TiVo OS is not PNP

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Hiya,

Don't get me wrong, I *Love* my TiVo. It's one of life's conveniences
that once you become acostomed to it, it places itself on the "Can't
do without list".

But if a component in the loop that you have set up, (TV, DVD, TiVo,
VCR) for example needs to be removed, because it no longer functions,
and thus the connections are changed:

You need to tell TiVo that you are no longer receiving Video through
RF, but through RCA cables. If you do not go thru that step, you will
receive the Tivo Blue Screen that refers to the fact that no video
signal is being received, and here are the steps that you shoud try to
regain a video signal.

But nowhere did it say to check that the TiVo knows from where the
video signal is coming from...or how to chage it if it not correct.

It should be, emphasis on should, it should be a plug and play system,
just like windows.

Mooch

 

[Howard]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Mooch <moochito@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:75rl61d3jfs7h20q29a9o6t851pbkcacul@4ax.com:

> It should be, emphasis on should, it should be a plug and play system,
> just like windows.

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

*wipes a tear from his eye* Oh man, that's a good one.

What? You were serious? Oh, that just makes it sad. I have two monitors
on my windows box, and when I set them up, I had to tell it which was
which...use this is the primary, this as the secondary. An even closer
analogy, I have multiple (and oh man, do I mean MULTIPLE) sound inputs, and
unlike your suggestion for TiVo (and implication about Windows) it does NOT
magically know what one I want to use at any given time. And if I DO tell
it "always use this one" and then I change things around, it does exactly
what you would expect (not want...expect): it continues trying to use the
one I told it to until/unless I tell it to use another.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Get a grip. If you screw around with removing devices you should expect to
have to do something about it. Besides, it's possible for a Tivo (or any
video device) to have more than one thing connected. Do you know how
maddening it would be if a video device started guessing which one to use
instead of letting me choose it? No thanks.

As for comparisons to Windows, you obviously don't grasp the implications...

"Mooch" <moochito@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:75rl61d3jfs7h20q29a9o6t851pbkcacul@4ax.com...
>
> Don't get me wrong, I *Love* my TiVo. It's one of life's conveniences
> that once you become acostomed to it, it places itself on the "Can't
> do without list".
>
> But if a component in the loop that you have set up, (TV, DVD, TiVo,
> VCR) for example needs to be removed, because it no longer functions,
> and thus the connections are changed:
>
> You need to tell TiVo that you are no longer receiving Video through
> RF, but through RCA cables. If you do not go thru that step, you will
> receive the Tivo Blue Screen that refers to the fact that no video
> signal is being received, and here are the steps that you shoud try to
> regain a video signal.
>
> But nowhere did it say to check that the TiVo knows from where the
> video signal is coming from...or how to chage it if it not correct.
>
> It should be, emphasis on should, it should be a plug and play system,
> just like windows.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <75rl61d3jfs7h20q29a9o6t851pbkcacul@4ax.com>,
Mooch <moochito@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hiya,
>
> Don't get me wrong, I *Love* my TiVo. It's one of life's conveniences
> that once you become acostomed to it, it places itself on the "Can't
> do without list".
>
> But if a component in the loop that you have set up, (TV, DVD, TiVo,
> VCR) for example needs to be removed, because it no longer functions,
> and thus the connections are changed:
>
> You need to tell TiVo that you are no longer receiving Video through
> RF, but through RCA cables. If you do not go thru that step, you will
> receive the Tivo Blue Screen that refers to the fact that no video
> signal is being received, and here are the steps that you shoud try to
> regain a video signal.
>
> But nowhere did it say to check that the TiVo knows from where the
> video signal is coming from...or how to chage it if it not correct.
>
> It should be, emphasis on should, it should be a plug and play system,
> just like windows.
>
> Mooch

Macintosh is plug and play. Windows is Plug and Pray, working only if
the Drivers are already there.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> Macintosh is plug and play. Windows is Plug and Pray, working only if
> the Drivers are already there.

Yeah but with the Mac you're stuck with only devices made for it. You're
screwed if you want to make use of the hundreds of different suppliers
making all sort of stuff for Windows. No thanks, I'm not paying more for
LESS choice.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <aeKdnfGwetgnKPbfRVn-jg@speakeasy.net>, wkearney99
<wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > Macintosh is plug and play. Windows is Plug and Pray, working only if
> > the Drivers are already there.
>
> Yeah but with the Mac you're stuck with only devices made for it.

I run a four-year-old Mac. My keyboard, trackball, scanner and laser
printers (b&w and color) were not built for the Mac. The four drives I
installed were not built for the Mac. My DSL modem and router were not
built for the Mac. My monitor was not built for the Mac. Looking at
my setup, I see no peripheral that is Mac-specific or, indeed, has been
adapted or altered in any way to work with the Mac. (Oh, wait. Yeah.
My digital speakers were built for the Mac. They came with it,
though.)

Everything worked the first time, too. In fact, everything works all
the time. My stuff always works.

> You're screwed if you want to make use of the hundreds of different
> suppliers making all sort of stuff for Windows. No thanks, I'm not
> paying more for LESS choice.

Paying less so you can buy more stuff that doesn't work correctly seems
counter-productive to me.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <aeKdnfGwetgnKPbfRVn-jg@speakeasy.net>,
"wkearney99" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > Macintosh is plug and play. Windows is Plug and Pray, working only if
> > the Drivers are already there.
>
> Yeah but with the Mac you're stuck with only devices made for it. You're
> screwed if you want to make use of the hundreds of different suppliers
> making all sort of stuff for Windows. No thanks, I'm not paying more for
> LESS choice.

You'd rather have a Doom Game machine than a reliable computer?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <jzwick3-B6FAD9.10073924042005@news1.west.earthlink.net>,
Jack Zwick wrote:
> In article <aeKdnfGwetgnKPbfRVn-jg@speakeasy.net>,
> "wkearney99" <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > Macintosh is plug and play. Windows is Plug and Pray, working only if
>> > the Drivers are already there.
>>
>> Yeah but with the Mac you're stuck with only devices made for it. You're
>> screwed if you want to make use of the hundreds of different suppliers
>> making all sort of stuff for Windows. No thanks, I'm not paying more for
>> LESS choice.
>
> You'd rather have a Doom Game machine than a reliable computer?

Well, I'd rather build a PC with hardware of *my* choosing, dual-boot
Windows and Linux, and have both a game machine *and* a reliable
computer. Installing drivers (or changing input settings on a TiVo)
isn't what I'd call hard work, anyone who thinks it is needs to spend
a shift doing (insert manual labor job here) and find out what work is.

I've nothing against Macs, but they're not the only reliable computer
out there.

Jim

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Jack Zwick (jzwick3@mindspring.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> You'd rather have a Doom Game machine than a reliable computer?

Define "reliable".

Other than needing to reboot for some software installs, there's nothing
that stops my WinXP box from doing what it is supposed to. Some poorly-
written software does crash (and unfortunately sometimes it's software
that I need to use fairly often), but other software keeps running just
fine.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http/www.nabs.net/Cartoons/RhymesWithOrange/Recycling.jpg

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Dr. Personality (affable@no.com.invalid) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> Everything worked the first time, too. In fact, everything works all
> the time. My stuff always works.

And this is different from a PC how?

Seriously, I have 8 Intel-based PCs running various OS configurations,
and if I have the driver for the hardware, everything works all the time.
And, I do have a broad range of hardware (HDTV tuner cards, scanners,
cameras, camcorders, various portable drives, different video cards, RAID
cards, etc.).

I know that it's exactly the same on a Mac. If the driver isn't included
with the OS and the manufacturer doesn't make one for your OS, you're
pretty much hosed. Otherwise, it works as well as the driver is written.

Unless, of course, you have a non-OS related problem, like when I was
trying to write to an SD card using a USB 2.0 card reader and couldn't.
It turned out something inside the reader was catching the "write protect"
slider on insertion, and the card was always write-protected inside the
reader, but the slider moved back to the "unlock" position when you pulled
it out. Really tough to diagnose and it would have had the same problem
with *any* OS.

> > You're screwed if you want to make use of the hundreds of different
> > suppliers making all sort of stuff for Windows. No thanks, I'm not
> > paying more for LESS choice.
>
> Paying less so you can buy more stuff that doesn't work correctly seems
> counter-productive to me.

Yeah, it would, but you're assuming things don't work right on any computer
but a Mac. That's just wrong.

The biggest issue that the average Windows user has is that they probably
have a virus or twenty (along with some spyware), and that can cause a
*lot* of problems. This is just one of the things you have to learn to
deal with when you use the most popular OS.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http/www.nabs.net/Cartoons/OverTheHedge/StarWars1.gif

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <MPG.1cd5da5d3d1fc20b989cce@news.nabs.net>, Jeff Rife
<wevsr@nabs.net> wrote:

> Dr. Personality (affable@no.com.invalid) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

> Seriously, I have 8 Intel-based PCs running various OS configurations,
> and if I have the driver for the hardware, everything works all the time.
> And, I do have a broad range of hardware (HDTV tuner cards, scanners,
> cameras, camcorders, various portable drives, different video cards, RAID
> cards, etc.).
>
> I know that it's exactly the same on a Mac. If the driver isn't included
> with the OS and the manufacturer doesn't make one for your OS, you're
> pretty much hosed. Otherwise, it works as well as the driver is written.
>
> Unless, of course, you have a non-OS related problem, like when I was
> trying to write to an SD card using a USB 2.0 card reader and couldn't.
> It turned out something inside the reader was catching the "write protect"
> slider on insertion, and the card was always write-protected inside the
> reader, but the slider moved back to the "unlock" position when you pulled
> it out. Really tough to diagnose and it would have had the same problem
> with *any* OS.
>
> > > You're screwed if you want to make use of the hundreds of different
> > > suppliers making all sort of stuff for Windows. No thanks, I'm not
> > > paying more for LESS choice.
> >
> > Paying less so you can buy more stuff that doesn't work correctly seems
> > counter-productive to me.
>
> Yeah, it would, but you're assuming things don't work right on any computer
> but a Mac. That's just wrong.

Stipulated. Sorry about that.

> The biggest issue that the average Windows user has is that they probably
> have a virus or twenty (along with some spyware), and that can cause a
> *lot* of problems. This is just one of the things you have to learn to
> deal with when you use the most popular OS.

My point really was to quarrel with the statement that Mac peripherals
had to be manufactured specifically for Macs. That is not true.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>Don't get me wrong, I *Love* my TiVo. It's one of life's conveniences
>that once you become acostomed to it, it places itself on the "Can't
>do without list".
>
>But if a component in the loop that you have set up, (TV, DVD, TiVo,
>VCR) for example needs to be removed, because it no longer functions,
>and thus the connections are changed:
>
>You need to tell TiVo that you are no longer receiving Video through
>RF, but through RCA cables. If you do not go thru that step, you will
>receive the Tivo Blue Screen that refers to the fact that no video
>signal is being received, and here are the steps that you shoud try to
>regain a video signal.

My TiVo receives video through RF (antenna) *AND* the RCA cables
(VCR, to occasionally transfer stuff from video tape). If the
antenna signal gets weak, I *DON'T* want it switching on its own
to the RCA cables (and it will probably not switch back since the
VCR doesn't suffer from signal fade, thereby botching all future
recordings until I notice the problem). Also, the TiVo doesn't know
how to control the channel on the VCR (it really should never need
to in my setup; the VCR doesn't even have RF input connected to
it).

>But nowhere did it say to check that the TiVo knows from where the
>video signal is coming from...or how to chage it if it not correct.

On my version of it (Series 1 standalone), it DOES says this:

3. Check cable connections.
4. Verify video source; try connecting it directly to your TV.


>It should be, emphasis on should, it should be a plug and play system,
>just like windows.

Oh, you mean how Windows labels the drives in an order IT likes, so
if you add a partition to one drive, it breaks all your scripts
that refer to stuff on another drive?

How do you propose that TiVo figure out how to control the channel on
what's connected to the RCA jacks? Spray out IR codes to control every
device it ever heard of until it thinks it's got it right? (and how
does it determine that?)

Gordon L. Burditt

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Dr. Personality (affable@no.com.invalid) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> My point really was to quarrel with the statement that Mac peripherals
> had to be manufactured specifically for Macs. That is not true.

Yeah, it was the case about 2-3 generations of Mac ago, but not anymore.

A lot of that is because Apple dropped a lot of the proprietary nature of
the hardware and started using industry standards. We all remember when
you had to use special software to "mark" a generic hard drive so that the
Mac OS thought it was a "real" Apple drive. There was no physical difference
between the drives...it's just that the Apple branded drives were formatted
before being shipped out, and had a signature on the drive that the OS looked
for.

--
Jeff Rife | "Hey, Brain, what do you wanna do tonight?"
|
| "The same thing we do every night, Pinky...
| try to take over the world."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Jeff Rife wrote:
> Dr. Personality (affable@no.com.invalid) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>
>>My point really was to quarrel with the statement that Mac peripherals
>>had to be manufactured specifically for Macs. That is not true.
>
>
> Yeah, it was the case about 2-3 generations of Mac ago, but not anymore.
>
> A lot of that is because Apple dropped a lot of the proprietary nature of
> the hardware and started using industry standards. We all remember when
> you had to use special software to "mark" a generic hard drive so that the
> Mac OS thought it was a "real" Apple drive. There was no physical difference
> between the drives...it's just that the Apple branded drives were formatted
> before being shipped out, and had a signature on the drive that the OS looked
> for.
>


As a PC-based person, I completely agree with that. With Mac supporting
most of the standard peripheral interconnects now (and having been the
first to support them on a few), peripheral support on a Mac is much
wider now. Sometimes they get a *little* too forward thinking for their
own good (I run into problems now and then with visiting Lecturers
trying to hook up newer Mac laptops to ceiling projectors with only DVI
video outputs and not having a DVI/RGB converter), but that straightens
out over time.

It's still not fun to have to replace a core component, like a
Motherboard, but virtually anything else isn't too tough to find.

The only major trade-offs w/ Macs that I see now are somewhat higher
prices for equivalent hardware, not much group management software
available (doesn't mean much for a home user, but try managing 500
clients, Active Directory is sooooooo useful), and there was something
else, but I've now forgotten ;-). There are definite advantages as
well, smoother and more cohesive overall interface, better overall app
reliability (mostly because of better quality control). My biggest
complaint, OS inflexibility, has basically evaporated w/ the release of
OS X and later.

The biggest problem I have these days are with Mac zealots, not Macs. I
manage *one* employee who refuses to use anything but Macs. That in
itself is fine, but I have to hear from him every time I help him do
something (usually setting up some network connection or other) how it
would be so much better if I switched everybody over to Macs. No matter
how many times I list the number of reasons that I think it would be a
bad idea in our business setting, I have to hear the same thing every
time. The ironic thing is that he hires a lot of people use a
particular software package (ArcGIS) that runs only on Windows, so
switching to Macs would pretty much put him out of a job.

Randy S.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> Oh, you mean how Windows labels the drives in an order IT likes, so
> if you add a partition to one drive, it breaks all your scripts
> that refer to stuff on another drive?

Yeah, that's a pain. Usually pretty easy to fix, fortunately. However,
*never* put two functional primary Operating System drives in the same
system at once. Windows gets all discombobulated and will mix the boot
partition and the swap files up, so that it won't run once you format or
remove the second disk. It's fixable, but not easily.

Randy S.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Randy S. (rswittNO@SPAMgmail.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> However,
> *never* put two functional primary Operating System drives in the same
> system at once. Windows gets all discombobulated and will mix the boot
> partition and the swap files up, so that it won't run once you format or
> remove the second disk.

I've never seen this problem, and I often put a bootable disk into another
machine in order to do something you can't do with the OS running off
that install.

But, if it were a problem, I would just stuff the second drive into an
external USB case and plug it in, do my thing, then unplug it.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http/www.nabs.net/Cartoons/Dilbert/MoneyNotDogs.gif

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Jeff Rife wrote:
> Randy S. (rswittNO@SPAMgmail.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>
>> However,
>>*never* put two functional primary Operating System drives in the same
>>system at once. Windows gets all discombobulated and will mix the boot
>>partition and the swap files up, so that it won't run once you format or
>>remove the second disk.
>
>
> I've never seen this problem, and I often put a bootable disk into another
> machine in order to do something you can't do with the OS running off
> that install.
>
> But, if it were a problem, I would just stuff the second drive into an
> external USB case and plug it in, do my thing, then unplug it.
>

I've managed to duplicate the situation several times, it has something
to do with the Windows signature of the drives (both being C: but with
different signatures) and some legacy path designations in the registry.
The system seems to use the correct system directory and files, but
use the incorrect swap file. Then the 2nd drive's swap file gets hard
coded into the registry, and if you try to run without the second drive,
the OS will give you a missing virtual memory error when you try to
login. I think it requires that the 2nd disk be *identical* (data-wise)
to the 1st, I run into this problem mostly when I'm upgrading an old,
small HDD system drive to a larger one, then use the old one as a
smaller secondary data drive.

Usually booting to restore console (or any other command window you
choose to use) and running a fdisk /mbr fixes it, since that erases the
disk signatures and Windows has to remake them. The /mbr switch will
also reletter your drives for you if you end up stuck with a non-c:
system drive (don't ask, it's happened).

The USB trick would work, except I'd wonder whether some of the new
boards and bioses that support booting from USB drives might still have
a problem.

Randy S.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Randy S. (rswittno@spamgmail.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> The USB trick would work, except I'd wonder whether some of the new
> boards and bioses that support booting from USB drives might still have
> a problem.

Nope. The boot sequence from the BIOS just determines what drive to boot
off of. You might end up booting off the USB drive, but if you don't,
Windows doesn't initialize USB until long after non-USB drives are enumerated,
so the swap file, etc., is already set up by the time it sees the drive.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http/www.nabs.net/Cartoons/RhymesWithOrange/MailerDaemon.gif

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> I run a four-year-old Mac. My keyboard, trackball, scanner and laser
> printers (b&w and color) were not built for the Mac.

Yeah, except those USB keyboard requirements are a bit of a pain. Oh,
powering up from the keyboard? Not without spending extra for apple's
bastardization of the usb spec for it...

> Everything worked the first time, too. In fact, everything works all
> the time. My stuff always works.

As do all the devices on my PCs.

> Paying less so you can buy more stuff that doesn't work correctly seems
> counter-productive to me.

Except that it does work. Hey, I'm all for choice. PCs give me more of it.
That some folks don't choose wisely doesn't mean they should forsake choice
for a dictatorial and obscenely proprietary vendor.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> My point really was to quarrel with the statement that Mac peripherals
> had to be manufactured specifically for Macs. That is not true.

Oh it certainly is true. Once you get outside the mere basics of device
features unless Mac drivers are written for it you can't make use of it's
features.