Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (
More info?)
"curmudgeon" <curmudgeon@buzzoff.net> wrote in message
news:FqMYd.24435$6g7.19004@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
> The Pioneer will ONLY show 480p (not 420!) & 1080i in its FULL mode. All
> other "screen modes" are locked out. So you can't do a "zoom" or "cinema
> wide" version of either of those signals.
>
> The HD tivo should only be used in normal for HD viewing. No reason to
> "zoom" an HD picture.
>
> West wing transmits a 16:9 picture EVEN on a SD station. It will have
> black borders top and bottom THIS IS NOT STANDARD PRACTICE.
>
> In other words, West Wing is the exception, not the rule. Watch west wing
> on a HD station, and the black borders disappear on your 16:9 tv.
> I never watch ER, but I think it might be the same deal.
>
> In short, I think your concerns are the fault of the station/network...not
> your set or your tivo. Next time you want to compare, do it on a CBS
> HD/SD program....they don't use these flakey pseudo 16:9 formats on their
> SD programming.
>
>
>
>
> "Dan" <d-nospam-wilks@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> news:t9HYd.17587$Pz7.3089@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
>> Obviously I missed the thin line between not enough and too much
>> information...
>>
>> TV as I mentioned is a Pioneer Eliete PRO-610HD
>>
>> Tuner 1 is an HD DirecTivo HR10-250
>> Connection between the two is component video
>> Source was OTA KNTV 11.1, the Tivo was set to 1080i, TV in FULL mode
>> (same prob in 420p FULL)
>>
>> Tuner 2 is a SD DirecTvo (Sony T-60?)
>> Connection is s-video
>> Source was KNTV 11 DirecTV feed.
>> Modes: NORMAL & ZOOM
>>
>> Aspect ratio looked pretty good from all sources & modes. (Although
>> Josh's head seems a bit long and skinny in both SD and HD.)
>>
>> From the SD Tivo in ZOOM mode of the tv (width & height stretched
>> equally) the picture is cropped about 1.5" from the top (and a similar
>> but unmeasured amount from the bottom). I have to set the screen
>> position to -8 to see the top of the frame and +6 to see the bottom. The
>> aspect ratio appears good in this mode.
>>
>> (This has always been the case with this TV with shows like West Wing,
>> ER, and Enterprise. Are these shows truly 16:9? Is the TV truly 16:9?)
>>
>> From the HD Tivo in 1080i (and 420p) the pictures are cropped slightly
>> more than that. I'm loosing about 1" off the top and bottom of the frame
>> compared with 480i zoomed mode. In total that is 2.5" that I'm loosing
>> just off the top of the frame.
>>
>> As an aside I did the same comparison with Joey (yea, I know) after I
>> wrote the first post. The aspect ratio looked spot-on. There was some
>> minor vertical cropping (about 1/2" off the top & bottom), nothing like
>> on West Wing though.
>>
>> Is this normal? I've learned to live with the cropping of letterboxed
>> shows in SD but didn't expect even more cropping with HD. Without
>> thinking about it much, I expected less cropping. Is there anything I
>> can/should do?
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Dan
>>
>> "Charles Tomaras" <tomaras@tomaras.com> wrote in message
>> news:ELydnXQHxrTWrq7fRVn-gA@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> "Dan" <d-nospam-wilks@pacbell.net> wrote in message
>>> news:wYuYd.8398$C47.1173@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>>>> Is the TV or NBC?
>>>>
>>>> I've had the Pioneer set for quite a few years now but am just arriving
>>>> at the HD party. The other night I was watching West Wing for the
>>>> first time in HD (KNTV 11.1 in the Bay Area). The framing appeared to
>>>> be just a bit off - the there wasn't much headroom in any of the shots.
>>>> I switched over to the other input to watch the signal coming from my
>>>> SD tivo. Low and behold the HD picture was having severe vertical
>>>> minor horizontal problems. Where the SD version had a few "inches"
>>>> between the actors heads and the top of the frame the HD version was
>>>> cut off right at the tops of their heads. There was a small amount of
>>>> cropping on the sides.
>>>
>>> How did the aspect ratio look in the HD version and the SD version? Did
>>> people appear anatomically correct or was there distortion? What aspect
>>> ratio modes where you in for this comparison.
>>>
>>> I believe on the Pioneer Elite series you should be in FULL mode when
>>> watching the HD source. Difficult to fully diagnose without you listing
>>> your television mode, tuner and tuner mode etc, but it sounds like you
>>> might have had your HD tuner set for a 4:3 television and your Pioneer
>>> Elite in ZOOM mode. Go through and check out all your settings. Your
>>> tuner should be told that you have a 16:9 television and your television
>>> should be in full mode when watching output from your properly set
>>> tuner.
>>>
>>> Charles Tomaras
>>> Seattle, WA
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> The Pioneer will ONLY show 480p (not 420!) & 1080i in its FULL mode. All
> other "screen modes" are locked out. So you can't do a "zoom" or "cinema
> wide" version of either of those signals.
Yes, I know. I am zooming the SD version of WW (recorded on a SD Tivo) and
comparing that to HD version that was recorded on the HD Tivo.
> The HD tivo should only be used in normal for HD viewing. No reason to
> "zoom" an HD picture.
Right, in fact I can't zoom an HD picture.
> West wing transmits a 16:9 picture EVEN on a SD station. It will have
> black borders top and bottom THIS IS NOT STANDARD PRACTICE.
Right.
> In other words, West Wing is the exception, not the rule. Watch west wing
> on a HD station, and the black borders disappear on your 16:9 tv.
> I never watch ER, but I think it might be the same deal.
Yes but the HD version looses 2 1/2" off the top and bottom of the frame
compared to the SD version. For example on the SD version I can see the
tops of people heads and space above them. In HD the top of their heads are
cut off.
> In short, I think your concerns are the fault of the station/network...not
> your set or your tivo. Next time you want to compare, do it on a CBS
> HD/SD program....they don't use these flakey pseudo 16:9 formats on their
> SD programming.
I'm just wondering if my set is 'zooming' in on HD content. Would this be
the visible symptom of overscan?
Anyone else seeing this type of cropping on these fake 16:9 shows when
watching them in HD?
/www.imdb.com/title/tt0200276/technical
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