Valve Won't Change Business Model Despite European Ruling

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Guide community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Status
Not open for further replies.

f-14

Distinguished
Apr 2, 2010
774
0
18,940
4
valve is on the losing end because you always havee to click to agree with any TOS changes, and inorder to void anybodys TOS changes you check disagree and the eula becomes void.

they even say right in the eula if for any reason you disagree you can return the merchandise to the place of purchase for a FULL REFUND.
every time i've returned software it has been this reason and it works even at best buy or some other retail store no matter what the store manager says you show them that, they get very mad and quietly refund you your money.

it even says so in diablo3's eula which is one of the newer games if u care to read it.
 

Zingam_Duo

Honorable
Mar 22, 2012
114
0
10,630
0
[citation][nom]redyellowblueblast[/nom]That's just the thing. You do NOT own any of your games. The developers own the games. The only thing you purchase is the license that's required to play that game.[/citation]

Would you like to license your car too? So one day when you drive your brand new Toyota, the police stops you in the middle of nowhere:
"Get out of the car, Sir, your licence has expired!"
 

Zingam_Duo

Honorable
Mar 22, 2012
114
0
10,630
0
[citation][nom]A Bad Day[/nom]As much as I dislike some of the practices.Do keep in mind that developers need something to live on. Money doesn't grow on trees.[/citation]

It's made of trees.
 

morstern

Distinguished
Feb 4, 2011
8
0
18,510
0
Before the technology was here to tie a game to an account, you could hand your game to someone else and they could play it. Back then it was very simple to understand you owned that copy for execution of its code and could if you saw fit give it/sell it to someone else so they could use it to execute the code.

Today I don't own something in my hand therefore I am to believe that I have paid someone to take me as a revenue stream tied to a game.?! No I have (According to the EU ruling) the right to resell my legally obtained usage of that code. Not derivative copies, reproduced copies or anything else, just the original copy.

By the way this goes beyond games. I buy a copy of Windows and later sell my computer to someone else. They cannot use it because they need to buy a new windows CD. I buy the SSPS program for use on my system. Later I change fields and and decide to sell my copy of SSPS - No you can't it is tied to your soul only. This is stupid. If I buy it, I own it. If I lease it, fine I only own it for the time of the lease. But to say I never own it is stupid.
 

Stoppemfloppen

Distinguished
Jan 3, 2008
4
0
18,510
0
Don't understand how people are making the comparison between buying a car and a game.

Unlike a car, where you are purchasing and owning a physical object, when you purchase software you are merely buying a license to use it. You own a digital (or CD) key, nothing else. That has always been the T's and C's with computer S/W. Technically it is also illegal to re-sell music CDs, cassettes and vinyl but it has never been enforced, and game resellers have also taken advantage of this lack of enforcement with physical copies. But in the cloud things are different. Steam can enforce this more effectively and now they have the power people are up in arms.

It seems to me that the ruling effectively suggests that the T's and C's governing software may have to be changed at some point in the future. Watch this space I guess...
 

mihaimm

Distinguished
Apr 6, 2009
33
0
18,580
0
[citation][nom]Stoppemfloppen[/nom]Don't understand how people are making the comparison between buying a car and a game.[/citation]We didn't started this. It's the software business that started this. Remember those ads with "you'd never steal a purse, illegal downloading is stealing"? Well... if I buy a purse, I can sell it. Software IS the same. If you buy it you can resell. If you lease it, you can sublease it.

As a side note... who here knows that "Happy Birthday To You" is copyrighted work? this is a song from 1893 with lyrics improvised by 5-6 years old kids. The current owner is Warner Music Group and they make about 2 millions per year from it. Can you spot something wrong here??
 
G

Guest

Guest
[citation][nom]Tehol[/nom]Which is precisely the thing you should be contesting.[/citation]
[citation][nom]redyellowblueblast[/nom]That's just the thing. You do NOT own any of your games. The developers own the games. The only thing you purchase is the license that's required to play that game.[/citation]

I happen to own all my games, going back to 1980's atari cartridges to digital purchases this decade. Oh and yes the state does not own my body either. Free your mind.
 
G

Guest

Guest
[citation][nom]redyellowblueblast[/nom]So you are telling me that people should be allowed to claim properties that others have created? And on top of that, make profit from it? Does that not sound like that, that property is being stolen? The only people that should make any sort of profit from any given product is the creator, and the distributor. Not the consumer.[/citation]

If a consumer sells his copy of his game, he becomes a seller, and the person who buys it second hand is the consumer.
 
G

Guest

Guest
[citation][nom]Stoppemfloppen[/nom]Don't understand how people are making the comparison between buying a car and a game.Unlike a car, where you are purchasing and owning a physical object, when you purchase software you are merely buying a license to use it. You own a digital (or CD) key, nothing else. That has always been the T's and C's with computer S/W. Technically it is also illegal to re-sell music CDs, cassettes and vinyl but it has never been enforced, and game resellers have also taken advantage of this lack of enforcement with physical copies. [/citation]

Free people have the right to sell their own property. You can worship the state if you wish.
 

mihaimm

Distinguished
Apr 6, 2009
33
0
18,580
0
[citation][nom]redyellowblueblast[/nom]So you are telling me that people should be allowed to claim properties that others have created?[/citation]Creator creates. He is the owner. Creator sells & buyer buys. Buyer becomes owner. Yes, property can be transferred. It's called trade.
[citation][nom]redyellowblueblast[/nom]And on top of that, make profit from it?[/citation]
Buyer sells at a profit. It's called commerce.
[citation][nom]redyellowblueblast[/nom]Does that not sound like that, that property is being stolen?[/citation]No. Nobody forced the creator to sell. Nobody took the original property from the creator. He sold it. Again, it's called commerce.
[citation][nom]redyellowblueblast[/nom]The only people that should make any sort of profit from any given product is the creator, and the distributor. Not the consumer.[/citation]This is simply ridiculous...
 

andover

Honorable
Apr 19, 2012
5
0
10,510
0
I'm with steam on this one, they gave me prices so low on games, that i dont really care or need to trade games, if i can buy like 10 games for the price of one or like 5 bucks for an AA game, no one need to trade games.
Steam has my respect
 

andover

Honorable
Apr 19, 2012
5
0
10,510
0
And on top of all that, this is not unlegal either. Its just how commerce works.

Lets think how it works on the real world:
Samsung creates a new LED TV, they sell to the distributors, distributors resell to specialized companys such as walmart, and walmart re-resells to the final consumer, and if the consumer didnt like it or got a newer tv after a couple of years, he can re-re-resell to a friend of him or another company, and its not against the law, its completely fine.

same thing with games
 

scannall

Distinguished
Jan 28, 2012
61
0
18,590
2
[citation][nom]Zingam_Duo[/nom]Would you like to license your car too? So one day when you drive your brand new Toyota, the police stops you in the middle of nowhere:"Get out of the car, Sir, your licence has expired!"[/citation]


People already do license their cars. It's called a lease.
 

kinggraves

Distinguished
May 14, 2010
445
0
18,940
1
Steam is a private business and has the right to set whatever policies they wish within the confines of the law. They cannot technically stop you from selling your games, but they do not have to facilitate those transactions on their system either. Read the story, not the title. They're just saying they aren't going to help you sell it. "Free your mind, don't support the state" Are you that clueless? You're the ones supporting the state telling a private entity how to conduct it's business, a practice that goes against the capitalist principles our country has thrived on.

You don't like it, you feel as if you should be able to do whatever you want with your virtual license? Why did you buy it then? Steam's terms have always been clear that you do not own the purchase. You agreed to these terms when you bought it. This is not like you trying to resell your owned car, this is like you renting a car then trying to sell it. You never owned the car, you rented it. Those were the terms you signed in for. You don't own a game on Steam, you never did. You willingly leased it from Steam. If you don't like those terms, then you should have bought the physical copy and not the digital copy.

The best part is, no resales is part of the business model that allows Steam to give you such low prices. If you had your way and they allowed resales, you can kiss all those sales and bundles goodbye. They function by bundling things you don't want with a few things you do. If you could resell the ones you don't want, they would not profit from bundles and would cease them completely. If they allow resales, you can expect all pricing to be the same as physical copies that you can resale, $50 each. When you guys get into high school you should probably take a business class so you can understand how these things work.

If you don't like leasing your content, stop leasing your content.
 

n3ard3ath

Distinguished
Dec 11, 2008
118
0
18,630
0
[citation][nom]redyellowblueblast[/nom]That's just the thing. You do NOT own any of your games. The developers own the games. The only thing you purchase is the license that's required to play that game.[/citation]

With the current policies, you don't own the license either, you just borrow it for indifinate time. That's what need to change.
 

Camikazi

Distinguished
Jul 20, 2008
745
0
18,930
0
[citation][nom]TeholTheConfused[/nom]You need to stand up for your rights- and that includes the ability to SELL PROPERTY THAT I OWN post-purchase. Seriously, guys, that's not "being entitled." That's how real life works.[/citation]
You don't own any game, you are licensed the use of the game on their terms. There has NEVER been a time where you owned any music, video or game you just license it's use the only thing you did own was the media and once you gave that away you just transferred the license. With digital there is no media to use to transfer the license so they don't have to allow you to do anything.
 

alidan

Distinguished
Aug 5, 2009
1,681
0
19,730
0
i have several games with steam that if they let me i would have 3 or 4 keys for, and would gladly give them to friends.

i should be able to give my games away or trade for others with games i don't want if i so choose.
 

scannall

Distinguished
Jan 28, 2012
61
0
18,590
2
[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]i have several games with steam that if they let me i would have 3 or 4 keys for, and would gladly give them to friends. i should be able to give my games away or trade for others with games i don't want if i so choose.[/citation]

You knew you couldn't when you gave Steam money. If you don't like their business, then don't use them. Is it really that hard?
 

beardguy

Distinguished
Dec 10, 2010
175
0
18,630
0
[citation][nom]Camikazi[/nom]You don't own any game, you are licensed the use of the game on their terms. There has NEVER been a time where you owned any music, video or game you just license it's use the only thing you did own was the media and once you gave that away you just transferred the license. With digital there is no media to use to transfer the license so they don't have to allow you to do anything.[/citation]

This tired old statement again? Comes up every time. You sound like a damn lawyer using lawyer speak. If I buy a game for $60 and download it, then decide I'm tired of it and uninstall it (hence revoking my "license") I should have every right to resell it. The license is no longer in use. Should my game license just incinerate once I uninstall the game? No other software works that way.

Could you imagine if you bought the new Adobe Suite for $1400, and Adobe had this mentality? Saying "they don't have to allow you to do anything" is like saying ethics and good customer service is not important to big business. Maybe they technically don't "have to" but the consumer will always win, because we are the reason they are in business at all.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Marshall Honorof Streaming Video & TVs 1
G Streaming Video & TVs 6
G Streaming Video & TVs 0
G Streaming Video & TVs 0
G Streaming Video & TVs 0
G Streaming Video & TVs 0
G Streaming Video & TVs 3
exfileme Streaming Video & TVs 8
exfileme Streaming Video & TVs 21
exfileme Streaming Video & TVs 12
G Streaming Video & TVs 13
exfileme Streaming Video & TVs 32
exfileme Streaming Video & TVs 12
G Streaming Video & TVs 20
G Streaming Video & TVs 39
G Streaming Video & TVs 22
G Streaming Video & TVs 4
exfileme Streaming Video & TVs 78
exfileme Streaming Video & TVs 20
exfileme Streaming Video & TVs 4

ASK THE COMMUNITY