Yellow w/ Exclamation mark very inaccurate - Delete to mak..

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

I have a 140 (160GB) Directv Tivo. I have about 50 hours of programs on
there (all keep until space needed) and, on average, my To Do list
shows it will record about 13 hours a day. Why area shows showing as
may be deleted to make room for new programs when I have at least 7
days before that would happen?????

It seems to me this is way off and it would have been much better to
tell you how many hours your have left rather than having arcane
icons/msgs that don't give you accurate info. My ReplayTV tells you
what time you have left and you can adjust accordingly. I guess Tivo is
made for the masses (aka dumb people) and they thought it would confuse
people.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

michaeljc70@hotmail.com wrote:
> I have a 140 (160GB) Directv Tivo. I have about 50 hours of programs on
> there (all keep until space needed) and, on average, my To Do list
> shows it will record about 13 hours a day. Why area shows showing as
> may be deleted to make room for new programs when I have at least 7
> days before that would happen?????
>
> It seems to me this is way off and it would have been much better to
> tell you how many hours your have left rather than having arcane
> icons/msgs that don't give you accurate info. My ReplayTV tells you
> what time you have left and you can adjust accordingly. I guess Tivo is
> made for the masses (aka dumb people) and they thought it would confuse
> people.

I believe that the exclamation remarks are to warn you that those
programs *could* be deleted if necessary to make room, not that they're
about to be deleted. IOW, their keep until settings have expired.

But, yes, Tivos first priority is ease-of-use. Avoidance of confusion
is a top priority..

Randy S.

 

[Howard]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

michaeljc70@hotmail.com wrote in news:1118712594.101857.72280
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

> I have a 140 (160GB) Directv Tivo. I have about 50 hours of programs on
> there (all keep until space needed) and, on average, my To Do list
> shows it will record about 13 hours a day. Why area shows showing as
> may be deleted to make room for new programs when I have at least 7
> days before that would happen?????

Because after 24 hours, the yellow icon appears. 24 hours after that, the
yellow with exclamation appears. Doesn't matter if you have another
million years of space or not.

> I guess Tivo is made for the masses (aka dumb people) and they thought
> it would confuse people.

You're confused by it, and the function is VERY clearly explained...what
does that make you?

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.

 

[seth]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

<michaeljc70@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1118712594.101857.72280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>I have a 140 (160GB) Directv Tivo. I have about 50 hours of programs on
> there (all keep until space needed) and, on average, my To Do list
> shows it will record about 13 hours a day. Why area shows showing as
> may be deleted to make room for new programs when I have at least 7
> days before that would happen?????
>
> It seems to me this is way off and it would have been much better to
> tell you how many hours your have left rather than having arcane
> icons/msgs that don't give you accurate info. My ReplayTV tells you
> what time you have left and you can adjust accordingly. I guess Tivo is
> made for the masses (aka dumb people) and they thought it would confuse
> people.

It's not saying they will be deleted, just that they are eligible. I've had
some shows in that state for months at a time.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

<michaeljc70@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:1118712594.101857.72280@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I have a 140 (160GB) Directv Tivo. I have about 50 hours of programs on
> there (all keep until space needed) and, on average, my To Do list
> shows it will record about 13 hours a day. Why area shows showing as
> may be deleted to make room for new programs when I have at least 7
> days before that would happen?????
>
> It seems to me this is way off and it would have been much better to
> tell you how many hours your have left rather than having arcane
> icons/msgs that don't give you accurate info. My ReplayTV tells you
> what time you have left and you can adjust accordingly. I guess Tivo is
> made for the masses (aka dumb people) and they thought it would confuse
> people.
>

Recordings eligible for deletion to make space available for new programs
automatically become eligible after two days.

The DirecTV DVR cannot predict how many recording hours are unused
or available for new recordings. The amount of space used/hour
varies among the saved programs. Every hour of recording won't necessarily
use the same number of bytes of recording space. A 3 hour letter boxed
movie with black areas at top and bottom of the screen will occupy less space
than a 3 hour non-letter boxed movie.

The amount of *available space* includes space used by programs eligible
for deletion plus the amount of unused space. The "accurate info" you desire
isn't available and there is nothing to "adjust" if that information were available.

I use 2 "up to 35 hours" DirecTV DVRs and don't care how much space is used
or available. With 140 GB available you shouldn't care about used space either.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

If they can predict enough to advertise that the DVR holds 70 hours,
they can predict enough to give the user an estimate. They could also
just give a % free of the total hard disk space. Having to go through
and add up how much I have used or prematurely delete things is silly
with today's technology. A simple indicator (icon next to now playing
or something) that indicates when the drive is 90% full would even
suffice.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>If they can predict enough to advertise that the DVR holds 70 hours,
>they can predict enough to give the user an estimate. They could also

They can't predict the actions of the user. It is likely, for
example, that the earliest show marked with a yellow exclamation
point on my TiVo will be deleted the next time I leave for 3 days
(and therefore don't watch and delete any shows). However, it's
been around for 4 months, and it will likely stay around a few more.

>just give a % free of the total hard disk space. Having to go through
>and add up how much I have used or prematurely delete things is silly
>with today's technology. A simple indicator (icon next to now playing
>or something) that indicates when the drive is 90% full would even
>suffice.

I'd like to see several indicators:

1. The percentage of disk space occupied by KEEP UNTIL I DELETE shows.
2. The percentage of disk space occupied by KEEP UNTIL I DELETE
and recent recordings (excludes yellow exclamation points and suggestions
unless they are marked KUID)
3. The percentage of disk space occupied by non-suggestion recordings
(unless they are marked KUID).
4. The percentage of disk space occupied.

Of these, #3 is probably the most useful if I can have only one of
them. #4 is probably pretty useless (unless you turn suggestions
off, in which case it becomes #3), as TiVo will do its best to keep
it at or near 100%. #2 is my choice for the second indicator if
I can have one.

Gordon L. Burditt

 

[Jason]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 20:21:37 -0000, Gordon Burditt wrote:

>>If they can predict enough to advertise that the DVR holds 70 hours,
>>they can predict enough to give the user an estimate. They could also
>
>They can't predict the actions of the user. It is likely, for
>example, that the earliest show marked with a yellow exclamation
>point on my TiVo will be deleted the next time I leave for 3 days
>(and therefore don't watch and delete any shows). However, it's
>been around for 4 months, and it will likely stay around a few more.
>
>>just give a % free of the total hard disk space. Having to go through
>>and add up how much I have used or prematurely delete things is silly
>>with today's technology. A simple indicator (icon next to now playing
>>or something) that indicates when the drive is 90% full would even
>>suffice.
>
>I'd like to see several indicators:
>
>1. The percentage of disk space occupied by KEEP UNTIL I DELETE shows.
>2. The percentage of disk space occupied by KEEP UNTIL I DELETE
> and recent recordings (excludes yellow exclamation points and suggestions
> unless they are marked KUID)
>3. The percentage of disk space occupied by non-suggestion recordings
> (unless they are marked KUID).
>4. The percentage of disk space occupied.
>
>Of these, #3 is probably the most useful if I can have only one of
>them. #4 is probably pretty useless (unless you turn suggestions
>off, in which case it becomes #3), as TiVo will do its best to keep
>it at or near 100%. #2 is my choice for the second indicator if
>I can have one.
>
> Gordon L. Burditt


Why not a simple bar graph, in the form of a standard software
progress bar, based on actual space used.

KKKKKKKKKKYYYYYYYYYYBBBBBBBBBBWWWWWWWWWW
K = Keep until I delete, in green
Y = All the yellow icons, in yellow
B = Tivo suggestions, in black
W = Empty space, in white

with the measurement of empty space shown, with the standard "up
to X hours" conversion that's show in the system details

Based on space used, because as someone else pointed out
somewhere, everything else being equal, a movie recorded with
letterboxing (the black bars) will take up less space than the
same movie without letterboxing.

If someone is leaving for the weekend, then they check their
white space and maybe get rid of suggestions, or turn suggestions
off for the weekend, and not worry about losing something in the
yellow danger area.

 

[sinner]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

* Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

> If they can predict enough to advertise that the DVR holds 70
> hours, they can predict enough to give the user an estimate. They
> could also just give a % free of the total hard disk space.

Which does what for you?

Lets say it tells you that you have 10% free, what useful information
is obtained from that reference?

> Having to go through and add up how much I have used or
> prematurely delete things is silly with today's technology.

Even doing that, what does it buy you? Lets say it tells you, that by
your calculations that you have 3 hours left and you attempt to
record a football game that goes only 2 hours and 45 minuts BUT it
caused one of your yellow ! to get deleted, is that OK? Same result
even IF you had an automated counter telling what percent of space is
available.

> A
> simple indicator (icon next to now playing or something) that
> indicates when the drive is 90% full would even suffice.

Yeah, it would suffice in adding to the number of pissed off
customers that call support when it turned out that because of the
compression of a show you recorded, another show was deleted but they
thought based on that estimate it should have fit no problem, BUT the
compression caused estimate provided to be inaccurate and caused a
'really important' show to be deleted.


--
David

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> If someone is leaving for the weekend, then they check their
> white space and maybe get rid of suggestions, or turn suggestions
> off for the weekend, and not worry about losing something in the
> yellow danger area.

Well, I'd say that's unnecessary, Suggestions will never prevent
anything from being recorded or cause anything to be deleted, except for
other suggestions maybe.

Randy S.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

>>They can't predict the actions of the user. It is likely, for
>>example, that the earliest show marked with a yellow exclamation
>>point on my TiVo will be deleted the next time I leave for 3 days
>>(and therefore don't watch and delete any shows). However, it's
>>been around for 4 months, and it will likely stay around a few more.
>>
>>>just give a % free of the total hard disk space. Having to go through
>>>and add up how much I have used or prematurely delete things is silly
>>>with today's technology. A simple indicator (icon next to now playing
>>>or something) that indicates when the drive is 90% full would even
>>>suffice.
>>
>>I'd like to see several indicators:
>>
>>1. The percentage of disk space occupied by KEEP UNTIL I DELETE shows.
>>2. The percentage of disk space occupied by KEEP UNTIL I DELETE
>> and recent recordings (excludes yellow exclamation points and suggestions
>> unless they are marked KUID)
>>3. The percentage of disk space occupied by non-suggestion recordings
>> (unless they are marked KUID).
>>4. The percentage of disk space occupied.
>>
>>Of these, #3 is probably the most useful if I can have only one of
>>them. #4 is probably pretty useless (unless you turn suggestions
>>off, in which case it becomes #3), as TiVo will do its best to keep
>>it at or near 100%. #2 is my choice for the second indicator if
>>I can have one.
>>
>> Gordon L. Burditt
>
>
>Why not a simple bar graph, in the form of a standard software
>progress bar, based on actual space used.
>
>KKKKKKKKKKYYYYYYYYYYBBBBBBBBBBWWWWWWWWWW
>K = Keep until I delete, in green
Um, in here you have the recently recorded stuff, not old enough to
get a yellow ball yet, and not marked KUID.
>Y = All the yellow icons, in yellow
>B = Tivo suggestions, in black
>W = Empty space, in white

Not a bad idea.

>with the measurement of empty space shown, with the standard "up
>to X hours" conversion that's show in the system details

On a standalone TiVo, there's the different quality levels to worry
about (and Basic probably isn't your default.) Each season pass
can have its own quality level. Perhaps it should use the current
overall default quality setting for the bar graph.

>Based on space used, because as someone else pointed out
>somewhere, everything else being equal, a movie recorded with
>letterboxing (the black bars) will take up less space than the
>same movie without letterboxing.
>
>If someone is leaving for the weekend, then they check their
>white space and maybe get rid of suggestions, or turn suggestions
>off for the weekend, and not worry about losing something in the
>yellow danger area.

Getting rid of suggestions, or turning off suggestions for the
weekend will do *NOTHING* to prevent losing the yellow stuff. The
suggestions will all be deleted before that happens anyway. If you
want to save something you're in danger of losing, you need to
delete or reclassify something in the K, blank, or Y groups, or do
something about reducing future non-suggestion recordings.

Gordon L. Burditt

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Gordon Burditt (gordonb.vx9tu@burditt.org) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> >Why not a simple bar graph, in the form of a standard software
> >progress bar, based on actual space used.
> >
> >KKKKKKKKKKYYYYYYYYYYBBBBBBBBBBWWWWWWWWWW
> >K = Keep until I delete, in green
>
> Um, in here you have the recently recorded stuff, not old enough to
> get a yellow ball yet, and not marked KUID.
>
> >Y = All the yellow icons, in yellow
> >B = Tivo suggestions, in black
> >W = Empty space, in white
>
> Not a bad idea.

With one modification...remember that until a recording has a yellow
exclamation point, it's not available for auto delete. So, "no icon"
and "yellow ball" recordings are identical as far as TiVo is concerned,
and they should be displayed as such, so something like this would do:

| |
KKKKKKKKKKNNNNNNNNN|YYYYYYYYYY|BBBBBBBBBBWWWWWWWWWW
| |

K = Keep until I delete, in green
N = "no icon" and "yellow ball" recordings...maybe a lighter green?
Y = "yellow exclamation point" recordings, in yellow
B = Tivo suggestions, in black
W = Empty space, in white

The first bar is the marker for true "used space", since anything to the
left cannot be deleted automatically, and anything to the right can.
The second bar is the marker for true "free space". If the amount to
the right of it is enough for future recordings, then no user-requested
recording will be deleted.

Of course, this is only an instantaneous status...a "yellow ball" can
turn into a "yellow exclamation point" tomorrow and then be deleted.

--
Jeff Rife | "Hey, Brain, what do you wanna do tonight?"
|
| "The same thing we do every night, Pinky...
| try to take over the world."

 

[Jason]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 22:43:37 -0400, Jeff Rife wrote:
>
>With one modification...remember that until a recording has a yellow
>exclamation point, it's not available for auto delete. So, "no icon"
>and "yellow ball" recordings are identical as far as TiVo is concerned,
>and they should be displayed as such, so something like this would do:
>
> | |
>KKKKKKKKKKNNNNNNNNN|YYYYYYYYYY|BBBBBBBBBBWWWWWWWWWW
> | |
>
>K = Keep until I delete, in green
>N = "no icon" and "yellow ball" recordings...maybe a lighter green?
>Y = "yellow exclamation point" recordings, in yellow
>B = Tivo suggestions, in black
>W = Empty space, in white
>
>The first bar is the marker for true "used space", since anything to the
>left cannot be deleted automatically, and anything to the right can.
>The second bar is the marker for true "free space". If the amount to
>the right of it is enough for future recordings, then no user-requested
>recording will be deleted.
>
>Of course, this is only an instantaneous status...a "yellow ball" can
>turn into a "yellow exclamation point" tomorrow and then be deleted.

Don't know what exactly I was thinking with the 'turn suggestions
off' thing...

But the 'no icon' should be in with the yellows, because it can
turn into a yellow ball tomorrow, and perhaps tomorrow is day 1
of a 4 day holiday weekend. The 4th of july is a monday this
year, and less than 2 weeks away...

Gordon said:
>On a standalone TiVo, there's the different quality levels to worry
>about (and Basic probably isn't your default.) Each season pass
>can have its own quality level. Perhaps it should use the current
>overall default quality setting for the bar graph.

Good point. white space measurement is listed in gigs directly
under the bar, lower on the screen can be a translation of 'up to
x hours' at the various qualities. If it's not enough, delete
some suggs yourself until you get the number you're happy with.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In general, I think you are over-emphasing the compression ratio. Yes,
it maybe it varies, but most shows are going to have a very similar
ratio. It is extremely unlikely for one show to be compressed at say
22% and another is be 75%.

I think a yellow exclamation point is more confusing when your programs
may never be deleted or are weeks away from being deleted. Lets face
it- anything not marked KUID CAN be deleted. This exclamation thing is
useless as far as I am concerned.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

(Jason) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> But the 'no icon' should be in with the yellows, because it can
> turn into a yellow ball tomorrow,

Yes, it could, but TiVo still can't delete it.

> and perhaps tomorrow is day 1
> of a 4 day holiday weekend. The 4th of july is a monday this
> year, and less than 2 weeks away...

On the other hand, if you have extended the expiration date, it *won't*
be available for delete during those 4 days. Other than the detailed info
screen, there is no way to tell when a "no icon" recording will turn into
a "yellow ball". A "yellow ball" means one more day and the recording will
be available for deletion.

So, grouping all "no icons" with "yellow balls" makes sense, because both
are not available for deletion, even though some can be very far away from
possible deletion.

--
Jeff Rife | "What are you looking at? You're laborers; you
| should be laboring. That's what you get for
| not having an education."
| -- Professor Hathaway, "Real Genius"

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Jeff Rife wrote:
> (Jason) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>
>>But the 'no icon' should be in with the yellows, because it can
>>turn into a yellow ball tomorrow,

> So, grouping all "no icons" with "yellow balls" makes sense, because both
> are not available for deletion, even though some can be very far away from
> possible deletion.
>

I think that's what Jason was saying, though his because was misleading.

You ever wonder whether anyone from Tivo watches this group for ideas?
Some of them often seem sensible ;-). I get the feeling it would be
more likely they'd watch tivocommunity.com though.

Randy S.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

I think that a % indicator would work. Everyone has a fuel gauge
indicator on their car. It doesn't tell you you can go exactly 32.5
miles, but it is still useful. Your argument is that your mileage will
vary whether you are on the highway or local so let's just rip out the
fuel gauge altogether. All I really am interested in is a ballpark
that tells me I am running low on space and stuff will be deleted.
Just liek I don't care if my car has a full, 3/4 or 1/2 tank of gas. I
am concerned when I have less than 1/4. I don't need to know that I
can fit 178 minutes of recording if it is at X and X compression.



SINNER wrote:
> * Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>
> > In general, I think you are over-emphasing the compression ratio.
> > Yes, it maybe it varies, but most shows are going to have a very
> > similar ratio. It is extremely unlikely for one show to be
> > compressed at say 22% and another is be 75%.
> >
> > I think a yellow exclamation point is more confusing when your
> > programs may never be deleted or are weeks away from being
> > deleted. Lets face it- anything not marked KUID CAN be deleted.
> > This exclamation thing is useless as far as I am concerned.
> >
>
> Even a 5% difference is enough to cause a problem. If you are
> downloading a file to your PC and you have 100 megs left and the file
> is 99 megs, you know it will fit. Not so in the Tivo world so
> regardless of how wide the difference is, it is variable enough so
> that if you depend on it, which the consumer will inevitably do, they
> will be invariably disappointed and unjustly blame Tivo. IMNSHO, it
> is better to do with out especially from the POV of Tivo Customer
> Service as the feature would likely piss off more people than it
> would help.
>
> --
> David

 

[sinner]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

* Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

> In general, I think you are over-emphasing the compression ratio.
> Yes, it maybe it varies, but most shows are going to have a very
> similar ratio. It is extremely unlikely for one show to be
> compressed at say 22% and another is be 75%.
>
> I think a yellow exclamation point is more confusing when your
> programs may never be deleted or are weeks away from being
> deleted. Lets face it- anything not marked KUID CAN be deleted.
> This exclamation thing is useless as far as I am concerned.
>

Even a 5% difference is enough to cause a problem. If you are
downloading a file to your PC and you have 100 megs left and the file
is 99 megs, you know it will fit. Not so in the Tivo world so
regardless of how wide the difference is, it is variable enough so
that if you depend on it, which the consumer will inevitably do, they
will be invariably disappointed and unjustly blame Tivo. IMNSHO, it
is better to do with out especially from the POV of Tivo Customer
Service as the feature would likely piss off more people than it
would help.

--
David

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message news:MPG.1d2217eae3c4a1e6989df4@news.nabs.net...
> (Jason) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> > But the 'no icon' should be in with the yellows, because it can
> > turn into a yellow ball tomorrow,
>
> Yes, it could, but TiVo still can't delete it.
>
....

Doesn't Keep at Most 1 episode SP for daily recordings cause a program
to immediately have a Yellow icon for the daily recording?

My Keep at Most 1 episode recordings disappear when the next recording
under that SP starts. Those daily recordings seldom if ever have an exclamation
point icon in Now Playing.

I doubt there will ever be available space v. used space information added
because there is great misunderstanding now about retention criteria.

Creating a half dozen categories of usage retention will add confusion for most users.
Few people understand the consequence of changing the Keep until Date on a program
recorded under a Season Pass with respect to the Keep at Most setting.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <1119404941.075825.284540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
michaeljc70@hotmail.com wrote:

> I think that a % indicator would work. Everyone has a fuel gauge
> indicator on their car. It doesn't tell you you can go exactly 32.5
> miles, but it is still useful. Your argument is that your mileage will
> vary whether you are on the highway or local so let's just rip out the
> fuel gauge altogether. All I really am interested in is a ballpark
> that tells me I am running low on space and stuff will be deleted.
> Just liek I don't care if my car has a full, 3/4 or 1/2 tank of gas. I
> am concerned when I have less than 1/4. I don't need to know that I
> can fit 178 minutes of recording if it is at X and X compression.

jeez, you go to now playing, and spend 30 seconds adding it up.