I can't believe...

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"WillStG" <willstg@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1125729383.629891.315810@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Roger W. Norman wrote:
> > Name me a sunny day. I'm not blaming Bush because he's stupid. I'm
saying
> > he's stupid because of his actions. You take that whatever way you
> > determine. But show me a sunny day under the Bush Administration. Read
my
> > blog. Do some research. Then eat my shorts.
>
> Someday Roger, someday perhaps you might let some great tragedy
> pass without giving in to the inevitable, kneejerk impulse to make a
> political football out of it?
>
> Whether it's a Natural Disaster, an Act of God or a Terrorist
> Attack, somehow it all becomes an excersise in finger pointing and
> political self superiority. Give it a rest at least for a while, please
> - it will make our need to unite during a time of crisis a whole lot
> easier for everyone.


Well said. I think the people pointing fingers are completely unaware of
what really happened. Of course they have every opportunity to get elected,
get appointed and do better.






>
> Will Miho
> NY Music and TV/Audio Post Guy
> "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
>

 

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"Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
news:dfdah10f5d@enews1.newsguy.com...
>
>
> nap wrote:
>
> > ahhh.. now we're on to Republicans and Christians.. not being either ..
I'll
> > bet you lie awake at night in fear of them.
>
> Now that you mention it...


lol!

>
>
> Bob
> --
>
> "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
> simpler."
>
> A. Einstein

 

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Animix wrote:
> http/billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html

Is it possible that pressing so many bus drivers into doing
service instead of evacuating and tending to their families
proved less than feasable? How many of those left behind in
the various refuges could have been organized to drive
busses in advance?


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

 

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"Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
news:dfe8590v1g@enews2.newsguy.com
> Animix wrote:
>> http/billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html
>
> Is it possible that pressing so many bus drivers into
> doing service instead of evacuating and tending to their
> families proved less than feasable?

Before the Hurricane they should have let the bus drivers
pick up their own friends and families, first!

 

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"Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote
in message news:431A75C2.89C0E816@hotmail.com

> That's when federal resources are needed to tackle the
> problems.


I don't think you exactly *get* the United States, Graham

Let's take the UK:

Population:

England 50 million
Wales 3 million
Scotland 5 million
N. Ireland 2 million

Do you realize that 4 out of 5 of the UK "states" have
smaller populations than any of the U.S. 5 largest cities?

Do you realize that England is only a tad larger than
California (33 million) or Texas and New York combined (41
million).

Remember, there are another 47 states with over 200 million
other people in them.

In the US our federal government *has* to be more of just a
coordinator of states, because there are so many states and
some of them are so large. The states are expected to be
more self-sufficient.

Many of the things you seem to think that the U.S. federal
government should do, are actually responsibilities of the
U.S. states.

And if you read between the lines in some of these posts,
there's plenty of evidence that states like New York and
California have been stepping up to their responsibilities.

 

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Arny Krueger wrote:

> "Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
> news:dfe8590v1g@enews2.newsguy.com
> > Animix wrote:
> >> http/billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html
> >
> > Is it possible that pressing so many bus drivers into
> > doing service instead of evacuating and tending to their
> > families proved less than feasable?
>
> Before the Hurricane they should have let the bus drivers
> pick up their own friends and families, first!

So - given a realistic time scale - you would expect bus drivers only to
have to evacuate their families from a city that might not even get hit
by the hurricane ? Are you then going to compensate them for financial
losses if it doesn't hit ?

That's horse manure.

Graham

 

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Arny Krueger wrote:

> "Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote
> in message news:431A75C2.89C0E816@hotmail.com
>
> > That's when federal resources are needed to tackle the
> > problems.
>
> I don't think you exactly *get* the United States, Graham
>
> Let's take the UK:
>
> Population:
>
> England 50 million
> Wales 3 million
> Scotland 5 million
> N. Ireland 2 million
>
> Do you realize that 4 out of 5 of the UK "states" have
> smaller populations than any of the U.S. 5 largest cities?
>
> Do you realize that England is only a tad larger than
> California (33 million) or Texas and New York combined (41
> million).
>
> Remember, there are another 47 states with over 200 million
> other people in them.
>
> In the US our federal government *has* to be more of just a
> coordinator of states, because there are so many states and
> some of them are so large. The states are expected to be
> more self-sufficient.
>
> Many of the things you seem to think that the U.S. federal
> government should do, are actually responsibilities of the
> U.S. states.
>
> And if you read between the lines in some of these posts,
> there's plenty of evidence that states like New York and
> California have been stepping up to their responsibilities.

Please explain your point in posting this.

Graham

 

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I was more looking towards finding if anyone was missing that might be
within our group of a group of our group. I didn't really expect people
from New Orleans to respond.

I'll give more information about the other efforts, although I posted just a
minute ago about what I've found out about my own area here just outside of
Washington, DC. Seems that some 400 evacuees will be heading this way in
the next day or two.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http/blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Peter Larsen" <SPAMSHIELD_plarsen@mail.tele.dk> wrote in message
news:43192035.9E334F62@mail.tele.dk...
> "Roger W. Norman" wrote:
>
> > that no one has questions about our compadres in New Orleans ...
>
> I have had many and I was and I stil am deeply concerned about the
> gravety, and took the silence here as an indication of how severe the
> situation is, and still was perplexed by that silence and had expected
> someone to post something. However it was somewhat obvious that people
> with no mains power and flooded and or erased cities would not be likely
> to to post about it presently.
>
> > Roger W. Norman
>
>
> Kind regards
>
> Peter Larsen
>
> --
> *******************************************
> * My site is at: http/www.muyiovatki.dk *
> *******************************************

 

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Not a problem. Well, still might be a problem with my wife. Loss of her
father this year, a couple of my family, a stroke in my family, and more
dependence on all of us has kind of put things over the top. But I've
always found that humanity isn't the level of what you can't do, but what
you can do and no one knows what they can do until they try it. If there is
anything that requires trying harder, this must be it. If not, then we'll
be better prepared for the next time. Whatever doesn't kill you makes you
stronger. Perhaps we've come to the time where the stronger help the weaker
and we all get stronger.

But not if we put up with what I've been coming up with from the agencies
involved. Offering a person a place to live under these circumstances is
harder than trying to find a hen's tooth to extract. I've spent hours with
only regulations being regurgitated to me, and truthfully, if there were
regulations, why wasn't there action? And doesn't anyone have the authority
to say the regulations aren't working and step outside of the box?

Those of us that are Americans should be able to offer our homes to
Americans in need without question. Period. And local regulations
shouldn't stop us from housing more than what the normal circumstance
regulations require.

Time to do the right thing.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http/blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
news:dfdakc1f5d@enews1.newsguy.com...
>
>
> Bob Cain wrote:
> >
> >
> > Roger W. Norman wrote:
> >
> >> If anyone knows of any of our RAP contributors that needs a place to
live
> >> for the next four months or whatever (my true guess is 18 months),
whilst
> >> this nation works towards some solution to this problem, I volunteer my
> >> home, even at the expense of my wife becoming incensed about the
> >> possibility.
> >
> >
> > Not to in any way detract from your kind offer, Roger, but what is
> > needed right now is people everywhere being able and willing to do this
> > without regard to common interest or commonality of any kind.
>
> Oops. You were way ahead of me.
>
>
> Bob
> --
>
> "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
> simpler."
>
> A. Einstein

 

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I have an earlier response below. My desires to actually help families are
going to take one hell of a lot of work.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http/blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
news:dfbldj11l4o@enews1.newsguy.com...
>
>
> Roger W. Norman wrote:
> > Well, I can't believe I've gotten only a couple of responses, mostly
from
> > people that know me, but I'm now going to try to get in touch with
> > authorities to get a family here to offer them shelter.
>
> Right on, Roger. Doing that will make you a giant in my eyes.
>
>
> Bob
> --
>
> "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
> simpler."
>
> A. Einstein

 

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"Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:431AEE04.C0DEE2F9@hotmail.com...
>
>
> Arny Krueger wrote:
>
> > "Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
> > news:dfe8590v1g@enews2.newsguy.com
> > > Animix wrote:
> > >> http/billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html
> > >
> > > Is it possible that pressing so many bus drivers into
> > > doing service instead of evacuating and tending to their
> > > families proved less than feasable?
> >
> > Before the Hurricane they should have let the bus drivers
> > pick up their own friends and families, first!
>
> So - given a realistic time scale - you would expect bus drivers only to
> have to evacuate their families from a city that might not even get hit
> by the hurricane ? Are you then going to compensate them for financial
> losses if it doesn't hit ?
>
> That's horse manure.



I think he was being sarcastic.

The Governor and Mayor certianly would have been worthless on 9/11.

That said..

This is bigger than a lot of us can comprehend. UNless we are there.




>
> Graham
>
>
>
>

 

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> Is it possible that pressing so many bus drivers into doing
> service instead of evacuating and tending to their families
> proved less than feasable? How many of those left behind in
> the various refuges could have been organized to drive
> busses in advance?

A good point to bolster your post is the Jefferson Parish's Emergency
Management Director's situation where he had to be on job whilst his mother
drowned. The police all had family in jeapordy and many chose to evacuate
rather than tend to their duties to a city who's evacuation has been
ordered. And how not? They'd been ordered to evacuate.

The reason to have emergency plans in place is to have outside agencies who
can come in simply because those involved with the day to day have to
include their own in part of the emergency. Imagine how those policemen who
stood on duty for 5 days must feel if they find any of their own dead in the
rubble. A wife, a child, or worse, never to find a wife or a child.

Once a Mayor proclaims an evacuation necessary, the funds immediately become
the province of the Governor. If the Governor proclaims a state of
emergency then they can call in the National Guard troops. If the President
doesn't declare a State of Emergency, federal funds don't come down and the
National Guard is largely able to deploy TO the location, but unable to do
anything WITHIN the location. The devolvement of FEMA into a terrorist
attack only agency simply wasn't prepared to give assistance. The past two
FEMA Directors have done nothing more than manage a splinter in their
child's heel. How the hell could anything get done with no one in charge
nor paying attention but at the local and state levels, and no one to push
anyone to action?

I don't believe anyone can blame either the Mayor of New Orleans or the
Governor of Louisiana because they made numerous calls for federal aid from
Tuesday on. They understood immediately that the breeching of the levee
meant devastation of New Orleans. For years they had been trying to get
Bush to include less than 1/3 the $250 million allocated in this year's
Transportation budget for an Alaskan bridge to a 50 inhabitant island,
ostensibly putting the only lonely ferry captain out of business. Only the
federal government didn't catch the implications of PEOPLE CRYING FOR HELP,
PEOPLE ON ROOFS DYING and the TV PICTURES BROADCAST TO THE WORLD.

Islamic fundamentalists are again dancing and thinking God is on their side
and planning new attacks as we complain.

However, take this either to another forum or another thread. I only asked
for help in housing people in need. Everything else is bullshit until these
people have some type of life to live.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http/blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
news:dfe8590v1g@enews2.newsguy.com...
>
>
> Animix wrote:
> > http/billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html
>
>
>
> Bob
> --
>
> "Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
> simpler."
>
> A. Einstein

 

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No, Arny. That's not the way emergency management works. Those under an
emegency shouldn't have to make the decision to take their own first over
others that might be in as great or greater need, or vice versa. You show
remarkably shallow thinking in your statement for someone that develops test
environments that take all things into consideration.

Again, the idea of emergency management is to escalate the management from
local to county to state to federal, ostensbily because anyone bound to try
to work within the emergency will have personal and emotional connections
that could make them ineffective. I've worked a lot in this in testing
(nuclear shock hardening problems) this type of scenario and it's not
something one can simply lay on the people involved. The police of a
locality are more often required to reside in that locality, which means
they have family there, which means they have an emotional and personal
stake in their own agendas. This promotes the possibility of abandonment of
duties and it's reasonable for them to do so. But this is the way cities
have been thinking for years. In DC, for example, it's often been brought
up to charge police or anyone a surcharge on their income if they live
outside of the city. If they live inside of the city and there's a major
problem, they'll be inclind to consider the fate of their own. Not
necessarily a true factor with police or firemen because of their devotion
to duty, but still, when New Orleans was ordered to evacuate, how can you
say "well, wait a minute, all you policemen and firemen just hold your
positions".

That's the reason for the escalation. Someone else gets to make the call,
and then if policemen and firemen are told to evacuate, they evacuate. To
suggest differently is a level of callousness as I'd not have believed of
you before, Arny. Both happened in this circumstance, but nothing was
forthcoming from the federal government. The chain of command broke down,
the authority went away, and no one is going to do their job over losing
their family unless circumstances are so extreme that they can't help their
families anyway.

Picking up their families first is just the same as busses coming to hotels
and leaving non-hotel registered guests behind in an emergency. No one has
the right to deny another of life, particularly in an emergency. I'll tread
water in hopes that my family gets to safety. I'd like to think I'd do the
same if ANY family I can help actually get to safety. But I'd be there
making certain my family can get to safety before I'd be there for anyone
else, and that's just part of the human existence. What would you do, do
you suppose? And I'm not picking on you, just asking for your usual concise
thoughts.

The entire system fell down because it wasn't supported by the highest
authority in the land, who, by the way, happened to be out giving speeches
about how good of a President he is.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http/blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:y-idncR4afDkQofeRVn-3Q@comcast.com...
> "Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
> news:dfe8590v1g@enews2.newsguy.com
> > Animix wrote:
> >> http/billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html
> >
> > Is it possible that pressing so many bus drivers into
> > doing service instead of evacuating and tending to their
> > families proved less than feasable?
>
> Before the Hurricane they should have let the bus drivers
> pick up their own friends and families, first!
>
>

 

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Well, you succumbed to the diatribes promoted by Jona, of whom at least one
has suggested was you in disguise.

I only offered an alternative to government involvement with the housing of
evacuees. You have a better idea? Express it. I notice you didn't answer
my original post. Perhaps you have no suggestions?

In the words of the Jefferson Parish President, "Nobody is coming to get
you". I don't need more than that to say that Americans need to do
something different than they did after 9/11 and offer money. We need to
HOUSE 100s of thousands of people, not wareHOUSE them.

How Jona or whomever hijacked my original post to become another political
battle is beyond me, but believe me, there is no battle because anyone
supposing that they have a leg to stand on by supporting this President's
reactions to Katrina's devastation is simply irreconcillable in the face of
the facts.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http/blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"WillStG" <willstg@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1125729383.629891.315810@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Roger W. Norman wrote:
> > Name me a sunny day. I'm not blaming Bush because he's stupid. I'm
saying
> > he's stupid because of his actions. You take that whatever way you
> > determine. But show me a sunny day under the Bush Administration. Read
my
> > blog. Do some research. Then eat my shorts.
>
> Someday Roger, someday perhaps you might let some great tragedy
> pass without giving in to the inevitable, kneejerk impulse to make a
> political football out of it?
>
> Whether it's a Natural Disaster, an Act of God or a Terrorist
> Attack, somehow it all becomes an excersise in finger pointing and
> political self superiority. Give it a rest at least for a while, please
> - it will make our need to unite during a time of crisis a whole lot
> easier for everyone.
>
> Will Miho
> NY Music and TV/Audio Post Guy
> "The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits
>

 

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On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 16:36:01 GMT, "Jona Vark" <noemail@all.com> wrote:

Of course they have every opportunity to get elected,
>get appointed and do better.



You're kidding, right?

Look up how much the director of FEMA contributed to Bush. That's the
new land of opportunity at work here.



Kurt Riemann
My real name.

 

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Jona Vark wrote:

> "Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:431AEE04.C0DEE2F9@hotmail.com...
> >
> >
> > Arny Krueger wrote:
> >
> > > "Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
> > > news:dfe8590v1g@enews2.newsguy.com
> > > > Animix wrote:
> > > >> http/billhobbs.com/hobbsonline/007188.html
> > > >
> > > > Is it possible that pressing so many bus drivers into
> > > > doing service instead of evacuating and tending to their
> > > > families proved less than feasable?
> > >
> > > Before the Hurricane they should have let the bus drivers
> > > pick up their own friends and families, first!
> >
> > So - given a realistic time scale - you would expect bus drivers only to
> > have to evacuate their families from a city that might not even get hit
> > by the hurricane ? Are you then going to compensate them for financial
> > losses if it doesn't hit ?
> >
> > That's horse manure.
>
> I think he was being sarcastic.

Somewhat scarily, I believe Arny was actually being *serious* !

> The Governor and Mayor certianly would have been worthless on 9/11.

How can you conclude that ? Bush was still reading an upside-down book and
dragging his knuckles as the WTC was being destroyed !


> That said..
>
> This is bigger than a lot of us can comprehend. UNless we are there.

Watching live broadcasts on www.wwltv.com taught me a lot about what's going
on.

Graham

 

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Roger W. Norman wrote:


> I believe you are Jona,
> sliding in to have a conversation with yourself when you could be doing



Bingo.

 

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Roger W. Norman <Roger@SirMusicStudio.com> wrote:
>
>CBC means Complete Blood Count to anyone with a normal education.

Sheesh, and I thought it was Canadian radio! I like that big band station
on 560 KC... comes in very well after dark here.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

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OK, so it COULD mean a couple of other things. But I've never heard CBC
used in terms of the Black Caucus, and you know that I black members of my
family, including my wife. However, I've never heard of CBC meaning the
Black Caucus and I've been a part of this family for 18 years now.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio
http/blogs.salon.com/0004478/

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:dffshb$4s8$1@panix2.panix.com...
> Roger W. Norman <Roger@SirMusicStudio.com> wrote:
> >
> >CBC means Complete Blood Count to anyone with a normal education.
>
> Sheesh, and I thought it was Canadian radio! I like that big band station
> on 560 KC... comes in very well after dark here.
> --scott
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

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"Roger W. Norman" <Roger@SirMusicStudio.com> wrote in
message news:QKidnZM-DfvKzobeRVn-rg@rcn.net

> No, Arny. That's not the way emergency management works.

Agreed. I'm not talking about emergency *management* but
instead emergency execution.

> Those under an emegency shouldn't have to make the
> decision to take their own first over others that might
> be in as great or greater need, or vice versa.

Tell that to Graham. It's his issue. He said that it was
illogical to ask the New Orleans bus drivers to drive New
Orleans citizens out of town.

I probably should have pointed out that half of the NOPD
stayed at their posts, therefore it might have been
reasonable to expect half of the bus drivers to do their
jobs.