Steve Jobs Got Mad After Microsoft Bought Bungie

[jalek]

MS buys companies to harm competitors? Say it isn't so!
Jobs should be happy he still has any engineers that haven't been recruited away.

 

[Parsian]

LMAO.

i have to say it, i feel sad for Steve. They have the potential to grow but they are holding themselves back. Be a bit open, a bit down to earth and realistic.

 

[teknomedic]

oh boo hoo... maybe jobs should take some of his ipod money and buy some support for macs then. derp.

 

[Usersname]

[citation][nom]InTheCity[/nom]...When the vast majority of PC users know they could build a Mac equivalent for half the price. Complete with dual 6 core Xeons if need be.[/citation] Do they now? Probably 10% are aware of self-builds of which less than 2% might actually bother attempting it. About the same share of the PC market as Apple. Most PC owners buy branded Windows computers. Many without much of a clue as to how to actually use them.

 

[wowohwow]

Steve Jobs got Mad? How is that newsworthy?

Who gives a shit? I bet he went a bought a lamborghini to suppress his anger.

 

[itchyisvegeta]

Microsoft made Halo big. Like it or not. Mac got Halo 2 years later. Because it was big, it would not have sold 2 years earlier like it did, if Microsoft hadn't made it big.

Jobs should be thanking Microsoft, whether he likes it or not.

 

[itchyisvegeta]

got the first halo game, 2 years later. Just incase anyone is reading that wrong

 

[tuch92]

Why is this on the news feed? After the bulk of the story it even ends with "that is ancient history". I was waiting to see more when I scrolled down but the story ended without a point.

 

[Vladislaus]

[citation][nom]usersname[/nom][citation][nomVladislaus[/nom]The Xbox is a commercial disaster? Are you smoking crack? The Xbox is one of the most profitable divisions at Microsoft.[/citation]From Gamesindustry.biz"Goldman Sachs: Microsoft should split off 'unprofitable' Xbox deptAnalyst Goldman Sachs has downgraded Microsoft share recommendations from 'buy' to 'neutral', and suggested that one way to resolve the firm's apparent difficulties is to split off its consumer entertainment division."http://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic [...] x-division[/citation]
http://uk.xbox360.gamespy.com/articles/110/1104553p1.html
http://www.joystiq.com/2008/01/24/the-xbox-turns-a-profit/
http://www.joystiq.com/2010/04/23/xbox-division-posts-165-million-profit-in-fiscal-q3/
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/halo3untitledodstgame/news.html?sid=6237794
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/20346/Xbox-Division-Records-Second-Profitable-Year-in-a-Row/

 

[Vladislaus]

[citation][nom]jalek[/nom]MS buys companies to harm competitors? Say it isn't so!Jobs should be happy he still has any engineers that haven't been recruited away.[/citation]
Nope, apple doesn't buy a single company. Oh wait...

 

[r3t4rd]

[citation][nom]usersname[/nom]Do they now? Probably 10% are aware of self-builds of which less than 2% might actually bother attempting it. About the same share of the PC market as Apple. Most PC owners buy branded Windows computers. Many without much of a clue as to how to actually use them.[/citation]
Exactly. 10% of PC users who build thier own PC = close to 100% of all Apple users combined. 90% of PC users probably do buy branded Windows computers....but 100% of Mac users buy branded Mac computers and probably 90% of those Mac Users don't have a clue how to use a Windows Computer, let alone 90% of these Mac users don't know how to use Macs either. So...in otherwords, most Mac users fail at both ends and the point is moot.

 

[rantoc]

Speaking about selfbuilt pc's - Got a self built rig with 2x480 gtx in sli, would be fun to know how many times a mac with that gpu performance would cost... ohh wait - their not available - they only have the old 285 as the best option if im not misstaken. Nvidia must love the Mac customers - be able to sell the leftovers at full price after the PC gamers got their 1/2 priced fix.

Buy leftovers for double price in a shiny case is not my way to get hardware, i use the computer - not droll on the case or need the bragging rights that i purchased a 1/2 performing machine for double the money it would just serve to prove one thing!

 

[Usersname]

[citation][nom]Vladislaus[/nom]Quotation…and links[/citation]Sorry to inform you that every link you gave is from Games related sites, all of whom would have cobbled together a news item from an MS Press releases. If you have a look at financial sites and sites like The Register (all of which don't care a jot if they piss Microsoft off, unlike games sites which don't like to get on the wrong side of MS or they'll miss out on their freebies and perks) who have analysed the accounts/SEC filings say the Xdivision figures comprise more than the XBox alone and those other products/services now screen the true profit/loss of that product.
Last time Xdivision gave straight figures was in 2007 (losses year on year), suddenly 2008 they start making a profit after years of reported losses yet MS gave no breakdown of the new, restructured Xdivision. Parts of Xdivision are profitable but no one knows for sure if Xbox is profitable. There's been a smokescreen surrounding it or 2 years now.

From The Register (I think):

"Additionally: The numbers make it all pretty clear: Microsoft’s Windows division is valued at $107 billion; its business division at $99 billion; and its servers at $43 billion.

Meanwhile, the entertainment and devices division sits at a mere $3.6 billion.

So why let that one division continue to drag down the whole company?"

Says Goldman:

"A break-up of the consumer businesses could potentially unlock hidden value, or more discipline on cost could turn the businesses into contributors to profitability and shareholder value. To date the company’s comments suggest that management still sees significant value in combining the consumer and enterprise efforts, but we view a foot in both camps as preventing a successful focus on one strategy, a la Oracle in the enterprise or Apple for consumers."

Anyway, looking at those figures, Entertainment and devices (which includes everything from XBox to keyboards, mice, headphones, Zune, etc.,) are only $3.6 billion (the least profitable sector of MS).

 

[Usersname]

Additionally, in 30 years I've never seen MS more unfocussed and lost than they appear to be of late. They are being tugged in all directions by the stormy seas created by Apple, Google and Linux.

 

[Usersname]

[citation][nom]rantoc[/nom]Speaking about selfbuilt pc's...not drool on the case or need the bragging rights that i purchased a 1/2 performing machine for double the money it would just serve to prove one thing![/citation]Nothing. It would prove nothing. Why? Because most Mac users couldn't give a toss about the innards of their computers, they enjoy the Mac experience. That suffices for 95% of them. Of course there are Mac users who know they can get all the component parts and build faster PC's running MacOS X than those sold by Apple. But those people aren't computer fanatics who play loads of games or brag about their rigs.

What games are you talking about anyway that need such computational prowess (less than a handful)? I played Crysis maxed out on a Pro/285 for about 3 hours before the boredom of the game found me removing it from my computer. I recently installed and ran it on my latest i7Extreme/Sli rig and it looked/played identical and was just as boring. I built my gaming PC for fun but it does nothing my MacPro running in Bootcamp can't except pull more fps but that made absolutely no difference to game play. BTW when I bought the GTX285 it was the exact same price on Mac and PC. Apple techs will be well aware of GPU rebranding and probably have a good laugh about it.

 

[Usersname]

[citation][nom]Vladislaus[/nom].../[/citation]You do know I was talking about XBox itself not the games or the controversial XBox Live service (which Steam gives you the better part of for free). To the best of my knowledge the XBox remains what is called a loss-leader. It is a foil to rake in mugs who buy dumbed-down and over-priced games, subscribe to over priced multiplayer services which are incompatible with other multiplayer versions of the same game, etc.

I agree partially with rantoc's earlier comment about Steam pricing, but it's nothing like the swingeing costs of XBox gaming…and you lot have the gall to suggest Apple users are suckers!?

Not owning any console (and Bungie's depressing servitude to it…which was this thread was essentially about) I'll stick to PC/Mac gaming until it vanishes…by then the cancer I have will either have killed me or I'll probably be too old to care.

In the meantime if Steam can persuade adventurous devs to drop that DirectX shite and code with OpenGL API's (okay OpenGL needs some application and dedication) for all platforms we might see a move away from consoles into a freer coding market which will generate more inventive games with better AI, because I'm getting sick of playing the same old game with nothing more than improved gfx and costlier voiceovers. I want vast landscapes with really tricky AI and complex storylines. Until we get that one PC game targeted at a dual PC/Console market will be much like another.

 

[rantoc]

[citation][nom]usersname[/nom]What games are you talking about anyway that need such computational prowess (less than a handful)? I played Crysis maxed out on a Pro/285 for about 3 hours before the boredom of the game found me removing it from my computer. I recently installed and ran it on my latest i7Extreme/Sli rig and it looked/played identical and was just as boring. I built my gaming PC for fun but it does nothing my MacPro running in Bootcamp can't except pull more fps but that made absolutely no difference to game play. BTW when I bought the GTX285 it was the exact same price on Mac and PC. Apple techs will be well aware of GPU rebranding and probably have a good laugh about it.[/citation]

Try any of the latest DX11 titles in high res (2560x1600) or multimonitor setup with some AA,Tesselation and details cranked up to the maximum, it kills pretty much any machine but the gfx are so nice its redicilous to see, fluid framerates are a key to a good gameplay in many game types especally the minimum and thats where brute force comes in. You dont want thoose insane moments when everything happens roll by in 2-5 fps like they likely would without a powerfull gpu/cpu solution at thoose resolutions/details.

Beside that Cuda enhanced rendering is so much quicker than regular CPU/slow gpu rendering solution so yeah i definatly think you get alot more from a win pc both in productivity and gaming thanks to the generation difference in the hardware, the newest generation usually dont cost more but delivers typical 30-40% more. If mac someday catches up im sure they will also enjoy a bigger marketshare than the 10ish% they have today but with it comes alot of troubles too, like having extremly skilled developers for the OS in order to prevent vulnrebilitys at release. Both systems have their share viruses/malware ect and its laughable to hear about Mac users who clain it dont exist, its simply denial. IF mac ever grow so will the share of badware too and im not confident that apple can handle it as well as microsoft actually has all things considered with likely 95% of all the bad ware on their side to fend off.

 

[Usersname]

of those, rantoc, I've played, STALKER Pripyat, Metro 2033, Battlefield Bad Company 2 and currently playing Medal of Honour. I can't honestly say that there is a world of difference between playing on the MacPro/285 in DirectX 10 and the i7Extreme (overclocked to 4.4GHz) with SLi in DirectX 11. It doesn't change gameplay at all and fps in all games are constantly above 60fps on the MacPro with DirectX 10 maxed. I get higher fps with my 64Bit Windows 7 Ultimate gaming rig but it doesn't impact the actual gameplay. However, I don't use multiple monitors. I hate all/any sports games and I never play multi-player as there are too many w*nkers.

The point is we spend an awful lot simply to play a handful of games where cost per game averaged is phenomenal (far more than the differential one would pay between a Mac and a PC over their useful lifetimes). I'm fortunate, I can afford multiple systems. It is ridiculous that people here should constantly knock someone for buying a Mac when they themselves expend so much time, money and energy to play games. Outside of a game they are all just PC's (in my case for day-day computing I far prefer OS X despite Windows having come on in leaps and bounds in an effort to mimic the elegance of Mac OS X). Only recently has Windows been able to handle multiple cores and the multithreading and memory performance of OS X which gave it a clear advantage in some apps. But the System registry of Windows is a mess. OS X self defragments and never gets burdened or slowed down with useless services or crap which attaches itself like lies to rotting meat.

I had a shock the other day when I installed an old game, Sniper Elite, on my PC rig and the DRM system completely trashed my Windows 7 installation…During Boot all the Windows Vista startup graphics appeared which reminded me how little Windows has actually progressed beyond NT and how most of that is cosmetic. I'd never had Vista on my SSD or internal HDD!

BTW, that sort of thing would never happen on a Mac as it doesn't have any apps with such invasive DRM. In fact, in the 2.5 years I've had my MacPro it hasn't crashed once or seen a single Utility app. It just runs and runs day after day.

 

[Vladislaus]

[citation][nom]usersname[/nom]You do know I was talking about XBox itself not the games or the controversial XBox Live service (which Steam gives you the better part of for free). To the best of my knowledge the XBox remains what is called a loss-leader.[/citation]
When we're talking about a division usually we talk about all products of it not one.
Yep Xbox is the loss-leader. What do you call the playstation 3?

 

[Usersname]

[citation][nom]Vladislaus[/nom]When we're talking about a division usually we talk about all products of it not one.Yep Xbox is the loss-leader. What do you call the playstation 3?[/citation]
You're quite right. Although I think I said I wasn't certain when I typed my comment. I was also thinking of the XBox (as a product) compared to any of Apple's products. I had to look up what had become of XBox when you made your subsequent posting as I don't follow consoles at all. That includes PS3. I had the finances up to 2007ish in my mind but was surprised to learn they had rolled so much into the new division they created in 2008 (which turned a profit).

Within the context of the article/thread, I had in the back of my mind the thought that if MS had concentrated on the PC (and gaming on the PC) Bungie would have sold just as many games, and Halo, along with the gaming market, would have been all the better for it. They scuppered OpenGL and tied everyone into their own proprietary code which will remain a barnacle on Xbox gaming until 2015(?). The discerning gaming community has suffered the consequences... c'est la vie.

If they had ensured Windows computers were as elegant and fuss-free as Apple's (i.e. a neat and stable consumer devices that didn't look preposterous in an average living room) they would still have been able to have a gaming division; only, the games would have been far better IMO. And, if they had stuck with OpenGL, users of all platforms would have had a greater choice of games to go with the OS each preferred.

I think the MS Apple Business division makes quite a healthy profit (probably better margins than XBox) and the same would have been for MS Games for Mac/Linux if they had worked on and collaborated to create developer tools for OpenGL.

Personally I don't think it is ethical to subsidise a product in order to create a market. Either what you make is good and sells on its own merits, or it fails. That's probably what got Steve Jobs' goat. MS stole a premier Mac/PC games developer and tethered them at what was a critical time for Apple. Job's needed every string for his bow. What MS did was bad for Mac, bad for PC. Jobs' rage understandable and excusable in context. He didn't hurt anyone, he was trying to prevent a historically important technology company from going under.

As a gamer I've witnessed how MS have contributed to the fracturing and ruination of the gaming market. IMO MS should have let Sony have its space and stuck to improving what they knew best.

Instead, when they see someone create a market they wade in like insecure bullies determined to have a slice of the pie whatever it costs.