Valve Won't Change Business Model Despite European Ruling

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Resale is LEGAL PERIOD! Regardless of what anyone says. Businesses CAN NOT make money if resale is illegal! Digital products are DRM PERIOD! With how its set up. You can
try resale your digital product but no company will help facilitate it as it will cost more then its
worth(making a system for resale, tax collecting, anti-fraud, etc. etc.). Also since the buyer
is now a seller by reselling the bought product; will get hit with taxes also. Reselling digital
products has to many headaches with less return while physical products less headache
with a bigger return.
 

xtc28

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By signing their TOS we did not relinquish our right to complain or try to get the industry to change their impractical business model. This is all about squeezing money from places they haven't been able to squeeze from before. This would also be like saying we couldn't have garage sales anymore or saying second hand stores such as goodwill, Gamestop and countless others could no longer operate. This business model is insane. The same model should be upheld for software as is for physical items. Just because it is digital doesn't mean it isn't an end consumer product that can purchased and sold many times over as long as the end user license is not in use by the original purchaser. The same could be said for Microsoft when they refuse to let you transfer a copy of windows to another person or machine even though it is no longer in use on the original PC. This should not be allowed to happen.
 

scannall

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[citation][nom]xtc28[/nom]By signing their TOS we did not relinquish our right to complain or try to get the industry to change their impractical business model. This is all about squeezing money from places they haven't been able to squeeze from before. This would also be like saying we couldn't have garage sales anymore or saying second hand stores such as goodwill, Gamestop and countless others could no longer operate. This business model is insane. The same model should be upheld for software as is for physical items. Just because it is digital doesn't mean it isn't an end consumer product that can purchased and sold many times over as long as the end user license is not in use by the original purchaser. The same could be said for Microsoft when they refuse to let you transfer a copy of windows to another person or machine even though it is no longer in use on the original PC. This should not be allowed to happen.[/citation]

If you don't like the model, then don't buy the product. If you do buy the product, honor your word. It isn't that hard.
 
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[citation][nom]beardguy[/nom]@tlm manWho the hell cares if you "agreed to the terms"... are you a lawyer or a consumer? Those of us "bitching" are not trying to play semantics, so if you want to play that game, we can argue about the TOS then. It comes back to the same principle, if I legally purchase a game, I should have the right to resell it if I please. Whether you want to call that a "license transfer" or whatever, doesn't matter. "And like many have said, Steam is a service that offers many games at great discounts." This is irrelevant. Are you saying because I got a game at a discount through Steam, I should not be able to resell it? Why does that matter? Besides Amazon has better deals than Steam anyways. Also, I find LOTS (read, tons) of games on clearance at retail stores. I don't need Steam to find awesome deals. And I can resell those games if I desire.[/citation]

A man knocks on your door and asks to come inside. Before entering he tells you that if you agree, he will give you something but rob you of all your possessions. You choose to let the man inside because you are curious to see what he has to offer. When the man robs you blind, who do you blame?

You agreed to pay money for something you knew you couldn't sell back. You can call it unfair and throw a tantrum all you want, but at the end of the day, you're the idiot who consented to it and expects a different result afterwards.

The only legitimate argument here is for games that force people to use Steam. And in that case, the boxes are clearly marked to indicate such. Stop being an ignorant consumer and do your due diligence.

As for the irrelevance of my comment about Steam having good sales, it obviously wasn't irrelevant enough for you to not follow up on it. No where did I say that Steam was the only place to find deals or that no other distributor ever has better deals than Steam. If you like to purchase your games somewhere else, then by all means go right ahead. That's not what this conversation is even about.

It's obvious you're just a self-entitled Steam hate-boy that expects companies to bend over backwards for you and comply whatever your little wishes are.
 

beardguy

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[citation][nom]scannall[/nom]It would be refreshing if people like you would just admit that you aren't honest, and your word has no value. That contracts are just pretend things that you have no intention of following.[/citation]

Wow nice personal attack. I'm not sure how you can derive all that about me personally from what I said, you must be psychic ( aka:stereotyping )

I know you are a hypocrite because, like me, you don't read through pages upon pages of legal jargon before you hit "accept tos". And please don't try and pretend that you do.


 

xtc28

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Another thing I want to add here is that as long as we have signed and agreed to their terms we don't have a right to sell said purchased property. With that being said I think that we as consumers need to step up and make them change their practices. Otherwise it is us who will get hurt in the pocket book not them. The entertainment industry will Continue to make money and find new ways to make money on what we already purchased or we can make them create something new worth buying. On another note, by the entertainment industries attempt at internet censorship/Control only furthers my point.
 
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[citation][nom]xtc28[/nom]By signing their TOS we did not relinquish our right to complain or try to get the industry to change their impractical business model.[/citation]

No, you certainly did not, but expecting that your complaints will produce results every time is just mind-numbing stupidity. Some users in this thread are practically demanding it be changed and are claiming it's an affront to our Constitutional liberties and God-given rights...

Yes, resale is legal. That does not mean denying resale is illegal. Logical fail.

Don't like it? Don't support the company. Speak with your wallet, not your clearly uninformed mouth (not directed at you, personally).

I'm sick of consumers who want everything handed to them. Start taking responsibility for your own actions and research things before you support them. Ignorance is the reason the industry is dominated by sub-par sequels and droves of overpriced DLC.
 

xtc28

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I actually like steam and their service. I buy from them and many other sources weekly. This does not mean that the no resale policy should be valid. This conversation as tlm man stated is not about games that are required to use steam but about the resale of an end user product. Also, just because someone uses a product dissent mean that the user MUST like the business practices of the industry that the product comes from. And another thing this isn't just about Steam. This is growing problem for us as consumers in many different industries not just gaming.
 

kinggraves

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[citation][nom]xtc28[/nom]Another thing I want to add here is that as long as we have signed and agreed to their terms we don't have a right to sell said purchased property. With that being said I think that we as consumers need to step up and make them change their practices. Otherwise it is us who will get hurt in the pocket book not them. The entertainment industry will Continue to make money and find new ways to make money on what we already purchased or we can make them create something new worth buying. On another note, by the entertainment industries attempt at internet censorship/Control only furthers my point.[/citation]

It's pretty easy to do in this case, don't buy it. The consumer has ALL of the power. Video games are not a necessity, they are a luxury. If gamers could control themselves enough to officially sign a petition AND really boycott a game, even a SINGLE game in massive numbers, you would see a change in the industry. Instead they rage in forums and then turn around and CONTINUE to buy the product. I guarantee you most of the people who are upset about this will continue to buy games off Steam. The one thing I do not want to see however is government intervention in private business practices. If you keep asking Uncle Sam to beat up all your bullies for you, eventually he's just going to follow you around whether you need it or not.

Are you sure you want this change though? It is because they're selling licenses and not retail games that Steam offers low prices and bundles. You can probably buy Steam discounts cheaper than buying the game retail used and bringing it back to Gamestop to sell it. Force them to change and you might not like the result. I'm pretty sure the complainers want to have their cake and eat it too. They want low prices but also resale. They want to buy a game for $10 and sell a game for $10. Grow up, that's not how economics works. Luxuries do not come free, you'll pay in the end no matter what.
 

xtc28

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[citation][nom]tlm man[/nom]No, you certainly did not, but expecting that your complaints will produce results every time is just mind-numbing stupidity. Some users in this thread are practically demanding it be changed and are claiming it's an affront to our Constitutional liberties and God-given rights...Yes, resale is legal. That does not mean denying resale is illegal. Logical fail.Don't like it? Don't support the company. Speak with your wallet, not your clearly uninformed mouth (not directed at you, personally).I'm sick of consumers who want everything handed to them. Start taking responsibility for your own actions and research things before you support them. Ignorance is the reason the industry is dominated by sub-par sequels and droves of overpriced DLC.[/citation]
Now I know you said it was not directed at me, BUT .... here is the thing you sir do not know who is informed or uninformed in this argument that has been set before us. Most consumers do not do enough research to justify a bitching session. This is a given!! BUT ..... those of us who care about where our future lies in the great beyond of impractical business practices dont have much choice in the matter play the game or don't play the game. BUT..... the problem is that the companies doing this know that if there are not any other choices then they can model it the way they like, such as Apple, Microsoft, Steam, Origin, Banks, governments, and the different arms of the entertainment industries. These entities want us policed so as we don't get money they think they deserve. Well who is there to police those entities that wants the money we deserve. These entities also think they can tell us what to do and how we should have to hold it. This is absolutely absurd!!!!! Don't they get their money from us the people, the consumers, the little guys? IT IS OUR RIGHT TO DEMAND A BETTER SYSTEM!! At least one that is beneficial to all. Now .... it is highly improbable that my last statement will actually happen because most people (for some reason) believe that these companies and entities have the right to treat us as they wish. Saying "Speak with your pocket book" is not a good way of acting. We must use their methods and that is the LAW! There are not enough people that are willing to give up playing the game to step up to the companies. THIS is why the method of "Speaking with your pocket book" will not work. Some policing must happen and the Trade Commission must step up. Courts and governments are investigating these practices I can assure you and rulings are being made. Now these businesses MUST be held accountable and MUST change their ways. It is either this or our freedoms as we know them will cease. When an individual no longer can own a piece of property whether it be land, a car, a book, a game or what ever it will be a bad day for humanity and bringing us back to Government/Corporate controlled police state.
 

guardianangel42

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No one's likely to see this comment but Valve is in a unique position to revolutionize the used games market. I've always said that developers should get a cut of used game sales just to appease them. Valve can do that.

It's such a closed system that they can just introduce a resale page for gamers to sell their games and Valve can simply siphon off a cut for themselves and the developers like a tax.

That way everyone wins.
 

choji7

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I kinda agree with Valve on this. When I buy games on steam, I don't think of it as buying a digital copy of the game, but rather a license for the game.
 

xtc28

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[citation][nom]kinggraves[/nom]It's pretty easy to do in this case, don't buy it. The consumer has ALL of the power. Video games are not a necessity, they are a luxury. If gamers could control themselves enough to officially sign a petition AND really boycott a game, even a SINGLE game in massive numbers, you would see a change in the industry. Instead they rage in forums and then turn around and CONTINUE to buy the product. I guarantee you most of the people who are upset about this will continue to buy games off Steam. The one thing I do not want to see however is government intervention in private business practices. If you keep asking Uncle Sam to beat up all your bullies for you, eventually he's just going to follow you around whether you need it or not.Are you sure you want this change though? It is because they're selling licenses and not retail games that Steam offers low prices and bundles. You can probably buy Steam discounts cheaper than buying the game retail used and bringing it back to Gamestop to sell it. Force them to change and you might not like the result. I'm pretty sure the complainers want to have their cake and eat it too. They want low prices but also resale. They want to buy a game for $10 and sell a game for $10. Grow up, that's not how economics works. Luxuries do not come free, you'll pay in the end no matter what.[/citation]
I hate to say it BUB but the Government is already all into private business, including mine. They set laws and regulations that I must follow and adhere to. If I do not I am fined until I either change what I do or go out of business. The reasons why could be as simple as non-competitive practices. This is exactly what these companies are doing to us. They are simply saying you can not compete with us on selling games. That is all this is about not anything else and all these other comments are meaningless, such as "Don't buy from them
if you don't like it!" The point is that these products will continue to be bought by me and many others, BUT they should NOT have a different set of rules to follow than other end consumer products. PERIOD!!!!
 

filterkid

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@ guardianangel42

Now you are speaking my language :) Killing off the used games market is a huge mistake. But a somewhere-in-between solution would be welcome. It's either that, or certain developers can have it their way (kill reselling of used games), and watch piracy go through the roof.
 

tk1138

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valve and steam sucks never bought from that bull shit and i would never use it except for the fact that i bought IL2 cliffs of dover that requires steam....even thought it says it no where on the box....so now i have to deal with this shit software (steam) on my computer just so i can run a game....
 

xtc28

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[citation][nom]guardianangel42[/nom]No one's likely to see this comment but Valve is in a unique position to revolutionize the used games market. I've always said that developers should get a cut of used game sales just to appease them. Valve can do that. It's such a closed system that they can just introduce a resale page for gamers to sell their games and Valve can simply siphon off a cut for themselves and the developers like a tax.That way everyone wins.[/citation]
Yes this is more of the way it should be. [citation][nom]filterkid[/nom]@ guardianangel42Now you are speaking my language Killing off the used games market is a huge mistake. But a somewhere-in-between solution would be welcome. It's either that, or certain developers can have it their way (kill reselling of used games), and watch piracy go through the roof.[/citation]

I for on e agree with this way of thinking. Although I am not saying I will be one to pirate the games or other things but this is true none the less.
 

shqtth

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[citation][nom]guardianangel42[/nom]No one's likely to see this comment but Valve is in a unique position to revolutionize the used games market. I've always said that developers should get a cut of used game sales just to appease them. Valve can do that. It's such a closed system that they can just introduce a resale page for gamers to sell their games and Valve can simply siphon off a cut for themselves and the developers like a tax.That way everyone wins.[/citation]

good idea
 

j2j663

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[citation][nom]A Bad Day[/nom]As much as I dislike some of the practices.Do keep in mind that developers need something to live on. Money doesn't grow on trees.[/citation]

If anyone here seriously thinks that there is not enough money being made in the video game industry and that developers are scraping by because we pirate and/or resell games, they are crazy.

The only reason the developers don't get the money they deserve is because of the studio's and the owners of those studios. They have gobs of money and with every tactic of making more money, you can bet that they are looking out for themselves and have very little incentive to pay the developers any more than they are already making.

It is completely false logic that if Steam or Valve or Activision or Blizzard or whoever make more money by stopping pirates that the developers or anyone else who works there will see any more money on their next paycheck.
 
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My "warped views" seem to be supported by people much more knowledgeable on the subject of law than myself (you know, the European Court of Justice). Aside from that, though, my fellow consumers seem to agree with me, too.
Am I a troll, or do you simply disagree with my views and call me a sheep for . . . disagreeing with the status quo?

Hahahaha, you're funny. It's interesting how people will project their own feelings and insecurities onto others.


As for being anon . . . does it matter? I could register an account by the name of Tehol, which I do on many sites. It's not like you know my RL identify by seeing a non-anon forum handle.
 
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LOL I DONT CARE who you are, what you are. I disagree with you bashing at people
without first reading their post correctly and answering them back correctly. AND again
learn to read people's post before you offer comment as of now your comments just show
its ill informed. And again doesn't matter what I think or feel as i am speaking my mind with
thought. How typical of someone that repeatedly bashes others but cant take criticism
themselves. So go on and keep trolling its your god given right(sarcasm here) :p
 
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