- Status
It would seem some people here refers the storage prices towards SSD and that is most likely wrong as they are rewritable. MS will most likely choose a cheap non rewritable media for this "cartridge" system. And i bet they will try to make it as proprietary as possible to avoid people making their own home built ones, all so the publishers will be happy and can dictate whatever rules they want!
alextheblue
Distinguished
- Apr 3, 2001
- 640
- 0
- 18,930
I doubt they won't have SOME sort of optical drive option. Either higher-end units will come with one built-in (for playing movies and Xbox 360 disc titles), or it'll be an optional (external?) option. Either way would be fine by me.[citation][nom]technogiant[/nom]Sounds good, a "steam" like account system so you can re-download from the cloud as you require. [/citation]That's already how it works. I can go and delete my digital copy of any game or DLC, and just download it again for free. I can even download it on another system, just like Steam. It has been this way for years.[citation][nom]omega21xx[/nom]Bring games below $50 ($40-50 new release) and they wouldn't have a "problem" with used games. $60 for a new release is just too much.[/citation]People have been moaning about this for years, and when they first raised the prices on new games it sucked. But that was some time ago. It's so stupid to still hear it in 2012. Inflation anyone? Go back to the 90s - a lot of games were $50 or more at launch back then! That means that they actually cost MORE than an equivalent $60 title does now. Hell if games kept pace with inflation we should be paying $70 or more.
[citation][nom]omega21xx[/nom]Most games today install the important, constant accessed data, to the HDD. Moving to an SSD does not provide a advantage in game performance or graphics aside from load times. (and in some cases where ram is short and random seek for files and objects cause popping textures ect. that's mostly just Rage though ) so even today your games are rarely limited by the HDD or DVD (most ps3 and 360 games read from both at the same time while you play)[/citation]
mhm i'm trying to find that video where John Carmack said that console disc has texture loading issues. Like how you combat the issue of a blurry image for 2-3 seconds.
Think of a picture, the more stuff in it, the more space it requires, means the more bandwidth you need to push into that picture. streaming and compressing the bandwidth is a technique you can only push so far.
mhm i'm trying to find that video where John Carmack said that console disc has texture loading issues. Like how you combat the issue of a blurry image for 2-3 seconds.
Think of a picture, the more stuff in it, the more space it requires, means the more bandwidth you need to push into that picture. streaming and compressing the bandwidth is a technique you can only push so far.
haha, this-a-way, you cant play your game on other consoles. games will be bound to the console. . anyone remember the article i seen not too long ago where misrosucks and sony were wanting the used game industry to be stopped? they willl be able to really corner everyone then. and make tons more money too!!!! like my post if you cant stand sony and microsucks...
omega21xx
Distinguished
- Jan 21, 2012
- 122
- 0
- 18,630
[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]i thought the same thing... but than think of it in terms of the 360... most games are less than 8gb in size.[/citation]
A good portion of 360 games use more than one DVD so 8gb for current games is unrealistic as we are going for next gen games which will eat more space more than likely. There are even some games on PS3 using DL-BD (50gb) they may not use the whole 50gb but they use more than 25gb at least.
[citation][nom]rantoc[/nom]It would seem some people here refers the storage prices towards SSD and that is most likely wrong as they are rewritable. MS will most likely choose a cheap non rewritable media for this "cartridge" system. And i bet they will try to make it as proprietary as possible to avoid people making their own home built ones, all so the publishers will be happy and can dictate whatever rules they want![/citation]
They didn't move away from cartridges just because of space, it was cost as well. I don't think this will solve the issue as prices wouldn't go down by much. They'd still cost quite a bit more than BD and not hold much more.
[citation][nom]alextheblue[/nom]People have been moaning about this for years, and when they first raised the prices on new games it sucked. But that was some time ago. It's so stupid to still hear it in 2012. Inflation anyone? Go back to the 90s - a lot of games were $50 or more at launch back then! That means that they actually cost MORE than an equivalent $60 title does now. Hell if games kept pace with inflation we should be paying $70 or more.[/citation]
I guess if you look at it in terms of inflation yes. I honestly think if they lowered the price a bit for digital downloads (much like they already do on steam) you get less piracy, less need to buy used, as the brand new version would already be pretty cheap. Why complain about games being cheaper when it's obviously done nothing but help steam and the like?
[citation][nom]kcorp2003[/nom]mhm i'm trying to find that video where John Carmack said that console disc has texture loading issues. Like how you combat the issue of a blurry image for 2-3 seconds. Think of a picture, the more stuff in it, the more space it requires, means the more bandwidth you need to push into that picture. streaming and compressing the bandwidth is a technique you can only push so far.[/citation]
Yeah, which is what ram is for
load necessary files into ram, little to no bottleneck on performance as you're using fast storage. The only time you run into this sort of problem is in Rage. Megatexture streaming or whatever has to constantly access storage, more ram would fix this of course but consoles have so little. Ps3 has like 256mb ram and 256mb vram (maybe they are shared, not sure it's been a while since i've looked at dated tech)
A good portion of 360 games use more than one DVD so 8gb for current games is unrealistic as we are going for next gen games which will eat more space more than likely. There are even some games on PS3 using DL-BD (50gb) they may not use the whole 50gb but they use more than 25gb at least.
[citation][nom]rantoc[/nom]It would seem some people here refers the storage prices towards SSD and that is most likely wrong as they are rewritable. MS will most likely choose a cheap non rewritable media for this "cartridge" system. And i bet they will try to make it as proprietary as possible to avoid people making their own home built ones, all so the publishers will be happy and can dictate whatever rules they want![/citation]
They didn't move away from cartridges just because of space, it was cost as well. I don't think this will solve the issue as prices wouldn't go down by much. They'd still cost quite a bit more than BD and not hold much more.
[citation][nom]alextheblue[/nom]People have been moaning about this for years, and when they first raised the prices on new games it sucked. But that was some time ago. It's so stupid to still hear it in 2012. Inflation anyone? Go back to the 90s - a lot of games were $50 or more at launch back then! That means that they actually cost MORE than an equivalent $60 title does now. Hell if games kept pace with inflation we should be paying $70 or more.[/citation]
I guess if you look at it in terms of inflation yes. I honestly think if they lowered the price a bit for digital downloads (much like they already do on steam) you get less piracy, less need to buy used, as the brand new version would already be pretty cheap. Why complain about games being cheaper when it's obviously done nothing but help steam and the like?
[citation][nom]kcorp2003[/nom]mhm i'm trying to find that video where John Carmack said that console disc has texture loading issues. Like how you combat the issue of a blurry image for 2-3 seconds. Think of a picture, the more stuff in it, the more space it requires, means the more bandwidth you need to push into that picture. streaming and compressing the bandwidth is a technique you can only push so far.[/citation]
Yeah, which is what ram is for
load necessary files into ram, little to no bottleneck on performance as you're using fast storage. The only time you run into this sort of problem is in Rage. Megatexture streaming or whatever has to constantly access storage, more ram would fix this of course but consoles have so little. Ps3 has like 256mb ram and 256mb vram (maybe they are shared, not sure it's been a while since i've looked at dated tech)
billybobser
Distinguished
- Aug 25, 2011
- 107
- 0
- 18,630
If this is a chance to take a swipe at the 'used' market and make buying the games a long term rental, surely that just fuels the fire of piracy.
Likewise, I'd like my games standalone and not require internet connections to 'check up' on me, should I ever want to play them again in 10 years time when, in all likelyhood, they will be unsupported.
Likewise, I'd like my games standalone and not require internet connections to 'check up' on me, should I ever want to play them again in 10 years time when, in all likelyhood, they will be unsupported.
crisan_tiberiu
Distinguished
- Nov 22, 2010
- 26
- 0
- 18,580
eliminate optical drive = eliminate piracy. Thats the only reason why is this happening. Watching DVDs or BLU rays was a major advantage for the consoles but the piracy was to big.
omega21xx
Distinguished
- Jan 21, 2012
- 122
- 0
- 18,630
[citation][nom]billybobser[/nom]If this is a chance to take a swipe at the 'used' market and make buying the games a long term rental, surely that just fuels the fire of piracy.Likewise, I'd like my games standalone and not require internet connections to 'check up' on me, should I ever want to play them again in 10 years time when, in all likelyhood, they will be unsupported.[/citation]
Haven't played any games from steam that require I be connected to the internet, and i've bought a lot of games from steam. The DRM for having to be internet connected is more of a publisher/game designer choice. So if you have a blizzard game on your console you may be screwed
In no way do I feel they are long term rentals unless they have blizzard like DRM's attached, which so far I haven't run into aside from StarCraft II and some C&C games.
Haven't played any games from steam that require I be connected to the internet, and i've bought a lot of games from steam. The DRM for having to be internet connected is more of a publisher/game designer choice. So if you have a blizzard game on your console you may be screwed
In no way do I feel they are long term rentals unless they have blizzard like DRM's attached, which so far I haven't run into aside from StarCraft II and some C&C games.
omega21xx
Distinguished
- Jan 21, 2012
- 122
- 0
- 18,630
[citation][nom]crisan_tiberiu[/nom]eliminate optical drive = eliminate piracy. Thats the only reason why is this happening. Watching DVDs or BLU rays was a major advantage for the consoles but the piracy was to big.[/citation]
Piracy can't be eliminated, there will always be exploits. Every console I know of could be hacked and have either a Hardmod or Softmod allowing HomeBrew and of course... piracy... Look at the PSP Go. Download only, still hacked.
Piracy can't be eliminated, there will always be exploits. Every console I know of could be hacked and have either a Hardmod or Softmod allowing HomeBrew and of course... piracy... Look at the PSP Go. Download only, still hacked.
[citation][nom]omega21xx[/nom]A good portion of 360 games use more than one DVD so 8gb for current games is unrealistic as we are going for next gen games which will eat more space more than likely. There are even some games on PS3 using DL-BD (50gb) they may not use the whole 50gb but they use more than 25gb at least.They didn't move away from cartridges just because of space, it was cost as well. I don't think this will solve the issue as prices wouldn't go down by much. They'd still cost quite a bit more than BD and not hold much more.I guess if you look at it in terms of inflation yes. I honestly think if they lowered the price a bit for digital downloads (much like they already do on steam) you get less piracy, less need to buy used, as the brand new version would already be pretty cheap. Why complain about games being cheaper when it's obviously done nothing but help steam and the like?Yeah, which is what ram is for load necessary files into ram, little to no bottleneck on performance as you're using fast storage. The only time you run into this sort of problem is in Rage. Megatexture streaming or whatever has to constantly access storage, more ram would fix this of course but consoles have so little. Ps3 has like 256mb ram and 256mb vram (maybe they are shared, not sure it's been a while since i've looked at dated tech)[/citation]
yea, i have never been a fan of movies in games... do it in engine or not at all... thats what takes the majority of of the space.
also with audio... the more i work with it, the less i see the need to go un compressed, you can compress the crap out of vocal work, and it will sound great, if you know what you are doing.
and when you say there are many games that take 2 discs, how much of disc 2 is redundant? as in its on disc 1 and disc 2?
here, i have dragon age origions for the 360 right here, and i have it on steam. game is 20gb on the pc, on the 360 it fits 1 disc, i dont know if that's before or after they opened the discs up a bit so its either a 6 or 8gb game there. if they were a bit smarter about how the textures were compressed, it could have been a great looking game on the system. i'm willing to bet money most ps3 games or pc could compress to under 10gb easily if you were smart about textures.
games back in the day cost 50$ or more, when they used special chips inside them, or when they needed more space and had a physical reason to cost more. back than it wasnt so much the data you payed for, because most games that even look close to those made today are small teams with sub million budgets... the majority of the cost was the media they were on.
with texture loading... thats more about how the files are stored on the disc, and how long the load times are... some games, masseffect, are so bad when it came to loading... it can be done right, but rarely is.
yea, i have never been a fan of movies in games... do it in engine or not at all... thats what takes the majority of of the space.
also with audio... the more i work with it, the less i see the need to go un compressed, you can compress the crap out of vocal work, and it will sound great, if you know what you are doing.
and when you say there are many games that take 2 discs, how much of disc 2 is redundant? as in its on disc 1 and disc 2?
here, i have dragon age origions for the 360 right here, and i have it on steam. game is 20gb on the pc, on the 360 it fits 1 disc, i dont know if that's before or after they opened the discs up a bit so its either a 6 or 8gb game there. if they were a bit smarter about how the textures were compressed, it could have been a great looking game on the system. i'm willing to bet money most ps3 games or pc could compress to under 10gb easily if you were smart about textures.
games back in the day cost 50$ or more, when they used special chips inside them, or when they needed more space and had a physical reason to cost more. back than it wasnt so much the data you payed for, because most games that even look close to those made today are small teams with sub million budgets... the majority of the cost was the media they were on.
with texture loading... thats more about how the files are stored on the disc, and how long the load times are... some games, masseffect, are so bad when it came to loading... it can be done right, but rarely is.
mikenygmail
Distinguished
- Aug 29, 2009
- 43
- 0
- 18,580
buzznut
Distinguished
- Sep 26, 2007
- 156
- 0
- 18,660
This is stupid. They would sell more units if they include bluray. Plus games will continue to be developed for discs well into the foreseeable future, whether thats DVD, Bluray or whatever. I also think its too early to ask people to download all their software. I know I still like having the disc.
omega21xx
Distinguished
- Jan 21, 2012
- 122
- 0
- 18,630
[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]yea, i have never been a fan of movies in games... do it in engine or not at all... thats what takes the majority of of the space. also with audio... the more i work with it, the less i see the need to go un compressed, you can compress the crap out of vocal work, and it will sound great, if you know what you are doing.and when you say there are many games that take 2 discs, how much of disc 2 is redundant? as in its on disc 1 and disc 2? here, i have dragon age origions for the 360 right here, and i have it on steam. game is 20gb on the pc, on the 360 it fits 1 disc, i dont know if that's before or after they opened the discs up a bit so its either a 6 or 8gb game there. if they were a bit smarter about how the textures were compressed, it could have been a great looking game on the system. i'm willing to bet money most ps3 games or pc could compress to under 10gb easily if you were smart about textures.[/citation]
I understand the movies part, but in some cases there are really stunning videos added that can't be rendered real-time that make it worth it. As for compression, the more you need to compress, the more work the cpu has to do to decompress the files before they can be used, which is already straining itself to play the game. Which is why more often than not, files are compressed on the disc which is why you have to install on the PC and not the consoles, aside from a few console games that are compressed anyway as they have to install to HDD to kill load times.
I understand the movies part, but in some cases there are really stunning videos added that can't be rendered real-time that make it worth it. As for compression, the more you need to compress, the more work the cpu has to do to decompress the files before they can be used, which is already straining itself to play the game. Which is why more often than not, files are compressed on the disc which is why you have to install on the PC and not the consoles, aside from a few console games that are compressed anyway as they have to install to HDD to kill load times.
joytech22
Distinguished
- Jun 4, 2008
- 651
- 0
- 18,930
[citation][nom]walter87[/nom]Your lucky, In Canada Rogers and Bell are awful. $50/month for 60GB with 18Mbps down 512kpbs up.(They literally are the only providers in my area and its robbery!)[/citation]
Oh yeah? Try 20GB a month @ 150kb/s for $129 LOL..
I think I've been the most ripped off customer ever.
Glad I changed to unlimited speed (varies between line quality and distance etc) and data for $29 a month mwahahaw..
Oh yeah? Try 20GB a month @ 150kb/s for $129 LOL..
I think I've been the most ripped off customer ever.
Glad I changed to unlimited speed (varies between line quality and distance etc) and data for $29 a month mwahahaw..
[citation][nom]technogiant[/nom]Just how is your Own media better than cloud storage, have you never lost your activation code, broken a disc, reinstalled it too many times and fallen foul of securom, been burgled and lost your disc's......seriously the cloud is far superior....people need to move on.....this console will last till 2019 forget the sentiment for punch hole ticker tape.[/citation]
Until their servers go down, or your net goes down, of they get hacked and lose your info and your games, or have hardware malfunction and lose your data, or until you hit your monthly data cap and CAN'T play anymore alone or online. I'd rather have the disc myself and have no one but myself to blame for losing or breaking it then trust someone else to keep the information for me and risk them losing it cause of a stupid move.
Until their servers go down, or your net goes down, of they get hacked and lose your info and your games, or have hardware malfunction and lose your data, or until you hit your monthly data cap and CAN'T play anymore alone or online. I'd rather have the disc myself and have no one but myself to blame for losing or breaking it then trust someone else to keep the information for me and risk them losing it cause of a stupid move.
- Status
TRENDING THREADS
-
-
Question Can Minecraft 1.20.51 Apk be installed with high graphics on Realme 5?
- Started by BertramBlythe
- Replies: 0
-
-
Question low-cost laptop recommendations for gaming?
- Started by gutta
- Replies: 1
-
Blacklisting phone with various variables- Started by Blindcracker
- Replies: 4
-
Question Buy a new Changingtouch lapdock recommendation- Started by Harold Robeson
- Replies: 1
-
Question NordPass issues with email masking?
- Started by Spotty352
- Replies: 0
Facebook
Twitter