Google: We Saved You From a Draconian Future

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kartu

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[citation][nom]segio526[/nom]I have yet to read an argument in these comments that is both Anti-Google and makes sense. Everyone seems to be banking on some notion that Google WILL succeed and dominate at everything they do and once their reach covers every person on the planet, they'll flip some switch and enslave us all and force us to...I don't know...farm or something?[/citation]

I wonder, where does all that "love for google" come from? What is it based on? Exactly what is making you "love" company that has yet to make a move that doesn't benefit it commercially? Company that has 90% of the market. Company that keeps youtube's ads prices low (despite youtube losing money) keeping pressure on competitors?

How is google pushing Chrome browser much different from Microsoft pushing IE? Why do we need yet another WebKit based browser?
 
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"Google implement closed-source (proprietary) search engine algorithms that are collecting and collating internet users data in a way that is gaining an alarming omniscience. I've never felt that about Apple. Have you?"

No, but then again I haven't felt that way about Google either.

As I explained previously it's hardly an unique practice, every company and government agency that exists collects as much data as they possibly can for their own benefit. The only thing that separate Google from the rest in this regard is the fact that they're open about it and has a fair few people, and organizations, watching them like a hawk for any sign of misconduct.

I wish I could say the same for every other company, or government agency, out there.

"I wonder, where does all that "love for google" come from?"

Let's call it giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Google hasn't executed everything perfectly by any means but considering their size and market they are a shining beacon compared to the competition. Thus it makes sense, to me anyway, to at least wait until there's somthing of substance to oppose before taking a stand against them.
 

Usersname

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[citation][nom]Exodite13[/nom] Thus it makes sense, to me anyway, to at least wait until there's somthing of substance to oppose before taking a stand against them.[/citation] "First they came..." Personally, I don't give Apple, MS, Intel, Google, etc., any benefit of the doubt. They are capitalists who put their own interests before all others.
 

jtGRME

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[citation][nom]kartu[/nom]I wonder, where does all that "love for google" come from? What is it based on? Exactly what is making you "love" company that has yet to make a move that doesn't benefit it commercially? Company that has 90% of the market. Company that keeps youtube's ads prices low (despite youtube losing money) keeping pressure on competitors? How is google pushing Chrome browser much different from Microsoft pushing IE? Why do we need yet another WebKit based browser?[/citation]

As far as I can tell, nowhere in his post did he say he loved google. He merely pointed out that, in these comments, the arguments against google have been poorly constructed/made little sense. I feel yours falls into that category.
Your first part could apply to ANY company out there. What company does things that do NOT benefit it commercially? "Putting pressure on competitors" - that just describes nearly all other companies - it's business sense. But because it's google somehow it is evil or something.
I think there's a big difference betwween chrome and IE.
1. Chrome is good - google are 'sharing the love'
2. Chrome is a choice. Much more so than IE, which was pre-installed on your pc if yougot any form of windowsw. If you, or anyone else doesn't want chrome, fine, don't get it.
 

Usersname

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Look, Schmidt sat on the Board of Apple and was privy to meetings about the iPhone long before his resignation. Google bought Android in 2005 (two years before the first iPhone was even launched) so Google had prior (inside) knowledge of Apple's smartphone marketing strategy. This is why Steve Jobs feels betrayed. Google believe in Doing no evil. Then they have the gall to suggest after the fact that Google is saving consumers from a "draconian" future (which didn't exist at the time Android was coded). This smacks of the most absurd hypocrisy and dishonesty. Thus:

"If Google didn't act, it faced a draconian future where one man, one phone, one carrier were our choice," he said. "That's a future we don't want."
His words echoed vice president of engineering Andy Rubin (and former CEO of Android Inc. before it was assimilated by Google) who shared the same dream of rebelling against Apple's dominance."

What dominance? Apple wasn't marketing iPhone when Android was conceived and subsequently acquired by Google. It's all just current marketing hype designed to look like an altruistic gesture devised to enrich the gullible with anti-Apple propaganda. Believe Google if you must, but I remain highly sceptical.
 

loomis86

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I'm fed up with all of them...google, apple, facebook...and microsoft. It's time for sony to create their own OS, then I can be fed up with them too.
 
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[citation][nom]jtGRME[/nom]I think there's a big difference betwween chrome and IE.1. Chrome is good - google are 'sharing the love'2. Chrome is a choice. Much more so than IE, which was pre-installed on your pc if yougot any form of windowsw.[/citation]

OMG they are giving you free software that allows you to get connected the second you boot windows. Basic Software to do everyday tasks for Free preinstalled in a OS is EVIL. EVVVVVVVIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!
 
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stm1185

a free piece of software thats was riddled with bugs and security holes, thats was lightyear behind what was currently available that was slow and cumbersome, and yet now no one even remembers netscape, funny how that worked huh
 

xterrain15

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[citation][nom]kartu[/nom]I wonder, where does all that "love for google" come from? What is it based on? Exactly what is making you "love" company that has yet to make a move that doesn't benefit it commercially? Company that has 90% of the market. Company that keeps youtube's ads prices low (despite youtube losing money) keeping pressure on competitors? How is google pushing Chrome browser much different from Microsoft pushing IE? Why do we need yet another WebKit based browser?[/citation]

I am honestly fine with Google's control over so much of the market simply because they use it responsibly. Their keeping Youtube competitive is fine with me, because Youtube is THE BEST. Their search engine dominates others because is is THE BEST. They gained control by making good stuff. That's how competition works. Whoever cares enough to make their product best will win the consumers. Android OS is BEST. That's why I support it. Not to be anti-apple, not because I love Google. Because it is the BEST.
 
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"Google believe in Doing no evil."

Which could be construed to mean anything, though the most reasonable interpretation for a company the size of Google would be to compete on the merits of their products rather than through legal wrangling, exclusive deals or whatever underhanded tactics companies usually employ when they believe they can get away with it.

Again, I've yet to see anyone making Google out to be saints. It's just that I haven't seen any other company do better, or as well for that matter.

To point fingers and name names it's easily noted that companies such as Microsoft, Apple and even Intel hasn't just been accused of uncompetitive practices but in several cases even been convicted over them.

Add to that the propensity towards ignoring known issues, drowning the competition in legal disputes regarding inane software patents and coming up with intricate legalese as excuses when caught with their hands in the cookie jar and it's easy to see why Google make a good impression.

For example, when it was discovered that they had captured some payload data from unencrypted wireless networks they not only fessed up to it but actually apologized and asked for third party insight into how to deal with the situation. No excuses.

The fact that the data in question were even gathered in the first place is bad, granted, but I've yet to see a company, any company, handle a situation as gracefully as that.

"First they came..."

Only they've yet to actually come for anyone, which is the entire point of this debate. A more appropriate story would be the one about 'The Boy Who Cried Wolf'.
 

matt87_50

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[citation][nom]Smochina[/nom]Fuck you google and your stupid ass java virtual machine of which you have no idea how to fix to make it stable, remember the answers you give to developers when they ask advices about what not to do prevent the stupid VM from crashing? You have no clue how to at least prevent crashes, let alone fix them, and you want to protect us from apple?. Face it, you are enable to come up with a decent operating system, Android is crap, chrome os is just plain stupid. Fuck you and your big brother future where everybody will be using your cloud.[/citation]

perhaps a bit over the top, but I have to agree, Google's love affair with java is a bit strange, also the biggest flaw I saw in Android. running everything through a VM on a MOBILE device?? are you crazy??? at least now they have finally seen the light, and as of 2.2, everything will be just-in-time compiled to native code. "oh what a surprise! everything is now 2 to 5 times faster!!!".... yeah... no doubt it will do even more to aid battery life, something reportedly quite poor on current android.

now that they DO have JIT compiling though, their method will work out FAR better than iphone and its 'statically-compiled-to-native-before-submit' method. As it is, the only reason old iphone apps work on newer idevices is because ARM puts all the old instruction sets in their new CPUs. should apple ever want to move to a different instruction set, they are going to have a bit of trouble getting all their old apps to work on it (you think they might have learned from PPC->Intel eh?).

as for google, all they need to do now when they come across a new instruction set is just make a new JIT compiler, and everything will just work, perfectly optimally for the new cpu!

as for the whole 1984 thing? yeah! go google! and I am so sick of all these people going "oh google are DEFINITELY going to be as evil as Apple when they have a bigger share!" way to have a positive outlook guys! all I know is google have never done any wrong by me! which is far from what can be said about Apple (well if i'd ever bought an apple product). I can't believe actual telcos are getting caught up in these conspiracy theories!


 

matt87_50

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just to clarify my last comment, I only read the first part of Smochina's comment, about java, I completely disagree with everything else he says. and I haven't done java coding on android myself, so I'm unable to comment on the VM's stability, however I'd think one of the great advantages of a completely managed VM over native code would be the ability to get good detailed debugging information no matter how poor your code may be. if that isn't the case then something is wrong.

P.S. sif use Java! :D every platform using a completely different language REALLY helps in making cross platform apps that truly gives the consumers the choice in both apps and hardware that they deserve... iphone uses objc but at least supports c++, android uses java (though I hope to high heavens that the NDK c++ supports full apps) and Windows will use C#... portability fail...
 

Usersname

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[citation][nom]Exodite14[/nom]'The Boy Who Cried Wolf'.[/citation] Er, and what happened to him? Aren't you getting a tad confused? I'm sorry but your arguments sound like those I heard from Apple fans for years and whilst I use theirs and other manufacturers products I trust none of them to act in my (or even your) best interests.
Maybe the metaphor you were aiming for was 'Wolf in sheep's clothing'?
What is your Google Employee number?
 

Usersname

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[citation][nom]Exodite14[/nom]"Google believe in Doing no evil." Which could be construed to mean anything, though the most reasonable interpretation for a company the size of Google would be to compete on the merits of their products rather than through legal wrangling, exclusive deals or whatever underhanded tactics companies usually employ when they believe they can get away with it.[/citation] Google are toddlers in this market. Betting it wont be long before they start in with litigation and whinging about IP protection. [citation][nom]Exodite14[/nom]Again, I've yet to see anyone making Google out to be saints. It's just that I haven't seen any other company do better, or as well for that matter. To point fingers and name names it's easily noted that companies such as Microsoft, Apple and even Intel hasn't just been accused of uncompetitive practices but in several cases even been convicted over them.[/citation] Again, give Google time (they may have some convictions coming their way from the EU). [citation][nom]Exodite14[/nom] For example, when it was discovered that they had captured some payload data from unencrypted wireless networks they not only fessed up to it but actually apologized and asked for third party insight into how to deal with the situation.[/citation] Whose to say they didn't clone all that data onto other storage media and whisk it away for sale to various government agencies before asking for "outside help"? [citation][nom]Exodite14[/nom]No excuses.The fact that the data in question were even gathered in the first place is bad, granted[/citation] You said it...

Look what Wall St. got away with.
 
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isn't it funny that they are using an Apple laptop :) 3:38 ;]
But seriously, out of those two evils I'm not sure which one I'd prefer..
 
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"Er, and what happened to him? Aren't you getting a tad confused?"

Not at all. You are 'The Boy Who Cried Wolf', that's my point.

Your alarmist tendencies does you cause little good, as people will have grown tired of it by the time there's actually something out there to criticize.

"What is your Google Employee number?
...
Google are toddlers in this market. Betting it wont be long before they start in with litigation and whinging about IP protection.
...
Again, give Google time (they may have some convictions coming their way from the EU).
...
Whose to say they didn't clone all that data onto other storage media and whisk it away for sale to various government agencies before asking for "outside help"?"

Thanks for making my point.

You're clearly way beyond reasonable arguments at this point, it's all unsubstantiated paranoia.

You choice of course, though personally I'll stick to criticizing and worrying about actual facts rather than "what if's".
 

Usersname

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[citation][nom]Exodite15[/nom]Your choice of course, though personally I'll stick to criticizing and worrying about actual facts rather than "what if's".[/citation] You forget this thread was started because Vic Gundotra (paraphrasing Rubin) lied at the I/O keynote about the threat of a Draconian future which hadn't even been created when Android was acquired. Not a "what if" scenario...A Google head honcho did spread FUD. Their mud-slinging was rather pathetic and disingenuous.

http://vimeo.com/9925756

Google, like Apple is capitalistic; neither anybodies friend.
 

lobsterm

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Chrome os is a joke ( I have it on VM player), it is frustrating to use , Android is OK with more possibilities.
 
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"Google, like Apple is capitalistic; neither anybodies friend."

No one is arguing that particular point.

The step from that realization to unsubstantiated paranoia is rather large however, and not one most of us will make.

As for FUD you're really not in a position to argue that. You'll have to excuse me for quoting the same post twice but if I wanted to exemplify FUD I couldn't hope to do better than...

"What is your Google Employee number?
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Google are toddlers in this market. Betting it wont be long before they start in with litigation and whinging about IP protection.
...
Again, give Google time (they may have some convictions coming their way from the EU).
...
Whose to say they didn't clone all that data onto other storage media and whisk it away for sale to various government agencies before asking for 'outside help'?"

That's textbook material really.
 

Usersname

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[citation][nom]Exodite16[/nom]"Google, like Apple is capitalistic; neither anybody's friend."No one is arguing that particular point.[/citation] Yes, you are. You're giving a capitalist business the benefit of doubt.
[citation][nom]Exodite16[/nom]The step from that realization to unsubstantiated paranoia is rather large however, and not one most of us will make.[/citation] You're quite right. Not many people think beyond the objectives to the consequences of capitalism.
Really, your deliberate avoidance of tackling the deceptive message portrayed by Vic Gundotra and Rubin regarding Apple's "Draconian" product placement is textbook obfuscation. What are you afraid of? Clay feet?
Tell me, why do Google patent anything?
Mindful, do you trust that their claims to IP will never be brought to bear on future competitors or customers in a Draconian fashion?
Why do they need to retain your personal data for 18 months? Will this give them a competitive edge? If so, how so? Does it not concern you that you are being monitored for 18 months at a time in perpetuity?
Your naivety is astounding. Children usually begin life as "adorable" things; playing with little robot dolls, their upturned angelic faces smeared with cup-cake icing. Then they discover they can use lies to obtain what they want. Those who don't spot the lie become complicit in its deception.
 
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