Best Buy Service Plan for Samsung DLP HDTV - Advice needed

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:55:13 -0800, "Ed T"
<ed.wilson@acsalaskanospam.net> wrote:

>
>"HDTV-slingr" <NOSPAMMERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:bvuon0pit2uj6qhevddc13h8bbdr34up7k@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:39:40 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Wow, I din't know this at all.
>>>> Well, then why would people buy from anyone else?
>>>> I was on their website the other day, and i saw that they offer
>>>> price-matching + 10% of the difference.
>>>>
>>>> I think my next TV is going to be coming from Sears...
>>>> How an you beat that?
>>>
>>>Don't assume that Sears techs are any good, nor that they are very much
>>>trained. Some may be but the vast majority are likely techs that can't
>>>cut
>>>it elsewhere. We go behind them all the time and fix things that they
>>>couldn't, wouldn't, or botched.
>>>
>> Maybe it's just in-store propaganda (every company has that) but they
>> tell us the customer satisfaction ratings for our techs is 97% out of
>> a possible 100%. Sears service also has an 86% "problem fixed on
>> first visit" record currently. Not perfect but respectable enough to
>> have Consumer Reports rate their service at #1.
>>
>> Yesterday, one of our local techs was telling me that since we sell so
>> many different brands and models (almost 300 on display in my store -
>> one of our superstores), he often goes on a service call to work on a
>> TV he's never even seen the guts of. He explained to me that they are
>> directly "online" with the individual manufacturers' engineers in the
>> repair vans who instantly send the schematics to them for these
>> instances. They are talking on the phone with the manufacturer's
>> engineers as they are looking directly at the schematics for that
>> particular television. I found that to be quite an interesting
>> concept... but it works quite well!
>>
>> Sure, mom & pop techs tend to be the best in the biz. It would stand
>> to reason that the best of the best would wish to go into biz for
>> themselves and make the BIG BUCKS instead of working for the largest
>> service and repair agency in the country. If one wants _the_ best
>> service, one should buy from their local "mom & pop". In our area,
>> you pay a lot more for the item and for the labor from a "mom & pop"
>> because they simply do not have the margins the Best Buys, the Circuit
>> Citys, or the Sears' have.
>>
>> On the other hand, if you want to get a great price on your product,
>> buy from a big box and take advantage of their price-matching
>> policies. If you want to get a great price on your product AND get
>> some very decent and capable service from the same place, buy from
>> Sears or find a "mom & pop" who's willing to sell at little or no
>> profit on the front-end in hopes of winning your back-end buck. I'm
>> sure they're out there if you can wheel and deal and if you can find
>> an open-minded "mom & pop" in your area. Like I said, these don't
>> exist in my own metro area.
>>
>Purchasing a service contract from a company who admits their technicians
>aren't trained on many of the items they sell (because there's just too many
>differnt models to choose from) doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence.
>That might work for a treadmill or a dishwasher but not something like a
>HDTV,

Ed, they're in a joint-venture with the original manufacturer. If
they can't fix the problem, they replace the set. The manufacturer's
engineers train the Sears techs and they stay in direct contact with
them. In the vast majority of the calls, the set is fixed on the
first visit. In the remaining cases, the set is replaced, or if parts
need to be ordered, a rental tv of equal comparison is paid for while
waiting for the parts. What more do you want?


>I looked into Sears earlier this year and when I asked them if part of the
>set up and warranty was a professional calibration they said no it wasn't.
>In fact all they would guarantee is that a broken set would be restored to
>factory specs and settings. They don't even offer calibrations

Sears apparently does offers calibrations. It costs $179.99 above and
beyond the standard set up and delivery fee. See your salesman for
more information.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"HDTV-slingr" <NOSPAMMERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bvuon0pit2uj6qhevddc13h8bbdr34up7k@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 20:39:40 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> Wow, I din't know this at all.
> >> Well, then why would people buy from anyone else?
> >> I was on their website the other day, and i saw that they offer
> >> price-matching + 10% of the difference.
> >>
> >> I think my next TV is going to be coming from Sears...
> >> How an you beat that?
> >
> >Don't assume that Sears techs are any good, nor that they are very much
> >trained. Some may be but the vast majority are likely techs that can't
cut
> >it elsewhere. We go behind them all the time and fix things that they
> >couldn't, wouldn't, or botched.
> >
> Maybe it's just in-store propaganda (every company has that) but they
> tell us the customer satisfaction ratings for our techs is 97% out of
> a possible 100%. Sears service also has an 86% "problem fixed on
> first visit" record currently. Not perfect but respectable enough to
> have Consumer Reports rate their service at #1.
>
> Yesterday, one of our local techs was telling me that since we sell so
> many different brands and models (almost 300 on display in my store -
> one of our superstores), he often goes on a service call to work on a
> TV he's never even seen the guts of. He explained to me that they are
> directly "online" with the individual manufacturers' engineers in the
> repair vans who instantly send the schematics to them for these
> instances. They are talking on the phone with the manufacturer's
> engineers as they are looking directly at the schematics for that
> particular television. I found that to be quite an interesting
> concept... but it works quite well!
>
> Sure, mom & pop techs tend to be the best in the biz. It would stand
> to reason that the best of the best would wish to go into biz for
> themselves and make the BIG BUCKS instead of working for the largest
> service and repair agency in the country. If one wants _the_ best
> service, one should buy from their local "mom & pop". In our area,
> you pay a lot more for the item and for the labor from a "mom & pop"
> because they simply do not have the margins the Best Buys, the Circuit
> Citys, or the Sears' have.
>
> On the other hand, if you want to get a great price on your product,
> buy from a big box and take advantage of their price-matching
> policies. If you want to get a great price on your product AND get
> some very decent and capable service from the same place, buy from
> Sears or find a "mom & pop" who's willing to sell at little or no
> profit on the front-end in hopes of winning your back-end buck. I'm
> sure they're out there if you can wheel and deal and if you can find
> an open-minded "mom & pop" in your area. Like I said, these don't
> exist in my own metro area.

I'd be willing to bet that the best techs in your area are not at Sears.
Look for the local independent servicers who are factory authorized for a
given brand or who service a lot of that brand. Sears techs have no access
to tech reps and documentation that other ASCs don't have. It might sound
impressive to be able to access schematics online while on the job, but it
is only a matter of being authorized to do so and having a computer.

When it comes to price, Sears service in our area is no bargain. They are
mostly board swappers even on things that can be fixed much much less
expensively with a little troubleshooting. As for percentage of fixes on
the first trip, I'll bet that includes declined estimates that other shops
go behind and fix for half the cost, after Sears has charged $96 for a
service call to guess at which board needs to be changed. I just did
another of these last week.

Leonard

 

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Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"HDTV-slingr" <NOSPAMMERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tdfpn0p3dagjf3hdfb1tv7j0bsg1stuul2@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:55:13 -0800, "Ed T"
> Ed, they're in a joint-venture with the original manufacturer. If
> they can't fix the problem, they replace the set. The manufacturer's
> engineers train the Sears techs and they stay in direct contact with
> them. In the vast majority of the calls, the set is fixed on the
> first visit. In the remaining cases, the set is replaced, or if parts
> need to be ordered, a rental tv of equal comparison is paid for while
> waiting for the parts. What more do you want?

You keep touting Sears' techs being factory trained. What does this mean?
"Factory Trained" can mean lots of things. I was at the only factory
training offered recently for a major manufacturer sold by Sears and there
were exactly zero Sears techs there. Sony offers classes on line that we do
every couple of months and I rarely see a Sears tech on the list of
attendees. From what I have heard from former Sears techs, their "factory
training" is mostly hype. Why don't you check it out.

Leonard

 

[Julie]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Leonard Caillouet wrote:
>
> "HDTV-slingr" <NOSPAMMERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:tdfpn0p3dagjf3hdfb1tv7j0bsg1stuul2@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:55:13 -0800, "Ed T"
> > Ed, they're in a joint-venture with the original manufacturer. If
> > they can't fix the problem, they replace the set. The manufacturer's
> > engineers train the Sears techs and they stay in direct contact with
> > them. In the vast majority of the calls, the set is fixed on the
> > first visit. In the remaining cases, the set is replaced, or if parts
> > need to be ordered, a rental tv of equal comparison is paid for while
> > waiting for the parts. What more do you want?
>
> You keep touting Sears' techs being factory trained. What does this mean?
> "Factory Trained" can mean lots of things. I was at the only factory
> training offered recently for a major manufacturer sold by Sears and there
> were exactly zero Sears techs there. Sony offers classes on line that we do
> every couple of months and I rarely see a Sears tech on the list of
> attendees. From what I have heard from former Sears techs, their "factory
> training" is mostly hype. Why don't you check it out.
>
> Leonard

I've checked it out, and they get Sears-specific classes from the factory.

What do you recommend instead of Sears?

At least Sears will backup up their warranty -- if they can't fix it, or if
there are more than 3 failures of the same part, they replace the set w/ a new
(equivalent) set. I speak from experience, they couldn't fix an intermittent
screen blank problem on a top of the line Hitachi RPT that developed near the
end of my 3 year contract, so the told me to go an pick out something new at
the store based on my original $4000 purchase price. Got a brand-new Hitachi
60" LCD projection set, couldn't be happier. Not many service contracts are
willing to do a $4000 replacement that I'm aware of...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 06:20:02 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com>
wrote:

>> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:55:13 -0800, "Ed T"
>> Ed, they're in a joint-venture with the original manufacturer. If
>> they can't fix the problem, they replace the set. The manufacturer's
>> engineers train the Sears techs and they stay in direct contact with
>> them. In the vast majority of the calls, the set is fixed on the
>> first visit. In the remaining cases, the set is replaced, or if parts
>> need to be ordered, a rental tv of equal comparison is paid for while
>> waiting for the parts. What more do you want?
>
>You keep touting Sears' techs being factory trained. What does this mean?
>"Factory Trained" can mean lots of things.

Leonard, I'm not arguing with you. Call 1-800-4-my-home and demand to
speak to a tech if you want to know the answer to that. All I do is
sell the tv's and somebody else twists the screwdriver on them. They
may or may not be the world's best techs but we're the only big box
that has them and they seem to impress most everybody who isn't a
competing "mom & pop" tech in my own personal experience.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

The only thing I would buy from Sears is craftsmen tools.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"HDTV-slingr" <NOSPAMMERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:lkaqn01jo7hdr3q1nv2d6323bq4nfpdsjv@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 06:20:02 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:55:13 -0800, "Ed T"
> >> Ed, they're in a joint-venture with the original manufacturer. If
> >> they can't fix the problem, they replace the set. The manufacturer's
> >> engineers train the Sears techs and they stay in direct contact with
> >> them. In the vast majority of the calls, the set is fixed on the
> >> first visit. In the remaining cases, the set is replaced, or if parts
> >> need to be ordered, a rental tv of equal comparison is paid for while
> >> waiting for the parts. What more do you want?
> >
> >You keep touting Sears' techs being factory trained. What does this
mean?
> >"Factory Trained" can mean lots of things.
>
> Leonard, I'm not arguing with you. Call 1-800-4-my-home and demand to
> speak to a tech if you want to know the answer to that. All I do is
> sell the tv's and somebody else twists the screwdriver on them. They
> may or may not be the world's best techs but we're the only big box
> that has them and they seem to impress most everybody who isn't a
> competing "mom & pop" tech in my own personal experience.

I don't mean to argue, but when you repeat the hype like "factory trained"
it leaves an impression that IME is unjustified.

BTW, at the last training that I went to where there were no Sears techs,
there were a bunch that work for Best Buy.

Leonard

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:10:56 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet"
<nospam@noway.com> wrote:

>I don't mean to argue, but when you repeat the hype like "factory trained"
>it leaves an impression that IME is unjustified.

Sorry, Leonard, I'm not a tech so I'm not aware of the sematics of the
techhie terms so if I'm abusing any of those, please just correct it
and give me a pass.

In your other post, you said the Sears techs are most likely to just
swap out a board and go on their way. As a consumer, I'm trying to
understand why that is a bad thing. I bought my Sony from Sears and
it's still under warranty. If the thing fails, I call Sears service,
a service tech comes out, takes the back off the TV, swaps out a board
in 10 minutes, puts it back together and it works.... then I'm a happy
camper! Why would I have a problem with that?

If rebuilding a diode takes 3 hours and swapping out a board takes 10
minutes, again, as a consumer, I'm just fine with that and in fact
would be happier with the latter.
>
>BTW, at the last training that I went to where there were no Sears techs,
>there were a bunch that work for Best Buy.
>
Best Buy doesn't have any service techs on the payroll, they are
outside contractors. Again, Sears is the only big box retailer with
employees on the payroll who perform the warranty work.

To Best Buy's credit, have you seen their addition of the "Geek
Squad"? I don't know if they are employees or contractors but they
will be going on calls to customers' homes to hook up DVD players,
computers, etc. (not actually performing technical repairs or anything
like that), for a fee.

What a great idea, if it's reasonably priced. I know Sears charges a
regular service call fee to go do stuff like that, which would cost an
arm and a leg.

I have a feeling BB's "Geek Squad" will help boost their sales (which
they hardly need... lol). I love the name!

 

[Guest]

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"Julie" <julie@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:417D0FD6.B57D1D50@nospam.com...

> I've checked it out, and they get Sears-specific classes from the factory.

On what products? How often? What percentage of their techs get them?

>
> What do you recommend instead of Sears?

I recommend that you ask some tough questions of Sears or any servicer. You
should check out all of the options and you will likely find that the best
tech for your set is not at Sears. If you do, and the prices are
reasonable, then you should use Sears. In most markets you will find better
techs fixing sets more effectively at lower prices at independent servicers
and independent dealers who service what they sell. You have to shop for
service just like you shop to buy the product.

> At least Sears will backup up their warranty -- if they can't fix it, or
if
> there are more than 3 failures of the same part, they replace the set w/ a
new
> (equivalent) set. I speak from experience, they couldn't fix an
intermittent
> screen blank problem on a top of the line Hitachi RPT that developed near
the
> end of my 3 year contract, so the told me to go an pick out something new
at
> the store based on my original $4000 purchase price. Got a brand-new
Hitachi
> 60" LCD projection set, couldn't be happier. Not many service contracts
are
> willing to do a $4000 replacement that I'm aware of...

Virtually any reputable dealer can sell you a service contract that will do
the same. You have to shop and ask the tough questions, but you can usually
do better than the service contract at Sears. Like everyone else, margins
at Sears are much higher on service contracts than on the product.
Negotiate and read the fine print.

Chances are pretty good that Hitachi would have done the same if the set
could not be fixed. There was a customer that we serviced a while back that
had a set nearly three years old that had a problem that could not be fixed
and we arranged for them to exchange it for a new model for the customer.
The set was purchased at Circuit City and there was no extended warranty.
Over the years I have administered hundreds of thousands of dollars of
repairs on products out of the warranty period that manufacturers have
covered, including replacing entire sets as old as 5 years. I have also
seen extended warranty companies do the same thing. Most of the better
policies have a "lemon" clause.

Sears may have the best deal. They might have the best option for service
in some cases. To assume so without exploring the options is just what they
want you to do. It is also foolish.

Leonard

 

[Julie]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Leonard Caillouet wrote:
>
> "Julie" <julie@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:417D0FD6.B57D1D50@nospam.com...
>
> > I've checked it out, and they get Sears-specific classes from the factory.
>
> On what products? How often? What percentage of their techs get them?
>
> >
> > What do you recommend instead of Sears?
>
> I recommend that you ask some tough questions of Sears or any servicer. You
> should check out all of the options and you will likely find that the best
> tech for your set is not at Sears. If you do, and the prices are
> reasonable, then you should use Sears. In most markets you will find better
> techs fixing sets more effectively at lower prices at independent servicers
> and independent dealers who service what they sell. You have to shop for
> service just like you shop to buy the product.
>
> > At least Sears will backup up their warranty -- if they can't fix it, or
> if
> > there are more than 3 failures of the same part, they replace the set w/ a
> new
> > (equivalent) set. I speak from experience, they couldn't fix an
> intermittent
> > screen blank problem on a top of the line Hitachi RPT that developed near
> the
> > end of my 3 year contract, so the told me to go an pick out something new
> at
> > the store based on my original $4000 purchase price. Got a brand-new
> Hitachi
> > 60" LCD projection set, couldn't be happier. Not many service contracts
> are
> > willing to do a $4000 replacement that I'm aware of...
>
> Virtually any reputable dealer can sell you a service contract that will do
> the same. You have to shop and ask the tough questions, but you can usually
> do better than the service contract at Sears. Like everyone else, margins
> at Sears are much higher on service contracts than on the product.
> Negotiate and read the fine print.
>
> Chances are pretty good that Hitachi would have done the same if the set
> could not be fixed. There was a customer that we serviced a while back that
> had a set nearly three years old that had a problem that could not be fixed
> and we arranged for them to exchange it for a new model for the customer.
> The set was purchased at Circuit City and there was no extended warranty.
> Over the years I have administered hundreds of thousands of dollars of
> repairs on products out of the warranty period that manufacturers have
> covered, including replacing entire sets as old as 5 years. I have also
> seen extended warranty companies do the same thing. Most of the better
> policies have a "lemon" clause.
>
> Sears may have the best deal. They might have the best option for service
> in some cases. To assume so without exploring the options is just what they
> want you to do. It is also foolish.
>
> Leonard

My 3 year service contract on a $4000 set w/ Sears was $199. It is a waste of
my time and money to do any more research at that price. At the end of the 3
years, the set, out of warranty, moves up to the bedroom and I head back to the
store for the latest and greatest.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:25:58 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com>
wrote:

>> In your other post, you said the Sears techs are most likely to just
>> swap out a board and go on their way. As a consumer, I'm trying to
>> understand why that is a bad thing. I bought my Sony from Sears and
>> it's still under warranty. If the thing fails, I call Sears service,
>> a service tech comes out, takes the back off the TV, swaps out a board
>> in 10 minutes, puts it back together and it works.... then I'm a happy
>> camper! Why would I have a problem with that?
>
>For warranty repairs it is not a problem, unless the board happens to have
>an EEPROM on it and the entire set needs to be realigned. Few techs will
>ever get it right. For out of warranty repairs, board swapping is very
>expensive in many cases. It is unlikely that for out of warranty repairs
>that they will carry all the boards to repair even most sets. Also, board
>swappers rarely develop the troubleshooting skills to really solve problems.
>
Ahhh, I see what you mean. Yeah, as far as out of warranty repairs
go, I cannot recommend Sears nor can I say anything negative as it is
not anything I have any experience with. While the service
departments do get called quite a bit to do repairs on all sorts of
things, whether purchased from Sears or not, I've no personal
experience with them.

Yeah, I was only touting the service department as part of a good
selling point for the retailer as a whole.... the fact that Sears
performs any and all warranty work on the TV's and appliances it sells
sets it apart from all other major retailers.

>> Best Buy doesn't have any service techs on the payroll, they are
>> outside contractors. Again, Sears is the only big box retailer with
>> employees on the payroll who perform the warranty work.
>
>Not true in all areas. In south Florida they do. I have met a number of
>them over the past couple of years. Overall, I'd generally buy from Sears,
>but the point is that you can't generalize as much as you do and be sure
>that you are getting the best service nor price. It is best to shop for
>both.
>
Leonard, now you've got me curious and a bit confused because it has
long been touted by Sears that all other major retailers have
independent contractors and/or they refer the customer to the
manufacter for all warranty work.

Are you absolutely certain those guys in those areas are not
independent contractors? Because one of our former employees who was
fired (but still a friend of mine that I stay in touch with) has
confirmed to me that BB uses local, independent contractors
nationwide.

It is possible that in some areas where large, high volume BB stores
exist, a small, independent contracting company is doing the BB
warranty work through an exclusive arrangement, thereby giving the
*appearance* of being BB themselves. However; technically speaking,
it is indeed a totally independent company with absolutely no alliance
with BB other than to fix their TV's in that particular territory.

Sears does this too but in deliveries (not service) and it creates a
lot of fires we salespeople have to put out constantly. For example,
Sears will not personally deliver to certain locations within our
metro area. In these instances, we use a local delivery firm that
exclusively does these "special" deliveries, "swap outs", etc. Some
of these people are rude with the customers or are just plain ignorant
with them.

The customers are constantly complaining to we and our management
about "instances" they have had with this company and we've lost quite
a few sales due to them. In one instance, a customer receiving a
Grand Vega 60" was told "Hitachi is better than Sony" and I ended up
losing a huge sale because I could not convince the customer this guy
didn't even work for Sears and didn't know his ass from a hole in the
ground.

This is just ONE example - it happens all too often and our store has
been trying to replace this company for some time. Problem is, we're
locked in w/them for another 2 years! I can see where the customers
are confused, too... the manager gave these clowns a ton of Sears
shirts. They are generally, unshaven and unkept looking and have the
IQ of a rock but people see the unmarked vans coming up their driveway
and these clowns jump out of the cabs wearing Sears shirts... of
COURSE the appearance is given that Sears is their direct employer.

I think you get my point. Sorry for being so long-winded. I've
enjoyed your informative responses

 

[Guest]

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"HDTV-slingr" <NOSPAMMERS@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:12krn01tkmiebke5k3uu0q0d5o9h8n3hov@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:25:58 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com>
> wrote:
>
> >> In your other post, you said the Sears techs are most likely to just
> >> swap out a board and go on their way. As a consumer, I'm trying to
> >> understand why that is a bad thing. I bought my Sony from Sears and
> >> it's still under warranty. If the thing fails, I call Sears service,
> >> a service tech comes out, takes the back off the TV, swaps out a board
> >> in 10 minutes, puts it back together and it works.... then I'm a happy
> >> camper! Why would I have a problem with that?
> >
> >For warranty repairs it is not a problem, unless the board happens to
have
> >an EEPROM on it and the entire set needs to be realigned. Few techs will
> >ever get it right. For out of warranty repairs, board swapping is very
> >expensive in many cases. It is unlikely that for out of warranty repairs
> >that they will carry all the boards to repair even most sets. Also,
board
> >swappers rarely develop the troubleshooting skills to really solve
problems.
> >
> Ahhh, I see what you mean. Yeah, as far as out of warranty repairs
> go, I cannot recommend Sears nor can I say anything negative as it is
> not anything I have any experience with. While the service
> departments do get called quite a bit to do repairs on all sorts of
> things, whether purchased from Sears or not, I've no personal
> experience with them.
>
> Yeah, I was only touting the service department as part of a good
> selling point for the retailer as a whole.... the fact that Sears
> performs any and all warranty work on the TV's and appliances it sells
> sets it apart from all other major retailers.
>
> >> Best Buy doesn't have any service techs on the payroll, they are
> >> outside contractors. Again, Sears is the only big box retailer with
> >> employees on the payroll who perform the warranty work.
> >
> >Not true in all areas. In south Florida they do. I have met a number of
> >them over the past couple of years. Overall, I'd generally buy from
Sears,
> >but the point is that you can't generalize as much as you do and be sure
> >that you are getting the best service nor price. It is best to shop for
> >both.
> >
> Leonard, now you've got me curious and a bit confused because it has
> long been touted by Sears that all other major retailers have
> independent contractors and/or they refer the customer to the
> manufacter for all warranty work.

Anytime ALL or EVERY are used in the retail or service industries you can
assume that the statement is wrong. Most of the time this is true.

> Are you absolutely certain those guys in those areas are not
> independent contractors? Because one of our former employees who was
> fired (but still a friend of mine that I stay in touch with) has
> confirmed to me that BB uses local, independent contractors
> nationwide.

Most of the time this is true. They apparently do have their own service
depots in some areas. They have a facility, trucks, and employees with
their logo on them and they claim to work for Best Buy. The operation may
be run for them by someone else, I am not sure about the specifics of their
business. I do know that they were recently shopping our market for techs,
and were reportedly expanding their service area here, but apparently they
had no success. Finding experienced techs is next to impossible these days.

> It is possible that in some areas where large, high volume BB stores
> exist, a small, independent contracting company is doing the BB
> warranty work through an exclusive arrangement, thereby giving the
> *appearance* of being BB themselves. However; technically speaking,
> it is indeed a totally independent company with absolutely no alliance
> with BB other than to fix their TV's in that particular territory.

Like I said above, I don't know the details of their business. The guys at
the manufacturer's training that I went to recently seem to think they work
for BB.

> Sears does this too but in deliveries (not service) and it creates a
> lot of fires we salespeople have to put out constantly. For example,
> Sears will not personally deliver to certain locations within our
> metro area. In these instances, we use a local delivery firm that
> exclusively does these "special" deliveries, "swap outs", etc. Some
> of these people are rude with the customers or are just plain ignorant
> with them.

Some Sears service techs are not much better. They seem to have trouble
with anything that is not on the troubleshooting chart or the symptom-repair
database. To be fair, this is pretty typical. My point is, as always,
don't be satisfied with the typical, shop for the exceptional. Otherwise,
the bar keeps getting set lower. Sears is perhaps better than the industry
in general, but that would not cut it for me if I were shopping for service,
nor will it cut it in my shop.

> The customers are constantly complaining to we and our management
> about "instances" they have had with this company and we've lost quite
> a few sales due to them. In one instance, a customer receiving a
> Grand Vega 60" was told "Hitachi is better than Sony" and I ended up
> losing a huge sale because I could not convince the customer this guy
> didn't even work for Sears and didn't know his ass from a hole in the
> ground.
>
> This is just ONE example - it happens all too often and our store has
> been trying to replace this company for some time. Problem is, we're
> locked in w/them for another 2 years! I can see where the customers
> are confused, too... the manager gave these clowns a ton of Sears
> shirts. They are generally, unshaven and unkept looking and have the
> IQ of a rock but people see the unmarked vans coming up their driveway
> and these clowns jump out of the cabs wearing Sears shirts... of
> COURSE the appearance is given that Sears is their direct employer.
>
> I think you get my point. Sorry for being so long-winded. I've
> enjoyed your informative responses

Very clearly. Don't get me wrong, I think Sears is generally much better
than BB or the competition. They do have their problems, however, like
every big organization. They are not an exception to my rule that
everything deserves to be shopped carefully for VALUE, not just for price.
That means you need to understand the whole story and assume nothing.

Leonard

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Julie" <julie@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:417DE26E.F1B38117@nospam.com...
> Leonard Caillouet wrote:
> > Sears may have the best deal. They might have the best option for
service
> > in some cases. To assume so without exploring the options is just what
they
> > want you to do. It is also foolish.
> >
> > Leonard
>
> My 3 year service contract on a $4000 set w/ Sears was $199. It is a
waste of
> my time and money to do any more research at that price. At the end of
the 3
> years, the set, out of warranty, moves up to the bedroom and I head back
to the
> store for the latest and greatest.

Sounds like a good deal. If you are happy with it, that is all that really
matters.

Leonard

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 06:43:16 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet" <no@no.com>
wrote:

>> I think you get my point. Sorry for being so long-winded. I've
>> enjoyed your informative responses
>
>Very clearly. Don't get me wrong, I think Sears is generally much better
>than BB or the competition. They do have their problems, however, like
>every big organization. They are not an exception to my rule that
>everything deserves to be shopped carefully for VALUE, not just for price.
>That means you need to understand the whole story and assume nothing.

I agree, Leonard. Some people are just dead set on getting the lowest
price out the door but they don't think about things that can happen
down the road. I'll say it again - in general, you can't beat the
service of a reputable, family-owned "mom & pop". It's not cheap but
it's within reasonable limits and the service is better than any big
box. They may not have the margins the big boxes have but there is
something to be said for being able to buy your TV directly from the
same person who will fix that TV if there are problems with it down
the road.

 

[Marty]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Somewhere around Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:33:53 -0500, while reading
alt.tv.tech.hdtv, I think I thought I saw this post from HDTV-slingr
<NOSPAMMERS@hotmail.com>:

>On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 13:10:56 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet"
><nospam@noway.com> wrote:
>
> . . .
>In your other post, you said the Sears techs are most likely to just
>swap out a board and go on their way. As a consumer, I'm trying to
>understand why that is a bad thing. I bought my Sony from Sears and
>it's still under warranty. If the thing fails, I call Sears service,
>a service tech comes out, takes the back off the TV, swaps out a board
>in 10 minutes, puts it back together and it works.... then I'm a happy
>camper! Why would I have a problem with that?
>
>If rebuilding a diode takes 3 hours and swapping out a board takes 10
>minutes, again, as a consumer, I'm just fine with that and in fact
>would be happier with the latter.

I used to repair stereos, back when they were much simpler. We did replace
components. But these days, I think it's better to replace boards in most
cases. Labor is expensive, parts not as much so as they used to be. When
you replace a part, you run the risk of causing problems with soldering,
replacing parts that are bad but maybe missing the part that caused them to
go bad, etc. If it's a warranty job, I would not be happy at all to see the
tech soldering parts onto the board.

--
Marty - mjf at leftcoast-usa.com
"Those are my principles, and if you don't like them...
well, I have others." - Groucho Marx

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Marty" <this.address@is.invalid> wrote in message
news:1442o09irijkrimllo16edpup9uf5jiqb5@4ax.com...

> I used to repair stereos, back when they were much simpler. We did
replace
> components. But these days, I think it's better to replace boards in most
> cases. Labor is expensive, parts not as much so as they used to be. When
> you replace a part, you run the risk of causing problems with soldering,
> replacing parts that are bad but maybe missing the part that caused them
to
> go bad, etc. If it's a warranty job, I would not be happy at all to see
the
> tech soldering parts onto the board.

For warranty repairs we don't want to do component level work on most units
because the labor rates are not realistic. Also, there may be dozens or
hundreds of alignment parameters lost if the board contains the memory.
Techs who do mostly board swapping are also the ones who likely are either
too lazy to restore the alignment completely or may simply be incapable of
doing so. I have seen many sets that got repaired under warranty and never
got set up correctly after the repair. On OOW repairs, some things make
sense to do at the board level and some at the component level. The
decision needs to be made based on the specific instance and the relative
cost of the board, parts, and labor that may be involved. If you make
blanket assumptions about the cost or efficacy of board swapping vs
component level repair you would be making a foolish mistake in many cases.

Virtually all stereo repair is still done at the component level. Most
stereo amplifiers and receivers have lots of discrete components, other than
the high density LSI areas such as DSP circuits. This makes component level
repair more practical. If you try to repair everything at the board level
you will be disposing of virtually everything except the most expensive
products. This IS becoming the case in many product categories. On the
most expensive products, swapping boards often increases the cost of repair
by hundreds of dollars. If it doesn't, and you don't lose important data,
then it makes sense to repair at the board level.

Don't assume.

Leonard

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On 29 Oct 2004 12:48:58 -0700, hoppie_2k3@yahoo.com (Lola) wrote:

>Well, I'm glad you got that off your chest...
>And I'm glad to know about all this stuff from Sears.
>I have been a loyal customer for a long time, and I am glad you are
>spreading the word. You've helped me decide where to get my next TV!

Thanks, Lola, I appreciate it. I really didn't come here to "spread
the word", I came here to lurk and learn but I've held most of this in
for a long time and it really does feel good to express my thoughts
finally, both positive and negative. Thanks for your patronage and
please spread the word

To the other regular posters in this NG, please forgive me if I've
come off like an infomercial for Sears. It wasn't my intent at
all.... it's not a bad place to shop and I'm happy I sell HDTV sets
for them overall.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> The only thing I would buy from Sears is craftsmen tools.

Since you are new to this thread, could you please give a little more
of an explaination to that?

If you had read the previous posts, you could see that Sears sells
some great stuff across the boards.

My advice would be to either go to the store, or check out the
website, and see what kind of deals and service they have.
Just this weekend, that had a ton of sales, including this awesome
Samsung HDTV:
http/www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?vertical=ELEC&pid=05754014000&adCell=P3&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes

And free shipping too!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

>But Sears today provides their own service for the TV's they sell and
>warranty and have an excellent reputation for quality of service,
which they
>also farm out for other retail stores. Their TV departments vary
greatly
>from store to store but, in the larger stores, they usually have lots
of
>choices on display. They will dicker on price and match competitor's
prices
>+ 10% of the difference. If they are late in delivering, they will
knock
>more money off. If you don't like your TV, you can take it back in
60 days
>for a full refund, for any reason or no reason. If you buy their
extended
>warranty, they provide in-home service from day one and fix anything
that
>goes wrong, even if the problem is just cosmetic.



As I am coming to find out, some people hold a grudge way longer than
they should. Every store, if they are open long enough, will face
problems, and certain bad publicity.
All told, Sears is still around, and there is a reason for that.
Thankfully, some reasonable people have stepped forward and spoken the
truth that Sears does a pretty good job, especially in their
electronics department.
I encourage those people who had a bad experience back in 1973 to give
them another chance, and then let all of us know what you thought.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Lola wrote:


> As I am coming to find out, some people hold a grudge way longer than
> they should. Every store, if they are open long enough, will face
> problems, and certain bad publicity.
> All told, Sears is still around, and there is a reason for that.
> Thankfully, some reasonable people have stepped forward and spoken the
> truth that Sears does a pretty good job, especially in their
> electronics department.
> I encourage those people who had a bad experience back in 1973 to give
> them another chance, and then let all of us know what you thought.

After years of going to Sears to buy flyer items only to find that they
were "sold out" when the doors opened on the first day of the sale I
stopped buying anything from Sears. Last summer I bought a GE double
wall oven from Sears via the internet (best price, lowest deliver cost).
My credit card company called to see if it was fraud.

Matthew (happy with the purchase from Sears)

--
Thermodynamics and/or Golf for dummies: There is a game
You can't win
You can't break even
You can't get out of the game