'm a musican and have been so for 15 years , and i have played on evry kind of amp out there and nothing compares to tubes)

so again go ahead and comapre them , but keep in mind tubes (xbox360) sounds (plays) better 😛

 

[salgado18]

Oh! And by the way, think for a moment: the PS-One was an astonishing success, beating... the N64, which was hard to program. And the PS2 is an astonishing success... next to the Xbox, which is easier to program, so we can only say that because the price was right at the time. So now, the PS3 is harder to program, AND costs more, AND carries the reputation of a mildly-successfull console.

I'm a game programmer, and I'm going Java for mobiles just because I couldn't figure out DirectX or OpenGL, which shouldn't be hard to program. I cannot imagine how it could be harder than that.

 

[demonhorde665]

[citation][nom]gangreenola[/nom]"Are you happy with your ps3?" I freaking love my ps3! It doesn't have as many great games as the xbox 360 (which I also own), but the games it does have like MGS4 and Resistance 1&2, Uncharted, Motorstorm, etc are timeless. Sony did not properly explain themselves in this interview. The reality as a gamer is, those who develop on the ps3, are able to develop a much more dynamic and intuitive experience because so much more time was put into making it. Yes, thats not always been the case with all of the case. But, Developers who make a game exclusively for ps3 will definitely show this trend. Blu Ray- while not necessary for most consumers at the moment- will in the next few years give sony a huge advantage as HD resolution becomes a more practical and affordable feature for the market.[/citation]

you obviously know nothign about programing and game design, the "dificulty" that developers have with new chip designs , is in how to get said chip to do said task , the extra time these guys spent on development was not spent learning to do "more" but isntead spend on RElearning how to get from point A to point B. in essence this ceeps game design much closer to teh realm of programing than art , while companies that go with a easier system to design for can focus on the art aspects of making their games, as allt eh coding is standardized and debugging said code also takes less development time. allt eh ps3's extra "meat" does is ad graphical power assumign you cna relearn every thign you had already learned in school/ or buisness prior to the new platform. adn let's face the fact good graphics don't nessicarily equal better games.

 

[Dave K]

I think the translation of this article is probably part of the problem. Sony didn't CHOOSE to make the PS3 difficult to develop for (that would be RETARDED). Sony chose to use the Cell and make the jump to a demanding multiprocessing environment... and those sort of systems are difficult to develop for (especially for folks who are used to SP... folks like gamer developers).

Personally, I think it's not working out for Sony (and unlikely to Improve over time). While the PS3 has lots of computing power, it's graphics horsepower is actually a bit less than the 360... and as PC gamers have known for a while... GPU performance is AT LEAST as important as processing performance when it comes to gaming. Additionally... the pathetic amount of memory in the system means that developers are going to have one heck of a time keeping the cells busy.

Next... appearances. There are a lot of games released on both platforms (I don't include the Wii because it's really not in the same market). Multiplatform games tend to run better on the 360 because developers don't take advantage of all the wiz-bang features of the PS3... they just port the app and go. This gives a lot of folks the impression that the PS3 is the weaker of the two (and Microsoft doesn't argue with them about it) even though it's not.

Also... it's not just the difficult platform that's hurting Sony... the simple fact of the matter is that the 360 development tools are LEAPS AND BOUNDS ahead of Sony's... just compounding the differential advantage for Microsoft.

Finally... longevity. Sony talks about longevity as though it's a good thing. It COULD be a good thing, but if Sony expects to get 10 years out of the PS3 they're dreaming. In 4-5 years there's going to be an XBox720 or whatever... and it's going to totally CRUSH anything the PS3 can do. If Sony can't fire back with a new platform they're going to be giving up the market.

We tend to use our PS3 more than our 360 (PC more than either), but IMO instead of TALKING about the fact that the PS3 is hard to develop for... what Sony SHOULD be doing is putting out tools to DRASTICALLY improve the dev environment and shorten the game development cycle for the platform.

 

[bunz_of_steel]

sony suks dude, like major ya know! This was decided by the "higher ups" who don't know jack.

 

[bunz_of_steel]

had2 say it. but this iz lik a pimp showin off his hoes around the corner of the politzi. wtf sony!

 

[godless thoughts]

Please read the book The Race For a New Game Machine, IBM showed M$ the spec and the design for the cell processor back 2001 or 02, IBM told M$ that this cell processor was going to be hard to program for, thats why IBM develop around the cell for M$. Read the book it explains it all.

 

[decoppel]

As a PS3 owner / user (frequent) I would like to agree with making it harder to develop for.

It has powerful hardware, that for the most part hasn't been tested to its full potential, and even a few graphically amazing games (such as MGS4) could have been pushed further.

I would also like to say I have no problems with cross platform games running slower, because they are poor ports (since companies like Bethesda etc, are getting lazy), especially since I am sticking to first party games, and games that are made with care.

I can't wait for more first party games, and would like to add I am some what disgruntled FF13 is being delayed because a PS3 to 360 port is difficult to scale properly (in terms of graphics/storage/etc) and is going to essentially cause a downscale in terms of graphics.

 

[vaguedreams]

Jesus, how many sheep are out there that just believe anything written? Does anyone honestly believe that they purposely made the thing hard to program for simply to hamper the devs?

These quotes are likely taken completely out of context. Has anyone at toms attempted to contact Mr. Hirai and ask him to elaborate?

Look, I hate the PS3 with a passion. It's not a console, it's a blue ray player. It's a trojan horse just like the PS2 was. It's purpose is to put blue ray players in your home and make money through game royalties, but make a metric ship ton more in blue ray royalties and sales. Sony does not care about the games market other then we gamers are the same guys buying their movies.

Having said that I recognize that they did make a pretty killer machine on paper. (they always do, on paper that is) Just like the ps2 they handicapped themselves to save a few bucks (4 megs of video memory? really?!?) but that is the nature of the game (imagine if this thing had a gig of general purpose ram and 512 megs of dedicated video memory).

Now, the very nature of the hardware is going to make it extremely difficult to program for. The PS1 was designed to ease the 3d transition and was made simple. Sony had a lot of developer support then because they were giving developers a lot of support. They even gave small developers a chance and helped them publish their games (parappa the rapper anyone) because they needed to get their name out there and make themselves viable against Nintendo and Sega.

The PS2 was a change, custom hardware, new programming with multiple processors (the vector units, their core engine). Sony was not intentionally hiding power or commands, they needed to figure it out themselves then make a decent set of tools to give to the devs. Unfortunately for devs this was all put on the back burner and they were left on their own. Sony already had the market share they needed and they were no longer the new guy in town.

The PS3 is the same thing, crazy hardware that they don't know how to fully capitalize on. Only this time they have to deal with MS who won a lot of hard core gaming types, and is now wooing the rest of the market with a fairly easy to program platform and as much support as they can give out. MS right now is doing what sony did with the PS1 IMO.

 

[decoppel]

"A lot of hardcore gaming types"

That is actually laughable, fps players are just drones, they are not true gamers. They aren't wooing the rest of the market either, since their base is specfically FPS players who hate RPGS/Adventures etc with a passion.

 

[eccentric909]

To me, it sounds like Sony is doing everything they can to justify the PS3's existence as an expensive game console, which except for a handful of games, are mostly sub-par. Don't get me wrong, it's a wonderful multi-media hub and blu-ray player, but for all intents and purposes so is the 360 minus the blu-ray.. Although if you're like me, you rent most of the movies you want to see online and can get your HD content that way too (at ~$4, it's not a bad deal). Though, for some movies I do miss extras. 🙁

One has to think if they hadn't gone this route, would they have lost most of their major exclusives (which are becoming multi-platform) to Microsoft and still be king? I know losing FFXIII, DMC4 and a few others have really boosted the 360's attractiveness even more.

I play my console for games, which the PS3, in my opinion anyway, doesn't touch the 360... I play an odd-ball game or two on my Wii, but it's novelty wore off very fast for me. Then I have my PC on which I play WoW mostly. Yes, there are a few exclusives Sony still has I'd love to play, but I wouldn't have the time to anyway.. the 360's library keeps me quite satisfied. We have 2 360's in the house, one for me and one for my son. We've had the RROD problem on both, however both times I sent in for repair, it was back to me within a matter of days. The last one I sent in for repair on a Monday and had it back Thursday.. at no cost.

There were mistakes MS made as well, the system is far from perfect, but so far it has offered me a lot more value than the PS3 would have. Blu-ray is a huge selling point, however, when my biggest gaming screen is 37in.. Blu-ray still isn't that attractive to me. Yes, it is better than DVD, but I'll deal with up-scaled DVDs and downloaded content until Blu-ray players cost as much as DVD players do now.

 

[Parrdacc]

Well here is my experience. Had both the xbox 360 and the PS3. Went through two 360's because of the RROD, but have had not one problem with my PS3. After the second 360 toke a dive I never bothered again with it, so now just have a PS3 and a Wii. Both work as intended with no problems. Sorry to have to say this but I would rather have a console that works then one that works only for a little while. M$ just continues to show its utter lack of quality and reliability and they continue to get away with it cause they know too many people out there will just deal with it.

One side note: A buddy of mine went through three 360's before he threw in the towel and went with the PS3.

 

[eccentric909]

[citation][nom]decoppel[/nom]"A lot of hardcore gaming types"That is actually laughable, fps players are just drones, they are not true gamers. They aren't wooing the rest of the market either, since their base is specfically FPS players who hate RPGS/Adventures etc with a passion.[/citation]

Then why are a lot of popular JRPG franchises that were once Sony only, also developed or being developed for the 360 now? Why is Fable, Fallout 3, Last Remnant, Star Ocean, Tales and so on, also popular on the 360?

What about action games such as DMC4, Ninja Gaiden, Bayonetta, GTA4 (which bonus content is being released for the 360 only), Saints Row, XBlades, Velvet Assassin, Assassins Creed and so on, also popular on the 360?

I do not enjoy most FPS, but there are very few non-fps games that are still Sony only, that I miss out on.

M$ just continues to show its utter lack of quality and reliability and they continue to get away with it cause they know too many people out there will just deal with it.

MS acknowledges they had problems, at least they do now. I'm not going to say MS is better than Sony or vice-versa, but both have problems burying their heads in the sand at times. The PS2 was known for it's spectacular failure rate at the beginning of it's life-span as well, but it didn't keep people from buying new ones or getting their's repaired. No, you shouldn't have to deal with this, but it does happen sometimes. MS has done a pretty good job of repairing consoles for free and extending the warranties for a long time. Their newest revisions don't suffer nearly the same problems and now when you send your older 360 in, they'll replace it with their new 65nm die shrunk CPU/GPUs which don't suffer from the original problems that caused the RROD.

Now, if MS hadn't been so good to me about the problems I experienced with my 360s, I'd have probably thrown in the towel and went with a PS3 myself.