Integrated Graphics Card Questions/Issues with gaming.

Daniel Hickok

Estimable
Sep 20, 2014
5
0
4,510
0
Before I post anything I will layout the new laptop specs I have then address the issue:


System Model: HP Pavilion 17 Notebook PC
Processor: AMD A10-5750M APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics, 2500 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)
Graphics Chipset: AMD Radeon HD 8650G
Memory Size: 768 MB
Memory Type: DDR3
Core Clock in MHz: 720 MHz
Memory Clock in MHz: 800 MHz
Total Memory Bandwidth in GByte/s: 12.8 GByte/s
Installed Ram: 8.00 GB

Alright, hopefully this is the right place to get some help, but this is a new laptop roughly 5 days ago and I am having really bad FPS issues in games like CS:GO & LoL. The bare minimum can be played and that is with average FPS.

My buddy told me that the reason why I am having issues running games like CS:GO & LoL is because the graphics is a intergrated graphics card and only a portion of the memory 1-5% is really used for gaming.

I read multiple reviews on this prior buying it and people said they could play games like dota 2, BF3, LoL, and other games that are to the naked eye graphics demanding.

Can someone please verify if this? Although my buddy may seem correct, the reviews say otherwise about this laptop. If I can fix this to perform at high levels what can I do? I have updated the drives, removed a lot of Windows 8.1 bloatware & aero themes.

Needless to say, if I can't fix it I will return it and patiently wait for a computer by ordering online instead of going to Walmart :(

http://www.game-debate.com/hardware/?gid=1498&graphics=Radeon%20HD%208650G



 

jaguarskx

Champion
Moderator
I am guessing you only have 1 stick of 4GB RAM installed in the laptop. This results in the RAM only operating at half speed and can be the cause of low performance since the integrated graphics core relies on the system RAM. Installing a 2nd stick of 4GB RAM should help improve performance.

The link below has some benchmarks for the Radeon HD 8650g. CS:GO is benchmarked so hopefully after installing the RAM you will get similar results. The benchmark for 1920x1080 ultra settings seems very odd because the FPS benchmark is higher than 1366x768 high settings and the laptop only has 4GB of RAM (click the FPS number to see laptop details).

http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-Radeon-HD-8650G.87916.0.html
 

Daniel Hickok

Estimable
Sep 20, 2014
5
0
4,510
0



I left this out my apologies, but I have 8gigs of ram. :/
 

Daniel Hickok

Estimable
Sep 20, 2014
5
0
4,510
0


Although this may work, this doesn't answer my question. Is it being intergrated the problem? Because if it is there really isn't much I can do.

Another thing my buddy mentioned was that since it is factory made and since it is a notebook, modifying the ram or graphics card is pretty much impossible. I can't just add another graphics card or modify the RAM used for crap like google chrome and other programs to be geared for gaming.

If there is a way you guys know of to modify the graphics card to dedicate its power towards gaming more so then programs I am all ears.
 

jaguarskx

Champion
Moderator


Is that 1 stick of 8GB RAM? Or is that 2 sticks of 4GB RAM that totals to 8GB? The difference is important because there needs to be two sticks of RAM for them to operate at full speed.

According to the link I provided the average FPS for CS:GO at 1366x768 with medium settings is 42.2 FPS. You should get something similar to that if you have 2 sticks of RAM.
 

Daniel Hickok

Estimable
Sep 20, 2014
5
0
4,510
0



On lowest settings I am getting that FPS. Anything higher is unplayable.

Needless to say I am assuming the graphics card and processor isn't ideal for gaming?

Or is there a way to modify it so that I can change the amount of power going towards other apps and make it go towards gaming?

Is my friend right about the graphics card being integrated provided it is a decent graphics card?

Even then, watch this video. This guy is playing BF3 and has superb FPS which makes zero sense to me if games like CS:GO and LoL are really struggling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmLvcgs2Fok
 

jaguarskx

Champion
Moderator
So you can get about 42 FPS at 1366x768 with low settings, but with medium settings it is unplayable?

Again, do you know if you have one or two sticks of RAM that? You can google for a program called Speccy that can provide that info.

The Radeon HD 8650g was the most powerful integrated iGPU until AMD released a new generation of APUs this year. The performance is good for an integrated GPU, but is pretty weak compared to most dedicated graphic cards / chips.
 

Daniel Hickok

Estimable
Sep 20, 2014
5
0
4,510
0



My resolution is 1600x900 and for the RAM portion on Speccy this is what is said:

Memory
Type: DDR3
Size: 7368 MBytes
Channels #: Single
DRAM Frequency: 801.0 MHz
CAS# Latency (CL): 11 clocks
RAS# to CAS# Delay (tRCD): 11 clocks
RAS# Precharge (tRP): 12 clocks
Cycle Time (tRAS): 28 clocks
Bank Cycle Time (tRC): 39 clocks
Physical Memory
Memory Usage: 38 %
Total Physical: 7.19 GB
Available Physical: 4.46 GB
Total Virtual: 9.01 GB
Available Virtual: 5.56 GB
SPD
Number Of SPD Modules : 0

So I am assuming one.

Since it is a integrated graphics card, is there anyway to modify the amount of memory used for running the system?

For example, can I modify make more memory go towards the gaming and less towards background programs?

Something tells me I good chunk of the memory used on my graphics card is used for non-essential stuff like bloatware I have yet to remove, not sure what do you think?

Also, if I provide you the proper specs to determine this could I possible add a dedicated graphics card?

My buddy told me more than likely it won't since modern day laptops are not built with an additional PCI bus but I can't tell. Thanks again for working through this. Ultimately you will be the judge for whether I get a new laptop.
 

jaguarskx

Champion
Moderator
Yes, you only have 1 stick of RAM; because it states "Channels #: Single". That is the reason why your graphics performance is not very good.

The is a bit of info missing from the top though. There should be a section before the data you provide which should have the following:

Total memory slots: 2
Used memory slots: 1
Free memory slots: 1

If it states that, then you will be able to install another stick of RAM that will boost performance. There are a few different 17" Pavilion laptop out there. What is the exact model #?

Assuming you have a free RAM slot available, you can just install a 4GB stick of RAM an that will allow your RAM to run in dual channel mode. That should give you a performance boost. Below is a link to a review of the A10-5750m and a quote from the bottom of the 1st page of the review:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7106/amds-a105750m-review-part-1-the-apu-and-radeon-hd-8650g-performance

Without getting into the details, relevant to testing is that the GX60 actually ships with only one DIMM channel populated. While the CPU isn't heavily affected by operating in single-channel mode, the IGP takes a nearly 50% hit to performance virtually across the board. It also doesn't ship with any solid state storage, so PCMark7 is going to be heavily impacted by the mechanical hard disk. In the second part of this review, when I tackle the GX60 specifically, you'll be able to get a better idea of what the loss of that second DIMM means.
You can purchase the following 4GB stick of RAM for $35 which should work with your laptop.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148813

 

hang-the-9

Titan
Moderator


The video you linked is playing at 1024x800 which is a lot less pixels to push than 1600x900 and even so it was running at 30fps which is OK, but not super smooth for a FPS. Plus it was in a practice round without other players or NPCs to render.

Your video card combination is about 30% under what a lower end real gaming video card should be at.

I don't think running RAM in dual channel will make that much difference, you are better off selling the system and getting a real gaming laptop if that is what you got it to do. You are likely to see at most a 10% increase in frame rates on dual channel RAM, and I would guess that 5-6% is more likely.

If you are lucky you got the system at a place that would allow you to exchange the laptop for full price withing a certain time. Either pick out a system from there with a real video card or take the money and go shop online. Expect to pay about $750 for a starter gaming laptop with $1,000-$1,200 being the true point to spend on a gaming laptop. $1,500 will get you one that can play almost any game at high settings.
 

jaguarskx

Champion
Moderator


There have been benchmarks showing a pretty decent performance increase using DDR3 2133 RAM vs DDR3 1600 RAM with AMD integrated graphic cores. So allowing the RAM to run at 1600MHz (dual channel) with two sticks of RAM instead of running at 800MHz (single channel) with only one stick of RAM should provide a good performance increase.
 

Bolin

Estimable
Sep 8, 2014
312
0
5,010
43




I guess this only happens with integrated GPUs because they don't have their own gddr3 or gddr5 memory and they have to use the system's memory, therefore, although RAM speed is not very important in general usage as it's already fast enough to even notice a difference, it will help the GPU to not throttle itself.
 

popatim

Splendid
Moderator
BTW- in the video you linked he's using a dual GPU setup "8650G+5750M"
AND
at 23 seconds you can see he is running at 1024x600 with basically everything off & low settings which he changes it to medium but only manages 30 frame when he's not shootin. he is also in target mode so no one else is moving or shooting back so this is basically the BEST he's going to get.

You dont have dual graphics and wont even see this speed.

For what it is its not bad but doesn't compare to a dedicated GPU.
 

hang-the-9

Titan
Moderator


A single stick of ram will still run at 1600 speed, the only thing dual or tripple channel RAM does is increase the amount of lanes the RAM can use. It's basically like a single vs a dual lane highway. Two lanes don't allow cars to drive at 120mph vs one lane, they just allow two cars at 60mph to run side by side.

I am actually about to setup an A8 CPU in the next few days, I'll run some tests on it with one and two sticks of RAM to see what the difference would be. I'd be willing to bet it's at most 10%.
 
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