Lossless audio comression

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1116512082k@trad...
>
> In article <kSXie.7149$796.6862@attbi_s21> rhunt22@hotmail.com writes:
>
>> I think he's saying he doesn't need it in an immediately playable
>> format.
>
> If it's not in an immediately playable format, how likely is it that
> it will be in a playable format some time in the future?


Ohfercrissake Mike, he's saying he wants to compress audio files for
storage the same way you'd zip a folder full of documents. One does
this to save disk space, reducing the number of drives one must keep on
hand. You simply re-expand the data when you need it.

Why is this such an issue for you?

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <ZQgje.6088$tt5.2942@edtnps90>,
Lorin David Schultz <Lorin@DAMNSPAM!v5v.ca> wrote:
>"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
>news:znr1116512082k@trad...
>>
>> In article <kSXie.7149$796.6862@attbi_s21> rhunt22@hotmail.com writes:
>>
>>> I think he's saying he doesn't need it in an immediately playable
>>> format.
>>
>> If it's not in an immediately playable format, how likely is it that
>> it will be in a playable format some time in the future?
>
>Ohfercrissake Mike, he's saying he wants to compress audio files for
>storage the same way you'd zip a folder full of documents. One does
>this to save disk space, reducing the number of drives one must keep on
>hand. You simply re-expand the data when you need it.
>
>Why is this such an issue for you?

It's an issue for him because he's always getting material in weird
formats.

And he expect that, twenty years down the road when the PC architecture
is dead and gone, that someone will drop a CD-R with these compressed files
on his desk or my desk and expect us to read them. Just like they are
currently dropping 3-track tapes and 16" acetates on our desks today.

What will we do then? That's a question that needs to be asked.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Henry Padilla" <padillah@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:Gh0je.2719

> I want to store the music as clean as I can then I can translate it into
> whatever format I feel is good for listening later.
> That's what I meant by "I don't need to play the music" I meant "I don't
> need to play it NOW".

Your old CDs will likely last longer than any hard drive.

geoff

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <428D41F1.B2B4FDC3@hotmail.com> rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com writes:

> Hmmmm. Approx 1.8 terabytes of data uncompressed.

Surprisingly affordable at today's disk prices.

> How many months free do you have to do this ?

This isn't.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <ZQgje.6088$tt5.2942@edtnps90> Lorin@DAMNSPAM!v5v.ca writes:

> Ohfercrissake Mike, he's saying he wants to compress audio files for
> storage the same way you'd zip a folder full of documents. One does
> this to save disk space, reducing the number of drives one must keep on
> hand.

I don't do that. I store my "valuables" in uncompressed format on
floppy disks or CDs. It's practical for the size documents that I
think I might want to access some time in the future. Back when I
still used 360K floppy disks, I used ARC and ZIP to save disk space,
but that's no longer necessary. Since those would reduce a text or
word processor file to about 10 or 15% of its original size, the
saving was worth while. A reduction of only 50% at today's hard disk
prices is hardly worth the risk added by having another layer between
the data stored and the data in usable format.

> Why is this such an issue for you?

Because a few years back, I wanted to use a file I had downloaded that
was in some compressed format I hadn't heard of before (or since) and
had to hunt for the utility to uncompress it. Ten years later, I
suspect it would be much more difficult to find that utility, and
twenty years later it might be difficult to find a computer on which
to run the utility (and for that matter, that will accommodate the
storage media) to uncompress the file.

I can see someone wanting to put his entire CD collection on a disk
for convenience of playing at a given location, but not as a long term
archive. He has CDs. He can buy replacements if they fail. He can play
those CDs on his computer, on a boom box at the beach, in the living
room, in the car, lend it to a friend . . . If it's on a hard disk, he
has to go to the computer and make a CD in order to do anything but
listen to it on that computer.

It's a pain in the butt, and it's not a very good archive media
anyway. That's why I discourage it for that purpose.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Geoff Wood" <geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote in message
news:428d0169$1@clear.net.nz...
>
> "Henry Padilla" <padillah@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:Gh0je.2719
>
>> I want to store the music as clean as I can then I can translate it into
>> whatever format I feel is good for listening later.
>> That's what I meant by "I don't need to play the music" I meant "I don't
>> need to play it NOW".
>
> Your old CDs will likely last longer than any hard drive.
>
> geoff

I don't see how that's possible since they are already NOT lasting longer.

I've lost three to pitting already and I'm getting nervous.
Tom P.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Henry Padilla" <padillah@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ylkje.5602$tX5.4317@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Geoff Wood" <geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:428d0169$1@clear.net.nz...
> >
> > "Henry Padilla" <padillah@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Gh0je.2719
> >
> >> I want to store the music as clean as I can then I can
translate it into
> >> whatever format I feel is good for listening later.
> >> That's what I meant by "I don't need to play the music"
I meant "I don't
> >> need to play it NOW".
> >
> > Your old CDs will likely last longer than any hard
drive.

Agreed. When I bought my first CDs, I believe I was also
using an IBM PC with an internal Seagate 20 MB (not GB!)
full-height hard drive and Western Digital ISA hard drive
controller. Those CDs are still in my library and I've
listened to some of them recently. The PC, the hard drive
and the controller didn't even make it into the 1990s, let
alone the new millenium.

My previous generation hard drives (mostly 8-16 GB) date
back to about 2001-2002, and AFAIK they are still
operational. However, hard drives go bad on the shelf, so
their status is not assured. Needless to say I have a
zillion CDs and CDRs that date back that far or further.
AFAIK they all play just as brilliantly as they did the day
I obtained them with few exceptions.

I have found an occasional burned CD-R from 5-8 years back
that won't load, let alone play. They appear to be
undamaged.

> I don't see how that's possible since they are already NOT
lasting longer.

Than the hard drive you were using on the day you bought the
CDs?

> I've lost three to pitting already and I'm getting
nervous.

Sorry to hear. Moisture problems?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:428D41F1.B2B4FDC3@hotmail.com...
> Mike Rivers wrote:
>
>> In article <Gh0je.2719$VS6.1841@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com>
>> padillah@hotmail.com writes:
>>
>> > The point is I have over 1100 CD's worth of music and my brother has
>> > over
>> > 2000. Some of them are getting old and I've lost two or three to
>> > pitting
>> > already. It's making me nervous.
>> >
>> > I want to store the music as clean as I can then I can translate it
>> > into
>> > whatever format I feel is good for listening later.
>> > That's what I meant by "I don't need to play the music" I meant "I
>> > don't
>> > need to play it NOW".
>>
>> That's a lot of transferring, both to an intermediate medium and to
>> the medium you'll eventually use for playback. Perhaps you should just
>> not get so nervous. Three bad disks out of 3200 is unfortunate, but
>> not a heartbreaker. Put out a call for replacements.
>>
>> With hard disks as cheap as they are today, if you really want to go
>> through with this project (and you realize that if you don't do it
>> completely, you haven't done it) I'd recommend that you bag the
>> compression and "rip" the CDs as 16-bit WAV files. It will save you
>> considerable time and will at worst double the amount of disk space
>> you'll need.
>>
>> In order to really save space, you'll need to use some heavy duty
>> lossy compression, but take the hit in sound quality. Frankly,
>> though, I don't think you realize the magnitude of the task of
>> transferring 3000 CDs on alternate media, and then actually finding
>> what you're looking for once they're transferred.
>
> Hmmmm. Approx 1.8 terabytes of data uncompressed.
>
> That should be fun !
>
> How many months free do you have to do this ?
>
> Graham

Tell me about it. That's 9-250 gig drives (I got 2.1Tb). That's $1350 in
drives alone.

And I know the organization is going to be a small nightmare but I know it's
better than finding them now - I just look and look and look until I find it
or give up.

What the heck am I going to do?

Tom P.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2005-05-18, Henry Padilla <padillah@hotmail.com> wrote:

> What are some lossless audio compressions?
>
> I don't need to play the music but I do need to store it on hard
> drive.
>
> So far I've only really heard of mp3, ATRAC and others that are lossy
> (very lossy).

I usually use FLAC.

I used Monkey's Audio once because it compressed slightly better
and I was able to fill a CD-ROM but FLAC has better Unix
support. It has a man page, a sane command line syntax and is
widely supported by Unix audio apps.

--
André Majorel <URL:http/www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
(Counterfeit: acigic@singable.com uhutowid@affluence.org)
What worries me is not the violence of the few, but the
indifference of the many. -- M. L. King

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

> What the heck am I going to do?
>

All of the CDs I bought in 1985 are just fine, in fact I was playing one of
them in my new car deck earlier this week. I have a few floppies that are a
bit newer, and they still work, surprisingly. But I don't have any hard
drives from 1993 that are any good. I have a couple older ST-506/ESDI
drives, but I'm pretty sure I don't have a computer that will accept their
drive controller.

-John O

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

On 2005-05-20, Henry Padilla <padillah@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:428D41F1.B2B4FDC3@hotmail.com...

>> Hmmmm. Approx 1.8 terabytes of data uncompressed.
>>
>> That should be fun !
>>
>> How many months free do you have to do this ?
>>
>> Graham
>
> Tell me about it. That's 9-250 gig drives (I got 2.1Tb). That's
> $1350 in drives alone.
>
> And I know the organization is going to be a small nightmare but I
> know it's better than finding them now - I just look and look and look
> until I find it or give up.
>
> What the heck am I going to do?

/$somepath/$artist1/$title1/*.flac
/$somepath/$artist1/$title2/*.flac

That should scale easily to 3000 CDs. It should in fact be
quicker than physical CDs. Works for me.

The cost of storage is small compared to the cost of the CDs,
and it's getting cheaper all the time. Right now, disk space
costs about 0.44 EUR/GB. Assuming an average compressed size of
320 MB per CD (that's what FLAC achieves on mine), that's 0.14
EUR per CD.

But you might not want to keep 5 hard disks spinning 24/7.

--
André Majorel <URL:http/www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
(Counterfeit: dubyj@solvent.com gixutyp@popularsoft.biz)
What worries me is not the violence of the few, but the
indifference of the many. -- M. L. King

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <Qskje.5605$tX5.122@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com> padillah@hotmail.com writes:

> And I know the organization is going to be a small nightmare but I know it's
> better than finding them now - I just look and look and look until I find it
> or give up.
>
> What the heck am I going to do?

The same thing that everyone else does. Build some shelves and put
your CDs on them. Put them in alphabetical order by artist. Keep them
out of the direct sun. Don't leave them in the car. They'll last 100
years, so they tell me.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Henry Padilla" <padillah@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ylkje.5602$tX5.4317@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com...
>
> "Geoff Wood" <geoff@nospam-paf.co.nz> wrote in message
> news:428d0169$1@clear.net.nz...
>>
>> "Henry Padilla" <padillah@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:Gh0je.2719
>>
>>> I want to store the music as clean as I can then I can translate it into
>>> whatever format I feel is good for listening later.
>>> That's what I meant by "I don't need to play the music" I meant "I
>>> don't need to play it NOW".
>>
>> Your old CDs will likely last longer than any hard drive.
>>
>> geoff
>
> I don't see how that's possible since they are already NOT lasting longer.
>
> I've lost three to pitting already and I'm getting nervous.


What are you doing to them ?

I had over 500 CDs for up 20 years , about 200 of which lived in the noxious
atmosphere of Mexico City for 3 years, and in all that time I've only ever
had one die, due to the dreaded CD-fungas.

geoff

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Henry Padilla" <padillah@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:Qskje.5605
>
> What the heck am I going to do?

Buy a new copy of each CD that dies. And do CD-Audio and CD-ROM backups of
those that are irreplacable.

geoff

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Logan Shaw" <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
>
> On the other hand, precisely because there is much less high-frequency
> information, it might be a much easier task for a lossless encoder to
> achieve much better compression ratios than it would on normal music.

If "might" is good enough for you.

geoff

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Henry Padilla <padillah@hotmail.com> wrote:

> What are some lossless audio compressions?

On the Macintosh, there's "Apple Lossless", based on the MPEG-4
standard.

It may be available from within iTunes for Windows as well.

--
Jazzman DX7II - 01/W - S3000XL - Ion

" Without geometry, life is pointless "

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Arny Krueger <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote:

> When I bought my first CDs, I believe I was also
> using an IBM PC with an internal Seagate 20 MB (not GB!)
> full-height hard drive and Western Digital ISA hard drive
> controller. Those CDs are still in my library and I've
> listened to some of them recently. The PC, the hard drive
> and the controller didn't even make it into the 1990s

Hard disks were much more fragile and less reliable back then, though.

With CDs it's the opposite: today's CDs are dirt cheap, but also less
well-built and reliable than the CDs made more than, say, 10 years ago.


That said, my Apple 20MB HD from 1985 is still up and running, so who
knows

--
Jazzman DX7II - 01/W - S3000XL - Ion

" Without geometry, life is pointless "

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote:
>
> [...] A reduction of only 50% at today's hard disk
> prices is hardly worth the risk added by having another layer between
> the data stored and the data in usable format.
[...]
> a few years back, I wanted to use a file I had downloaded
> that was in some compressed format I hadn't heard of before (or
> since) and had to hunt for the utility to uncompress it. Ten years
> later, I suspect it would be much more difficult to find that
> utility, and twenty years later it might be difficult to find a
> computer on which to run the utility (and for that matter, that will
> accommodate the storage media) to uncompress the file.



Oh. Well why didn't you say so? <g>

Lorin

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Ben Bradley wrote:

> On Thu, 19 May 2005 20:30:36 GMT, "John O"
> <johno@!noSPAM!heathkit.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > A digital packrat ?
> >> >
> >> > WOM - write-only memory.
> >>
> >> Decades ago one of the major US semi manufacturers dreamt up a spoof WOM
> >IC data sheet !
> >>
> >That sheet made it into their data books, or so the legend goes.
> >
> >http/www.ganssle.com/misc/wom.html
>
> I've seen that link a few times in recent years, but there must
> have been a similar data sheet if not another page of that one, as I
> distinctly remember a graph not on either of those pages, called the
> "Female Follower Response" that showed a curve that, while perhaps not
> mathematically possible, showed a recognizable outline. I saw this
> circa 1978-1980. Does anyone know of any other such data sheets? That
> one is from Signetics, the one I'm thinking of may have been from
> National Semiconductor.

Talking of spoof data sheets, anyone seen EV's SP13.5TRBXWK ( IIRC ) data sheet
?

I have a copy in my EV folder ( if I can find it ).

Graham

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Pooh Bear" wrote ...
> Talking of spoof data sheets, anyone seen EV's SP13.5TRBXWK ( IIRC )
> data sheet

http/steamer.mindfart.com/