SUPERFISH SCANDAL: DELL, HP, ACER, ASUS, LENOVO — Alternatives?

TechEnthusiast88

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Oct 24, 2014
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The Superfish scandal may be the only reason why I won't buy my next laptop from any of the following manufacturers:

(1) DELL
(2) HP
(3) ACER
(4) ASUS
(5) LENOVO

That leaves me with MSI, Samsung, and Microsoft. However, neither Samsung nor Microsoft offers powerful enough configurations to justify the high prices.

So it seems as if I have only MSI. I was actually considering the following customized system components of the Lenovo Y700 (15") for $1520:

- Intel Core i7-6700HQ
Processor (6MB Cache, up to 3.50Ghz)
- Windows 10 Home 64
- 16 GB (8GB X 2) DDR4
2133MHz (2 SoDIMM)
- NVIDIA GeForce GTX 960M (4GB)
- Intel Realsense 3D 1080p Camera
- 15.6" FHD (1920x1080) LED Backlit, IPS, Anti-Glare display (Slim)
- 512GB Solid State Drive M.2 (PCIe)
- External DVD Recordable
- Intel 8260 AC/A/B/G/N(2X2), Dual Band Wireless + Bluetooth 4.0

Could you please suggest alternative laptop brands that offer what I'm seeking?
 

JackNaylorPE

Distinguished
Other than MSI, none of those entities actual "makes" a laptop.

The vast majority of laptops on the market (94% in 2011) are manufactured by a small handful of Taiwan-based Original Design Manufacturers (ODM), although their production bases are located mostly in mainland China. Major relationships include:

Quanta sells to (among others) HP, Lenovo, Apple, Acer, Toshiba, Dell, Sony, Fujitsu and NEC
Compal sells to (among others) Acer, Dell, Toshiba, Lenovo and HP/Compaq
Wistron (former manufacturing & design division of Acer) sells to Dell, Acer, Lenovo and HP
Inventec sells to Toshiba, HP, Dell and Lenovo
Pegatron sells to Asus, Toshiba, Apple, Dell and Acer
Foxconn sells to Asus, Dell, HP and Apple
Flextronics (former Arima Computer Corporation notebook division) sells to HP
Clevo sells to boutique enthusiast / gaming providers such as WidowPC, FalcomNorthwest, VoodoPC, their retail arm (Sager) and, up until the Dell Acquisition, Alienware
The problem with most of these store bought lappies is that they stick a few key components in the ad, and then stuff the rest with low budget components to make a bigger margin. With a Clevo distributor, you choose all the parts for your lappi and it is custom built. However, instead of going to one of the boutique shops, you can knock a huge amount off the purchase price buy going direct to a Clevo / Sager distributor.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/91510-clevo-guide-v2-0-faq-reseller-info.html
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/592609-clevo-guide-v3-0-faq-reseller-info-read-before-posting.html
https://lpc-digital.com/

https://lpc-digital.com/product/sager-np8657-clevo-p650re3/

INSTANT $50.00 OFF!
15.6” Full HD (1920 x 1080) Clear LG IPS MATTE G-SYNC™ Technology!
NVIDIA® GeForce™ GTX 970M with 3GB GDDR5 Video Memory
Standard Thermal Compound
16GB Dual Channel DDR4 PC4-17000 2133MHz Memory (2 x 8GB)
SanDisk X400 512GB M.2 SSD (Primary Drive C)
Intel® Dual Band Ultra -AC 8260 M.2 AC + Bluetooth 4.2 Combo Card
Windows® 10 Home 64-Bit Edition Preinstalled,
FREE UPS Ground (CONUS Only)

Price: $1,529.00 (Cash Price: $1,483.13)

And that includes a upgrade from a 960M (73rd place) to a 970M (31st place) ... th later is 25% - 40% faster in gaming depending on game. Those place finishings are fromt he list here which includes most possible GPU combinations including SLI

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Computer-Games-on-Laptop-Graphics-Cards.13849.0.html

 

JackNaylorPE

Distinguished
Other than MSI, none of those entities actual "makes" a laptop.

The vast majority of laptops on the market (94% in 2011) are manufactured by a small handful of Taiwan-based Original Design Manufacturers (ODM), although their production bases are located mostly in mainland China. Major relationships include:

Quanta sells to (among others) HP, Lenovo, Apple, Acer, Toshiba, Dell, Sony, Fujitsu and NEC
Compal sells to (among others) Acer, Dell, Toshiba, Lenovo and HP/Compaq
Wistron (former manufacturing & design division of Acer) sells to Dell, Acer, Lenovo and HP
Inventec sells to Toshiba, HP, Dell and Lenovo
Pegatron sells to Asus, Toshiba, Apple, Dell and Acer
Foxconn sells to Asus, Dell, HP and Apple
Flextronics (former Arima Computer Corporation notebook division) sells to HP
Clevo sells to boutique enthusiast / gaming providers such as WidowPC, FalcomNorthwest, VoodoPC, their retail arm (Sager) and, up until the Dell Acquisition, Alienware
The problem with most of these store bought lappies is that they stick a few key components in the ad, and then stuff the rest with low budget components to make a bigger margin. With a Clevo distributor, you choose all the parts for your lappi and it is custom built. However, instead of going to one of the boutique shops, you can knock a huge amount off the purchase price buy going direct to a Clevo / Sager distributor.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/91510-clevo-guide-v2-0-faq-reseller-info.html
http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/592609-clevo-guide-v3-0-faq-reseller-info-read-before-posting.html
https://lpc-digital.com/

https://lpc-digital.com/product/sager-np8657-clevo-p650re3/

INSTANT $50.00 OFF!
15.6” Full HD (1920 x 1080) Clear LG IPS MATTE G-SYNC™ Technology!
NVIDIA® GeForce™ GTX 970M with 3GB GDDR5 Video Memory
Standard Thermal Compound
16GB Dual Channel DDR4 PC4-17000 2133MHz Memory (2 x 8GB)
SanDisk X400 512GB M.2 SSD (Primary Drive C)
Intel® Dual Band Ultra -AC 8260 M.2 AC + Bluetooth 4.2 Combo Card
Windows® 10 Home 64-Bit Edition Preinstalled,
FREE UPS Ground (CONUS Only)

Price: $1,529.00 (Cash Price: $1,483.13)

And that includes a upgrade from a 960M (73rd place) to a 970M (31st place) ... th later is 25% - 40% faster in gaming depending on game. Those place finishings are fromt he list here which includes most possible GPU combinations including SLI

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Computer-Games-on-Laptop-Graphics-Cards.13849.0.html

 

TechEnthusiast88

Estimable
Oct 24, 2014
4
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4,510
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Thank you Yuka and JackNaylorPE. I'll do my best to avoid any of their affiliates.

May I ask both of you about your thoughts on the New Razor Blade?
 

JackNaylorPE

Distinguished
I'm kinda lost; which affiliates ... or better said "affiliates of who" ... are you looking to avoid ?

As to thoughts about the Razer, it's not something I have ever looked at ... if we can't custom build each machine, we don't buy. Regardless of how well the machine is built, I can't see paying more to get less. For the last 9 years or so, we have been strictly a Clevo shop.

However, looking today, given the slim form factor and 4 pound weight .... can't be room in there for any decent sized heat sinks, those things have considerable weight to them ... where is the ventilation ? air intakes / exhaust ? And 14 screen ? .. we use only 17", tho next purchases may be larger.

As a resuklt I don't see how their laptop can push the limits of the hardware inside due to power and heat limitations.
 

Yuka

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May 3, 2007
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It seems to be a nice potent machine, but priced accordingly.

There is a trade off between how much performance you will get in games and sleek it looks, so keep that in mind. You can have a laptop with the same components, but cooling will make them behave differently.

In laptops, unfortunately, fatter is better in terms of performance. You need to find the balance between size, thermals, weight, looks (if you care) and price :p

Now, that being said, I bought my own laptop from Sager in 2012 and it's still going strong. A 15", 1080p, i7 3120HQ (i think?), 8GB (dual channel) and GTX675M (GTX580M rebranded).

Cheers!
 

JackNaylorPE

Distinguished
We have had about 10 of them over the last 9 years or so.... all went more than 3 years. Keep in mind 9 of them are used on construction sites during the day and get gaming abuse at night. The other one "went away to college" which is a far more destructive environment. It came home broken ... upon opening, it was "death by chocolate milk" ... or ... given the setting, Bailey's Irish Cream :)
 

TechEnthusiast88

Estimable
Oct 24, 2014
4
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Several well-known YouTubers have endorsed the New Razer Blade, including LinusTechTips. I have grown to trust his opinion on anything tech related.

You have a point about the overheating. I'm planning on buying a cooler fan to address that issue. What do you think? Any suggestions on which brand I should get?




Ultra portability is somewhat important. Coincidentally, the New Razer Blade is both powerful and portable. I need a laptop, and this one seems like the best choice at the moment. It's arguably more impressive than the Dell XPS. I'm also using my money to protest against the industry by "investing" in Razer.

I asked JackNaylorPE this question, but I would like your feedback as well. I'm planning on purchasing a cooler fan to address the issue of overheating. Would you recommend a particular brand (if any)?
 

Yuka

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May 3, 2007
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Uhm... For notebooks in particular, you have to be careful on which type of blower fan base/pod you get, since you need one that follows these two points:

1.- Doesn't block intakes
2.- Doesn't pull air into the wrong intakes, since it would be a waste of money.

The less important ones (IMO), but you have to keep an eye as well are:

a.- height and inclination
b.- material

So, you would have to first take a look at the dimension of the laptop you want, and more importantly it's air intake distribution. If you can, know the location of the exit and entrance of the air. Next, it's just about looking around. I've seen "good brand" notebook cooling pads doing nothing and some "back alley" cheap ones doing an amazing job, so you just need to keep an eye on those things and you will be set. In terms of material... Don't be afraid to buy plastic, but make sure it's of good quality (not flimsy) and has rubber bands; or cheap enough that you can just buy some for it.

Cheers!
 

JackNaylorPE

Distinguished


I think we have conflicting definitions of the word "affiliates". Who is it that is an "affiliate" of Dell for example .. or any manufacturer named in your 1st post ?

Several well-known YouTubers have endorsed the New Razer Blade, including LinusTechTips. I have grown to trust his opinion on anything tech related.

You have a point about the overheating. I'm planning on buying a cooler fan to address that issue. What do you think? Any suggestions on which brand I should get?
Frankly "well know youtubers" is not a ringing endorsement. Let's remember where these guys come from and who they work for. If the reviewer is not putting his findings in writing and publishing then in a location where it can be peer reviewed and commented on, I just don't consider than a serious journalist. If they want to have videos which accompany the article ... but folks like jaytwocents and others .. well lets just say that 2 cents must be considered a gross overcharge.

Ultra portability is somewhat important. Coincidentally, the New Razer Blade is both powerful and portable. I need a laptop, and this one seems like the best choice at the moment. It's arguably more impressive than the Dell XPS. I'm also using my money to protest against the industry by "investing" in Razer.

I asked JackNaylorPE this question, but I would like your feedback as well. I'm planning on purchasing a cooler fan to address the issue of overheating. Would you recommend a particular brand (if any)?
I'm sorry ... portability and powerful are simply mutually exclusive...it's a one or the other thing. It's like wanting to swim w/o getting wet. There's just no way to circumvent the laws of Thermodynamics and conservation of energy. CPU / GPU Power requires two things:

a) Large batteries .. these are bigger and heavier. There are no magic batteries that provide more AH without increased size and weight.
b) Large heatsinks ... There is no special component that can be added to a laptop that provides more cooling at less size and weight. Copper provides better heat transfer than aluminum, it's also heavier ... and ... size matters.

As for external coolers... let me ask you this. If I put a desk fan on my desk and point it at my PC, how much cooler will my CPU and GPU get ? The correct answer is "no cooler". This is no different from a laptop cooler that blows air at your laptop casing. The thought process is that if the fan on the cooler happens to line up perfectly with the air inlets, then it will push air into the laptop. It doesn't actually happen. It will make your lap cooler tho.

1. Every laptop is different, so your chance of the holes aligning perfectly are slim.

2. Air follows the path of least resistance. So when you have a 140mm, 200mm or larger fan blowing at the bottom of a laptop casing, the amount of vent holes is just a fraction of the surface area. So 90% of that air will be hitting the proverbial "brick wall".

3. Then we have the air intake vents which have about 40% open area.... so out of the 10% vented area, 40% of that is open, dropping you to 4%.

4. Now what is the path of least resistance.... air being forced thru the tiny perforated openings with 2mm width or escaping out the 4 sides of the laptop base were the rubber feet keep it 1/4 inch or so off the flat surface ? Put your hands around the sides of the lappie .. you feel air escaping here ... that air is not going into the laptop.

5. Finally, many of these use USB power to power the fans and that means more heat being produced inside the laptop to power those external fans.

 
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