Valve Won't Change Business Model Despite European Ruling

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croc

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"We should remember that we live in a generation where people think they are entitled to everything, including the change of a business policy. Valve does not and should not have to change anything how they operate they're business just because of a bunch of whiny brats who think they are entitled to different circumstances. Don't like it? Tough luck. You should of thought about that before you agreed to they're TOS. You could of easily taken your money else where if you don't like it. Don't expect a company to give up its beliefs just because it upsets you. I thought we lived in a world where "freedom" was valued? Does Valve not have these so called "freedoms" to use to operate how they wish? I think they're doing a perfect job with the DD market."

Jane, you ignorant Slut! Whenever I plunk down MY money for a product, I feel ENTITLED by RIGHT OF PURCHASE to use MY product ANY WAY I WANT. And if I want to sell MY product to Joe Bloggs, well that is (or should be) between me and Joe. NOT between Me, Joe, and ....Valve, MS, Apple, or you, you ignorant Slut! Get Off of MY LAWN!!!!! And as to your Ignorant Terms of Service... I'll abide by the terms of service when they give me just as much recourse as they give the company hiding the damned things inside a shrink-wrapped box, saying that the act of breaking the shrink-wrap means that I accepted their TOS. Tossers. And apparently you are their BITCH!
 

beardguy

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[citation][nom]scannall[/nom]You knew you couldn't when you gave Steam money. If you don't like their business, then don't use them. Is it really that hard?[/citation]

It's not that simple. Steam is required for many games to even launch. So where I may decide to not give Steam anymore of my money to buy games, I'm still stuck using their service if I want to play many of the best games. Trust me, I won't be giving Steam anymore of my money through digital sales. But even games I bought retail (recently: Deus Ex: Human Revolution) requires Steam to play. I should have the ability to run this game without Steam at all.
 

teh_chem

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So, does this mean that Steam cannot ban/lock your account if you sell a game now? I mean, in the EU anyway?

I never cared about reselling games. Don't know that I've ever sold a game I've purchased in my entire life. And since I never buy AAA titles at debut prices, it's not like I'm spending an arm and a leg on any one game.

I still can't fathom why people are comparing digital licenses to physical objects and ownership. Even if you pay to "have" (more accurately "use") a piece of software, you do not own it. You've paid to use it, but you have no ownership of the content. That being said, resale of digital content is not new. It might not be the best example since MS Windows licenses are tied to a piece of computer hardware and not a person, but there's nothing prohibiting you from "selling" your license to someone else, so long as it resides on the same computer (if it's an OEM version), with the sale of that computer to someone else. Or selling a "full retail" version of windows to someone else (whether it's installed or not). Why are video games all of a sudden so different?

I don't see how this is honestly going to negatively impact the game industry since it seems like so many people (gamers) these days have patience and instant-gratification issues. Most people who want to play the game right away will pay the premium debut price. And most people who would buy the game used probably wouldn't buy the game at full-price in the first place, if at all (i.e., not a huge impact to overall sales monies). I honestly couldn't care less if Valve goes along and facilitates the resale of licenses, but I also don't see that it would make a huge impact in the bottom line for any company making or selling (decent) games if digital license resale is universally legal.
 

scannall

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[citation][nom]beardguy[/nom]It's not that simple. Steam is required for many games to even launch. So where I may decide to not give Steam anymore of my money to buy games, I'm still stuck using their service if I want to play many of the best games. Trust me, I won't be giving Steam anymore of my money through digital sales. But even games I bought retail (recently: Deus Ex: Human Revolution) requires Steam to play. I should have the ability to run this game without Steam at all.[/citation]

No you shouldn't. You knew the deal when you gave Steam money. Buyers remorse isn't a valid complaint. It just shows you something you need to work on with yourself.
 

wardler

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[citation][nom]TeholTheJust[/nom]Whatever, Valve. Steam is cool, but every time you try to control how consumers consume their PURCHASES, they will rebel. Enter pirates and torrenting.I swear, do none of these business geniuses consider the human impact of all these annoying attempts to control and derive more profit? I feel compelled to pirate if for no other reason than to spite these assholes.[/citation]

And when you sell a used game to someone, who pays for the download from the Steam servers? Steam does... I can see this working only if Steam were able to take a small cut of the profit from reselling a game. Just remember if Steam allowed this it would drop their buying power and we might see a lot less good deals coming from them.
 

vertigo_2000

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The resale of used games can help the gaming industry in some respects. If someone can't afford to purchase a new game and does not have the ability to sell the games they currently own in a used game market, he/she may resort to pirating the game instead (especially if it's a game they really want). However, if that same person can sell some of their used games in order to raise the money to purchase the new game legally, the game industry wins. Yes, they don't see a dime of the used game sales, but generally, by then, they've already recouped their costs on the games and hopefully turned a profit.
 

hoofhearted

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Every here seems to be sticking by Valve on this and I happen to love Steam myself, but this is law and from my understanding, law supercedes TOS, so I smell a lawsuit in the near future on this. I can see Valve easily making this actually work to their advantage. They already have the ability to "gift" a game. Why not let the user "sell" a game. Then have it listed next to their "new" games as "used by seller", similar to how Amazon lists it's products and then take a transaction fee of some sort, maybe a percentage or fixed fee, something they can calculate such that it won't out-compete their new product. Even give a cut of this to the developer. It may even increase profit in the form of increasing transaction volume. Even set it up such that funds from this are only good toward purchases on Steam, not reversible back to real cash. And all of you saying that you should have known when you agreed to the TOS, I guess the workers at foxconn shouldn't be complaining since they agreed to take the job. Or if a boss makes you sign a paper agreeing to work for less than minimum wage and you really need the job.
 

rantoc

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This will reduce piracy, shame that a court case won't make valve change their service and allow users to exercise their legal right. They earn millions each day by refusing their customers their rights, held Valve in high regards once back in the day before steam took of for real, after that its all been about making more money and apparently disobey laws as well... there is an old saying that rings more true each day - power corrupts!
 

scannall

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[citation][nom]rantoc[/nom]This will reduce piracy, shame that a court case won't make valve change their service and allow users to exercise their legal right. They earn millions each day by refusing their customers their rights, held Valve in high regards once back in the day before steam took of for real, after that its all been about making more money and apparently disobey laws as well... there is an old saying that rings more true each day - power corrupts![/citation]

Please show me where in the Constitution you have a right to resell licenses and break or change the terms of a contract after you have agreed to it.

You knew and accepted the terms when you spent the money. Why can you not now take responsibility for your own actions?
 

kinggraves

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[citation][nom]hoofhearted[/nom]Every here seems to be sticking by Valve on this and I happen to love Steam myself, but this is law and from my understanding, law supercedes TOS, so I smell a lawsuit in the near future on this.[/citation]

Great, lawsuits, America's answer to everything. Except there's no law being broken to supercede the ToS. It is not illegal for a company to not sell used products. This isn't the Soviet Union, the government does not tell private businesses how to operate. Oddly enough, I am not supporting Valve. I said from the start when fanboys gushed about those low, low prices on Steam that it would come back and bite them because they were only purchasing a digital copy. What I support is intelligent consumerism, something apparently lost.

[citation][nom]hoofhearted[/nom]And all of you saying that you should have known when you agreed to the TOS, I guess the workers at foxconn shouldn't be complaining since they agreed to take the job. Or if a boss makes you sign a paper agreeing to work for less than minimum wage and you really need the job.[/citation]

What grasping comparisons. A video game is not required to feed your family, and you are not forced to sign the ToS. There is NOTHING in common other than both happen to involve contracts. If you rent a car and get inside then does that mean that despite it being a rental contract you can do whatever you want with the car for however long you want because you're sitting in it? You bought a digital copy and agreed to the leasing of that digital product. Admit you made a bad purchase instead of crying like spoiled brats, you agreed to not sell it.
 

bigdragon

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Having the ability to resell games or purchase used games would make me much more likely to spend money on games. Right now I heavily research games before I buy them and am unwilling to shell out money on games I don't think are good enough. I don't tend to give new ideas or franchises a try as a result. The high cost keeps me away. I know digital store owners, developers, and publishers see resold games as a negative, but it's one way I've gotten into a couple franchises.
 

rantoc

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[citation][nom]scannall[/nom]Please show me where in the Constitution you have a right to resell licenses and break or change the terms of a contract after you have agreed to it.You knew and accepted the terms when you spent the money. Why can you not now take responsibility for your own actions?[/citation]

A contract is always superseded by the law and in this case the European law say that consumers are allowed to resell software and even licensed software as the Court ruling also concluded. As for ToS's and the like company's can't place a term that forces you to commit suicide for instance and expect you to do so because its legal, perhaps some would obey that suicide term like some nice little corporate bitch's but most don't because they aren't stupid enough to follow everything blindly.

The company's are the ones who have to take responsibility, if they can't do business in a part of the world according to the law they should not be there. Try to show down a ToS in the throat like it were over the law is laughable, bet you will understand some day too but judging by the above, that will take a while. Open the eyes and think for yourself for once might be a good first step!
 

scannall

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[citation][nom]rantoc[/nom]A contract is always superseded by the law and in this case the European law say that consumers are allowed to resell software and even licensed software as the Court ruling also concluded. As for ToS's and the like company's can't place a term that forces you to commit suicide for instance and expect you to do so because its legal, perhaps some would obey that suicide term like some nice little corporate bitch's but most don't because they aren't stupid enough to follow everything blindly.The company's are the ones who have to take responsibility, if they can't do business in a part of the world according to the law they should not be there. Try to show down a ToS in the throat like it were over the law is laughable, bet you will understand some day too but judging by the above, that will take a while. Open the eyes and think for yourself for once might be a good first step![/citation]

I do think for myself. I think when I buy something. And I honor the terms. Not whine and cry like a spoiled brat. Go ahead, get your way. And watch game prices rise for everyone just because some of you can't be bothered to think ahead. Thanks for the screwing, I appreciate it.
 

xtc28

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Here is the the issue. These gaming companies are just like any other tech company, they develop a technology and then use that technology to create a product. When we buy the product it is the product that we own not the technology that was used to create it. Therefor we own the product. As with any product we purchase we own that product and have the right to sell it. In the case of licensing for use of a product......... This should not be allowed unless the purchased software is used to create another product in which the intended creation directly relies on the software licensed. Now since we are not licensing the game engine to create a new game but we are purchasing the end product we should have the right to claim ownership of our individual copy of said purchase. This is not saying that we own the technology or the game itself, but the copy we bought. Just as we purchase a flat screen TV. That individual unit becomes the purchasers property after the exchange of currency. Again we didn't purchase the patent for the technology itself but an individual unit of an end product that becomes the purchasers property, Therefore when the owner sees fit to sell the property that is owned it is legal to do so.
 

tdenton1138

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[citation][nom]A Bad Day[/nom]As much as I dislike some of the practices.Do keep in mind that developers need something to live on. Money doesn't grow on trees.[/citation]

[citation][nom]Zingam_Duo[/nom]It's made of trees.[/citation]

Good line, but not so much any more. The majority of money is now digitized and that can be taken away with the flip of a bit...
 
G

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I am also with Valve on this one. Granted, I do sympathize with the notion that when you buy a game on Steam, you are purchasing an item, not a license, and as a consumer you should be entitled to sell it. However, as a consumer you consented to agree to the Steam TOS and fully acknowledged the fact that you can't sell or trade games after you buy them. Is it fair? Is it morally correct? I can't say, but the one thing I can say for certain is that you agreed to the terms, and by doing so you waived your right to bitch about it and demand it be changed.

And like many have said, Steam is a service that offers many games at great discounts. I'm sure some of you are just COD-tards that have realized the errors in your ways and want to return your twentieth copy of COD4 rebranded with zombies.

This reminds me of all the D3 whining, where thousands of people purchased a game they knew would be locked by DRM, lack LAN games, require a persistent connection, and feature a real money auction house. Then after buying it they have the nerve to complain like the wool was pulled over their eyes and they were swindled into purchasing something without knowing the facts! No, the hard truth is that you didn't do your due diligence beforehand and you have only yourself to blame for it. And yes, acting like it's the companies fault and demanding they remedy it is being "entitled."
 

beardguy

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@tlm man

Who the hell cares if you "agreed to the terms"... are you a lawyer or a consumer? Those of us "bitching" are not trying to play semantics, so if you want to play that game, we can argue about the TOS then. It comes back to the same principle, if I legally purchase a game, I should have the right to resell it if I please. Whether you want to call that a "license transfer" or whatever, doesn't matter.

"And like many have said, Steam is a service that offers many games at great discounts."

This is irrelevant. Are you saying because I got a game at a discount through Steam, I should not be able to resell it? Why does that matter? Besides Amazon has better deals than Steam anyways. Also, I find LOTS (read, tons) of games on clearance at retail stores. I don't need Steam to find awesome deals. And I can resell those games if I desire.
 

scannall

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[citation][nom]beardguy[/nom]@tlm manWho the hell cares if you "agreed to the terms"... are you a lawyer or a consumer? Those of us "bitching" are not trying to play semantics, so if you want to play that game, we can argue about the TOS then. It comes back to the same principle, if I legally purchase a game, I should have the right to resell it if I please. Whether you want to call that a "license transfer" or whatever, doesn't matter. "And like many have said, Steam is a service that offers many games at great discounts." This is irrelevant. Are you saying because I got a game at a discount through Steam, I should not be able to resell it? Why does that matter? Besides Amazon has better deals than Steam anyways. Also, I find LOTS (read, tons) of games on clearance at retail stores. I don't need Steam to find awesome deals. And I can resell those games if I desire.[/citation]


It would be refreshing if people like you would just admit that you aren't honest, and your word has no value. That contracts are just pretend things that you have no intention of following.
 
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