what vocal effect?

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For example, what effect/technique is used on The Offspring's singer's voice
to make it sound so full and present....it almost sounds like a two vocals
tracks play over one another or are played slightly different in stereo. It
also seems present on some Stone Temple Pilots stuff....I notice a similar
sound in a lot of commercially produced music and other times in other types
of music (and always in "older" recordings) it is not there at all. Is it
some magic mic, stereo effect, or just a modern singing style?

--

Jonny Durango

"Patrick was a saint. I ain't."

http://www.jdurango.com
 
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jonny wrote
>For example, what effect/technique is used on The Offspring's singer's voice
>to make it sound so full and present....it almost sounds like a two vocals
>tracks play over one another or are played slightly different in stereo. It
>also seems present on some Stone Temple Pilots stuff....I notice a similar
>sound in a lot of commercially produced music and other times in other types
>of music (and always in "older" recordings) it is not there at all. Is it
>some magic mic, stereo effect, or just a modern singing style?

It's a type of delay called "double," you can do it with a regular delay unit
or plug-in, if it has a good adjustment for milliseconds.
I think it may have started back in the 50's and or 60's with a lot of Elvis
recordings.
 
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"Jonny Durango" <jonnybush_from_officedurango1@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:OITYc.428$3l3.329@attbi_s03...
> For example, what effect/technique is used on The Offspring's singer's
voice
> to make it sound so full and present....it almost sounds like a two vocals
> tracks play over one another or are played slightly different in stereo.
It
> also seems present on some Stone Temple Pilots stuff....I notice a similar
> sound in a lot of commercially produced music and other times in other
types
> of music (and always in "older" recordings) it is not there at all. Is it
> some magic mic, stereo effect, or just a modern singing style?

I'm not familiar with them so I pulled up a song called "Self Esteem" on
Rhapsody. It just sounds like doubling (REAL double tracking, not a delay)
with possibly a short room effect (either an effects unit or possibly just
some of the real room ambience). It's not double tracked during the verses
(only uses the room effect). He doubles in the choruses (and some lines in
the verses).
 
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> I'm not familiar with them so I pulled up a song called "Self Esteem" on
> Rhapsody. It just sounds like doubling (REAL double tracking, not a delay)
> with possibly a short room effect (either an effects unit or possibly just
> some of the real room ambience). It's not double tracked during the verses
> (only uses the room effect). He doubles in the choruses (and some lines in
> the verses).

So it would be a duplicate vocal track with delay/reverb added? I would
think this would just achieve the same sound of a single vocal track with a
reverb effect's "mix" levels turned down. Is the second track moved slightly
out of sequence or "groove quantized" (to borrow a midi term) or something?
I hear this a lot on newer recordings, makes a regularly flat, one
dimensional voice seem round and textured and almost unnatural. It's hard to
describe, The Offspring is the most glaring example I could think of. Anyhow
thanks muchos for the help. I'll expiriment with doubling vocals tracks and
adding different effects and panning.

--

Jonny Durango

"Patrick was a saint. I ain't."

http://www.jdurango.com



"Ricky W. Hunt" <rhunt22@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7jVYc.7988$_g7.4352@attbi_s52...
> "Jonny Durango" <jonnybush_from_officedurango1@comcast.net> wrote in
message
> news:OITYc.428$3l3.329@attbi_s03...
> > For example, what effect/technique is used on The Offspring's singer's
> voice
> > to make it sound so full and present....it almost sounds like a two
vocals
> > tracks play over one another or are played slightly different in stereo.
> It
> > also seems present on some Stone Temple Pilots stuff....I notice a
similar
> > sound in a lot of commercially produced music and other times in other
> types
> > of music (and always in "older" recordings) it is not there at all. Is
it
> > some magic mic, stereo effect, or just a modern singing style?
>
> I'm not familiar with them so I pulled up a song called "Self Esteem" on
> Rhapsody. It just sounds like doubling (REAL double tracking, not a delay)
> with possibly a short room effect (either an effects unit or possibly just
> some of the real room ambience). It's not double tracked during the verses
> (only uses the room effect). He doubles in the choruses (and some lines in
> the verses).
>
>
 
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> It's a type of delay called "double," you can do it with a regular delay
unit
> or plug-in, if it has a good adjustment for milliseconds.
> I think it may have started back in the 50's and or 60's with a lot of
Elvis
> recordings.

Well the Elvis-style rockabilly vocal effect wasn't really what I was
thinking of, but the illusive effect does sound kinda like a really super
fast delay that only repeats maybe once or twice. It's barely noticable
unlike the elvis stuff....kinda gives a full "organ voice" quality as
opposed to a flat sound. Thanks a ton for the advice, i'll try messing
around with the delay unit tomorrow.

--

Jonny Durango

"Patrick was a saint. I ain't."

http://www.jdurango.com



"Raymond" <bruwhaha58097238@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040831022729.27615.00000008@mb-m01.aol.com...
> jonny wrote
> >For example, what effect/technique is used on The Offspring's singer's
voice
> >to make it sound so full and present....it almost sounds like a two
vocals
> >tracks play over one another or are played slightly different in stereo.
It
> >also seems present on some Stone Temple Pilots stuff....I notice a
similar
> >sound in a lot of commercially produced music and other times in other
types
> >of music (and always in "older" recordings) it is not there at all. Is it
> >some magic mic, stereo effect, or just a modern singing style?
>
> It's a type of delay called "double," you can do it with a regular delay
unit
> or plug-in, if it has a good adjustment for milliseconds.
> I think it may have started back in the 50's and or 60's with a lot of
Elvis
> recordings.
 
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<< It's a type of delay called "double," you can do it with a regular delay
unit
or plug-in, if it has a good adjustment for milliseconds.
I think it may have started back in the 50's and or 60's with a lot of Elvis
recordings. >>

A "double" delay is more in the 30 to 40 millesecond range, while the Elvis
echo is a tape machine slapback echo of about 100 to 120 milleseconds.


Scott Fraser
 
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"ScotFraser" <scotfraser@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040831113714.20025.00001953@mb-m25.aol.com...
> << It's a type of delay called "double," you can do it with a regular
delay
> unit
> or plug-in, if it has a good adjustment for milliseconds.
> I think it may have started back in the 50's and or 60's with a lot of
Elvis
> recordings. >>
>
> A "double" delay is more in the 30 to 40 millesecond range, while the
Elvis
> echo is a tape machine slapback echo of about 100 to 120 milleseconds.

Yes. That threshold at which most are supposedly able to differentiate two
notes is 30 seconds (which seems a little long to me actually). That's why I
told him sliding that identical track around is just going to create the
same effect as an EQ (though with a more out-of-phase quality that I happen
to hate) in those ranges from 1 to around 30ms. Then it will turn into plain
old, boring digital lay (not even tape delay which at least had some
character). After that it can be OK when it gets in the slapback range
you're talking about with a little reverb or room ala the rock-a-billy
thing. But unless he records two (or more) passes he won't get anything near
the sound he's going for.
 
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<< So it would be a duplicate vocal track with delay/reverb added? I would
think this would just achieve the same sound of a single vocal track with a
reverb effect's "mix" levels turned down.>>

A true double is different in that there are minute timing & pitch differences
on a moment to moment basis. An offset delay just sounds like ambience instead
of an actual second performance.

<< Is the second track moved slightly
out of sequence or "groove quantized" (to borrow a midi term) or something?>>

It doesn't need to be, since even with the best singers there will always be
slight timing discrepencies with the first track, & that's what gives it the
full, fat sound.

<<I hear this a lot on newer recordings, makes a regularly flat, one
dimensional voice seem round and textured and almost unnatural. It's hard to
describe, >>

Steely Dan is an example of vocal doubling done to great effect.
Scott Fraser
 
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Thanks a ton for the advice....can't wait to give this a try on some of my
tracks!

--

Jonny Durango

"Patrick was a saint. I ain't."

http://www.jdurango.com



"ScotFraser" <scotfraser@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040831114901.20025.00001955@mb-m25.aol.com...
> << So it would be a duplicate vocal track with delay/reverb added? I would
> think this would just achieve the same sound of a single vocal track with
a
> reverb effect's "mix" levels turned down.>>
>
> A true double is different in that there are minute timing & pitch
differences
> on a moment to moment basis. An offset delay just sounds like ambience
instead
> of an actual second performance.
>
> << Is the second track moved slightly
> out of sequence or "groove quantized" (to borrow a midi term) or
something?>>
>
> It doesn't need to be, since even with the best singers there will always
be
> slight timing discrepencies with the first track, & that's what gives it
the
> full, fat sound.
>
> <<I hear this a lot on newer recordings, makes a regularly flat, one
> dimensional voice seem round and textured and almost unnatural. It's hard
to
> describe, >>
>
> Steely Dan is an example of vocal doubling done to great effect.
> Scott Fraser
 

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