Can Analog and MPEG receivers BOTH control feedhorn servo ..

G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.video.satellite.tvro,alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

Hello. I want to preface this by saying that I have some experience with
C-band analog but have just had my first encounter with MPEG, while trying
to set up a system for a relative (we're still in the process). So maybe
the question I'm about to ask has been discussed before, but if so I
haven't seen any references to it.

Apparently most users in the United States "slave" an MPEG receiver off of
an analog C/Ku receiver (as we are doing). The drawback to this is that
apparently the analog receiver must be left on and set to a channel of the
proper polarity. So even if you are on the right satellite, the MPEG
receiver can only pick up the signals on the same polarity that the analog
receiver is set to (horizontal or vertical).

BUT, it appears that some models of MPEG receivers (such as the Pansat
2500A) can control a feedhorn servo motor (a.k.a. "Polarizer"). So my
question is, why not let the MPEG receiver control the servo while the user
is watching that receiver, and let the analog receiver control the servo
otherwise.

To me it seems ALMOST simple. Assuming that the ground wires from the
analog and digital receivers can just be connected together (and to the
black ground wire going to the servo motor), that leaves only the red +5
volt wire and the white pulse wire that would have to be switched between
receivers. IF that is true - and I have not tested this theory - it seems
like one could use a mechanical DPDT switch and just set it to run the
servo off either the analog receiver or the MPEG receiver, by switching the
red and white wires.

But if you are the sort that doesn't like to get up and physically toggle a
switch, then it seems like a relay of some kind could be used to accomplish
the same purpose. If the MPEG receiver has a power outlet tap, you could
just use a DPDT relay with a 110 VAC coil and wire it so the presence of
110 volts closes the relay and switches the wires to the MPEG receiver
(read 220 volts instead of 110 if that's the local voltage where you live).

Otherwise I'm not sure how you'd trigger the relay remotely. To me it
would be great to have some way to do it when the MPEG receiver is actually
in use. If that +5 volt terminal puts out a constant +5 volts while the
receiver is on, but has no voltage on it when the receiver is switched off
(I do NOT know exactly how servo motors operate electrically), then you
could probably just use a relay triggered by 5 volts DC - then you could
wire it so whenever the MPEG receiver was on, it would control the servo
motor (by wiring the relay coil to +5 volts and ground), but when it was
powered down the relay would drop out and transfer control of the servo
motor back to the analog receiver.

Now, I figure someone HAS to have tried this - at least the mechanical
switch part. I can't possibly be the first one to think of something like
this. But maybe there is some reason this wouldn't work that I'm not aware
of? So I'm asking, has anyone actually tried anything like this and if so,
did it work okay? And if you used a relay, do you happen to have a source
for i? And did you have to add any circuitry to it (for example, any sort
of anti-kickback circuitry)?

Or am I the only one who feels that it's inconvenient to have to change
channels on the analog receiver just so you can see the rest of the
channels on the MPEG receiver?

One other question, does anyone know of a good source for relatively
inexpensive DiSEqC switches? I read that you have to have one to switch
between C and Ku band, and have seen them in a whole bunch of different
price ranges. We only need a two port one for now, but might get a four
port one if it's nearly the same price. Anything to watch out for when
buying one? Also, the relative in question has a good SW 21 switch but I
assume that this is NOT a DiSEqC switch and that the Pansat receiver cannot
control it? Or if I am wrong in thinking that, then how would you instruct
the Pansat to use the SW 21 switch (or is the SW 21 in fact a DiSEqC
switch)?

Sorry if this is all elementary stuff but I'm very new to MPEG. I would
much appreciate it if replies would be posted to the newsgroup - I just
changed e-mail addresses not too long ago to keep from getting buried in
spam, and really don't wish to post the new one I have now.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.video.satellite.tvro,alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

not-a-real-email@donotemail.us wrote:

> Hello. I want to preface this by saying that I have some experience with
> C-band analog but have just had my first encounter with MPEG, while trying
> to set up a system for a relative (we're still in the process). So maybe
> the question I'm about to ask has been discussed before, but if so I
> haven't seen any references to it.
>
> Apparently most users in the United States "slave" an MPEG receiver off of
> an analog C/Ku receiver (as we are doing). The drawback to this is that
> apparently the analog receiver must be left on and set to a channel of the
> proper polarity. So even if you are on the right satellite, the MPEG
> receiver can only pick up the signals on the same polarity that the analog
> receiver is set to (horizontal or vertical).
>
> BUT, it appears that some models of MPEG receivers (such as the Pansat
> 2500A) can control a feedhorn servo motor (a.k.a. "Polarizer"). So my
> question is, why not let the MPEG receiver control the servo while the user
> is watching that receiver, and let the analog receiver control the servo
> otherwise.
>
> To me it seems ALMOST simple. Assuming that the ground wires from the
> analog and digital receivers can just be connected together (and to the
> black ground wire going to the servo motor), that leaves only the red +5
> volt wire and the white pulse wire that would have to be switched between
> receivers. IF that is true - and I have not tested this theory - it seems
> like one could use a mechanical DPDT switch and just set it to run the
> servo off either the analog receiver or the MPEG receiver, by switching the
> red and white wires.

That would work fine. A speaker selector box from Radio Shack works well.
(It needs to be the kind where the outputs are mutually exclusive.)

> But if you are the sort that doesn't like to get up and physically toggle a
> switch, then it seems like a relay of some kind could be used to accomplish
> the same purpose. If the MPEG receiver has a power outlet tap, you could
> just use a DPDT relay with a 110 VAC coil and wire it so the presence of
> 110 volts closes the relay and switches the wires to the MPEG receiver
> (read 220 volts instead of 110 if that's the local voltage where you live).

Most DVB receivers have a +12V output that you can have turned on when
the receiver is turned on. It's normally used to control a switch to
toggle LNBs, but it doesn't have to be used only for that purpose. Just
configure it to be on for any satellites you want to watch.

> Otherwise I'm not sure how you'd trigger the relay remotely. To me it
> would be great to have some way to do it when the MPEG receiver is actually
> in use. If that +5 volt terminal puts out a constant +5 volts while the
> receiver is on, but has no voltage on it when the receiver is switched off
> (I do NOT know exactly how servo motors operate electrically), then you
> could probably just use a relay triggered by 5 volts DC - then you could
> wire it so whenever the MPEG receiver was on, it would control the servo
> motor (by wiring the relay coil to +5 volts and ground), but when it was
> powered down the relay would drop out and transfer control of the servo
> motor back to the analog receiver.

On receivers that I have experience with, the +5V line is only powered
when the polarization is being adjusted.

> Now, I figure someone HAS to have tried this - at least the mechanical
> switch part. I can't possibly be the first one to think of something like
> this. But maybe there is some reason this wouldn't work that I'm not aware
> of? So I'm asking, has anyone actually tried anything like this and if so,
> did it work okay? And if you used a relay, do you happen to have a source
> for i? And did you have to add any circuitry to it (for example, any sort
> of anti-kickback circuitry)?

Nothing fancy needed.

> Or am I the only one who feels that it's inconvenient to have to change
> channels on the analog receiver just so you can see the rest of the
> channels on the MPEG receiver?

You're not the only one.

> One other question, does anyone know of a good source for relatively
> inexpensive DiSEqC switches? I read that you have to have one to switch
> between C and Ku band, and have seen them in a whole bunch of different
> price ranges. We only need a two port one for now, but might get a four
> port one if it's nearly the same price. Anything to watch out for when
> buying one? Also, the relative in question has a good SW 21 switch but I
> assume that this is NOT a DiSEqC switch and that the Pansat receiver cannot
> control it? Or if I am wrong in thinking that, then how would you instruct
> the Pansat to use the SW 21 switch (or is the SW 21 in fact a DiSEqC
> switch)?

Ebay used to be good for switches. A SW21 won't work, since it's a Dish
Network proprietary jobbie. A DP21 switch from Dish would work, though.

> Sorry if this is all elementary stuff but I'm very new to MPEG. I would
> much appreciate it if replies would be posted to the newsgroup - I just
> changed e-mail addresses not too long ago to keep from getting buried in
> spam, and really don't wish to post the new one I have now.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.video.satellite.tvro,alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

You still need the analog receiver to change sats. Would the extra
effort, to switch between polarizer controlling be worth it???
Mike

not-a-real-email@donotemail.us wrote:
>
> Hello. I want to preface this by saying that I have some experience with
> C-band analog but have just had my first encounter with MPEG, while trying
> to set up a system for a relative (we're still in the process). So maybe
> the question I'm about to ask has been discussed before, but if so I
> haven't seen any references to it.
>
> Apparently most users in the United States "slave" an MPEG receiver off of
> an analog C/Ku receiver (as we are doing). The drawback to this is that
> apparently the analog receiver must be left on and set to a channel of the
> proper polarity. So even if you are on the right satellite, the MPEG
> receiver can only pick up the signals on the same polarity that the analog
> receiver is set to (horizontal or vertical).
>
> BUT, it appears that some models of MPEG receivers (such as the Pansat
> 2500A) can control a feedhorn servo motor (a.k.a. "Polarizer"). So my
> question is, why not let the MPEG receiver control the servo while the user
> is watching that receiver, and let the analog receiver control the servo
> otherwise.
>
> To me it seems ALMOST simple. Assuming that the ground wires from the
> analog and digital receivers can just be connected together (and to the
> black ground wire going to the servo motor), that leaves only the red +5
> volt wire and the white pulse wire that would have to be switched between
> receivers. IF that is true - and I have not tested this theory - it seems
> like one could use a mechanical DPDT switch and just set it to run the
> servo off either the analog receiver or the MPEG receiver, by switching the
> red and white wires.
>
> But if you are the sort that doesn't like to get up and physically toggle a
> switch, then it seems like a relay of some kind could be used to accomplish
> the same purpose. If the MPEG receiver has a power outlet tap, you could
> just use a DPDT relay with a 110 VAC coil and wire it so the presence of
> 110 volts closes the relay and switches the wires to the MPEG receiver
> (read 220 volts instead of 110 if that's the local voltage where you live).
>
> Otherwise I'm not sure how you'd trigger the relay remotely. To me it
> would be great to have some way to do it when the MPEG receiver is actually
> in use. If that +5 volt terminal puts out a constant +5 volts while the
> receiver is on, but has no voltage on it when the receiver is switched off
> (I do NOT know exactly how servo motors operate electrically), then you
> could probably just use a relay triggered by 5 volts DC - then you could
> wire it so whenever the MPEG receiver was on, it would control the servo
> motor (by wiring the relay coil to +5 volts and ground), but when it was
> powered down the relay would drop out and transfer control of the servo
> motor back to the analog receiver.
>
> Now, I figure someone HAS to have tried this - at least the mechanical
> switch part. I can't possibly be the first one to think of something like
> this. But maybe there is some reason this wouldn't work that I'm not aware
> of? So I'm asking, has anyone actually tried anything like this and if so,
> did it work okay? And if you used a relay, do you happen to have a source
> for i? And did you have to add any circuitry to it (for example, any sort
> of anti-kickback circuitry)?
>
> Or am I the only one who feels that it's inconvenient to have to change
> channels on the analog receiver just so you can see the rest of the
> channels on the MPEG receiver?
>
> One other question, does anyone know of a good source for relatively
> inexpensive DiSEqC switches? I read that you have to have one to switch
> between C and Ku band, and have seen them in a whole bunch of different
> price ranges. We only need a two port one for now, but might get a four
> port one if it's nearly the same price. Anything to watch out for when
> buying one? Also, the relative in question has a good SW 21 switch but I
> assume that this is NOT a DiSEqC switch and that the Pansat receiver cannot
> control it? Or if I am wrong in thinking that, then how would you instruct
> the Pansat to use the SW 21 switch (or is the SW 21 in fact a DiSEqC
> switch)?
>
> Sorry if this is all elementary stuff but I'm very new to MPEG. I would
> much appreciate it if replies would be posted to the newsgroup - I just
> changed e-mail addresses not too long ago to keep from getting buried in
> spam, and really don't wish to post the new one I have now.
 

Brian

Distinguished
Sep 9, 2003
322
0
18,930
0
Archived from groups: rec.video.satellite.tvro,alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

You do not need an analog receiver to control the actuator. Simply add a
VBox to your DVB MPEG2 receiver and the DiSEqC 1.2 protocol will be
translated to control the actuator.

A 0/12 vdc dpdt switch will throw the control of the polarotor between the
receivers.

-------------------
Brian Gohl
Satellite Audio Video
http://www.adventistsat.com


<"steelblu<E>"@neo.rr.com> wrote in message news:40E57EC9.5740@neo.rr.com...
> You still need the analog receiver to change sats. Would the extra
> effort, to switch between polarizer controlling be worth it???
> Mike
>
> not-a-real-email@donotemail.us wrote:
> >
> > Hello. I want to preface this by saying that I have some experience
with
> > C-band analog but have just had my first encounter with MPEG, while
trying
> > to set up a system for a relative (we're still in the process). So
maybe
> > the question I'm about to ask has been discussed before, but if so I
> > haven't seen any references to it.
> >
> > Apparently most users in the United States "slave" an MPEG receiver off
of
> > an analog C/Ku receiver (as we are doing). The drawback to this is that
> > apparently the analog receiver must be left on and set to a channel of
the
> > proper polarity. So even if you are on the right satellite, the MPEG
> > receiver can only pick up the signals on the same polarity that the
analog
> > receiver is set to (horizontal or vertical).
> >
> > BUT, it appears that some models of MPEG receivers (such as the Pansat
> > 2500A) can control a feedhorn servo motor (a.k.a. "Polarizer"). So my
> > question is, why not let the MPEG receiver control the servo while the
user
> > is watching that receiver, and let the analog receiver control the servo
> > otherwise.
> >
> > To me it seems ALMOST simple. Assuming that the ground wires from the
> > analog and digital receivers can just be connected together (and to the
> > black ground wire going to the servo motor), that leaves only the red +5
> > volt wire and the white pulse wire that would have to be switched
between
> > receivers. IF that is true - and I have not tested this theory - it
seems
> > like one could use a mechanical DPDT switch and just set it to run the
> > servo off either the analog receiver or the MPEG receiver, by switching
the
> > red and white wires.
> >
> > But if you are the sort that doesn't like to get up and physically
toggle a
> > switch, then it seems like a relay of some kind could be used to
accomplish
> > the same purpose. If the MPEG receiver has a power outlet tap, you
could
> > just use a DPDT relay with a 110 VAC coil and wire it so the presence of
> > 110 volts closes the relay and switches the wires to the MPEG receiver
> > (read 220 volts instead of 110 if that's the local voltage where you
live).
> >
> > Otherwise I'm not sure how you'd trigger the relay remotely. To me it
> > would be great to have some way to do it when the MPEG receiver is
actually
> > in use. If that +5 volt terminal puts out a constant +5 volts while the
> > receiver is on, but has no voltage on it when the receiver is switched
off
> > (I do NOT know exactly how servo motors operate electrically), then you
> > could probably just use a relay triggered by 5 volts DC - then you could
> > wire it so whenever the MPEG receiver was on, it would control the servo
> > motor (by wiring the relay coil to +5 volts and ground), but when it was
> > powered down the relay would drop out and transfer control of the servo
> > motor back to the analog receiver.
> >
> > Now, I figure someone HAS to have tried this - at least the mechanical
> > switch part. I can't possibly be the first one to think of something
like
> > this. But maybe there is some reason this wouldn't work that I'm not
aware
> > of? So I'm asking, has anyone actually tried anything like this and if
so,
> > did it work okay? And if you used a relay, do you happen to have a
source
> > for i? And did you have to add any circuitry to it (for example, any
sort
> > of anti-kickback circuitry)?
> >
> > Or am I the only one who feels that it's inconvenient to have to change
> > channels on the analog receiver just so you can see the rest of the
> > channels on the MPEG receiver?
> >
> > One other question, does anyone know of a good source for relatively
> > inexpensive DiSEqC switches? I read that you have to have one to switch
> > between C and Ku band, and have seen them in a whole bunch of different
> > price ranges. We only need a two port one for now, but might get a four
> > port one if it's nearly the same price. Anything to watch out for when
> > buying one? Also, the relative in question has a good SW 21 switch but
I
> > assume that this is NOT a DiSEqC switch and that the Pansat receiver
cannot
> > control it? Or if I am wrong in thinking that, then how would you
instruct
> > the Pansat to use the SW 21 switch (or is the SW 21 in fact a DiSEqC
> > switch)?
> >
> > Sorry if this is all elementary stuff but I'm very new to MPEG. I would
> > much appreciate it if replies would be posted to the newsgroup - I just
> > changed e-mail addresses not too long ago to keep from getting buried in
> > spam, and really don't wish to post the new one I have now.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: rec.video.satellite.tvro,alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

Zoyburg <rats@attib.com> wrote:
>Most DVB receivers have a +12V output that you can have turned on when
>the receiver is turned on. It's normally used to control a switch to
>toggle LNBs, but it doesn't have to be used only for that purpose. Just
>configure it to be on for any satellites you want to watch.

Thanks. Do you know if that's specifically true for the Pansat 2500A?
Also, you say it CAN be turned on when the receiver is turned on, does that
mean you have to do something special to get it to turn on?

"steelblu<E>"@neo.rr.com wrote:
>You still need the analog receiver to change sats. Would the extra
>effort, to switch between polarizer controlling be worth it???

Yes, because it would mean not having to fumble with two remote controls to
tune all the services on a satellite. I witnessed this firsthand while
watching the family member in question trying to learn how to tune in
channels. He'd be scratching his head saying "Why can't I get this station
now, it was there last time I tuned to this satellite" and then you'd see
that the channel on the analog receiver was on the wrong polarity. Granted
that you still have to use the analog receiver to move the dish (in a
dual-receiver situation) but having to remember to change the channel on
the analog receiver introduces an additional level of complication, and
just plain makes it harder to channel-surf!

"Brian" <b.gohl@comcast.net> wrote:
>You do not need an analog receiver to control the actuator. Simply add a
>VBox to your DVB MPEG2 receiver and the DiSEqC 1.2 protocol will be
>translated to control the actuator.

That's good to know, but in a situation where you already have an analog
receiver with a dish positioner built in, you might as well use that rather
than spend about $80 for the VBox. As I see it, there would be no way to
swap the positioner arm between two different controllers anyway, because
the moment you moved the position using one receiver, the other would "lose
count" of where it was in the arc. Actually, I was afraid that something
like that might also be the case with the feedhorn servo, so that's why I
wanted to first ask here if anyone had tried it.

Thank you to all for the replies - I think maybe we will at least try the
DPDT switch and if that works okay, try to obtain a 12 VDC relay, assuming
I can figure out if and how the to control it from the 2500A.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Archived from groups: alt.video.satellite.mpeg-dvb (More info?)

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 17:34:14 -0400, not-a-real-email@donotemail.us wrote:


>Thank you to all for the replies - I think maybe we will at least try the
>DPDT switch and if that works okay, try to obtain a 12 VDC relay, assuming
>I can figure out if and how the to control it from the 2500A.

Radio Shack have a small 12 VDC switch, I fitted one in a
modified splitter to use to switch the antenna LNB between
Ku and C bands. It is controlled on the menus for the
different satellites where you set up the LO frequency and
other parameters.
 
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