Lossless audio comression

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What are some lossless audio compressions?

I don't need to play the music but I do need to store it on hard drive.

So far I've only really heard of mp3, ATRAC and others that are lossy (very
lossy).

Thanks for the help.

Tom P.
 
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Huh?

Sure there are. I'm hardly knowledgeable about them, but even I've
heard of FLAC, which stands for "Free Lossless Audio Compression". Do a
Google search and you'll find out more. From the very little I've read
I learned that you can achieve compression ratios of about 2:1 without
any loss.

Someone else please chime in with more up-to-date and in-depth
comments, because I'm sure there are others...

Thanks,

Dean

Phil Allison wrote:
> "Henry Padilla"
>
> > What are some lossless audio compressions?
>
>
> ** No such animal.
>
>
>
>
>
> ............ Phil
 
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"Henry Padilla" <padillah@hotmail.com> writes:

> What are some lossless audio compressions?

MLP - Meridian Lossless Packing.
--
Randy Yates
Sony Ericsson Mobile Communications
Research Triangle Park, NC, USA
randy.yates@sonyericsson.com, 919-472-1124
 
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You can also try out Monkey Audio Lossless compression. I've used it
before. It works well, and you can even play the compressed file as if
it were uncompressed. There is a plugin for winamp I believe. Anyhow,
The compression is about the same as FLAC (i.e. 2:1). I don't know
much abuot FLAC, but I've used Monkey Audio and I think the ability to
play the compressed files is a big bonus.

www.monkeysaudio.com
 
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Henry Padilla wrote:
> What are some lossless audio compressions?
>
> I don't need to play the music but I do need to store it on hard drive.
>
> So far I've only really heard of mp3, ATRAC and others that are lossy (very
> lossy).
>
> Thanks for the help.
>
> Tom P.
>
>

FLAC is good enough for Doug Oade, it's good enough for me.

Jonny Durango
 
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drichard wrote:
> Sure there are. I'm hardly knowledgeable about them, but even I've
> heard of FLAC, which stands for "Free Lossless Audio Compression".

Quite right. I've used it too. The actual amount of compression cannot
be guaranteed but it does average about 50% on 16/44.1 stereo WAV files.

There may be others but it's unlikely that they'll be anything but
marginally better and as you say the FLAC spec is open and the software
is free so not much point in looking much further.

I use it occasionally for achiving stuff. I can easily get the audio
contents of a CD plus related documentation all on to one CDR if the
audio is FLAC compressed.

Conventional compression programs like ZIP are very bad at compressing
audio data because they are optimized for the wrong kinds of redundancy.

Anahata
 
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In article <02Hie.3849$tX5.593@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com> padillah@hotmail.com writes:

> I don't need to play the music but I do need to store it on hard drive.

What's the point, then? If you're not going to play it, why store it?


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
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"Henry Padilla"

> What are some lossless audio compressions?


** No such animal.





............. Phil
 
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"Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
news:3f0tj3F5es9sU1@individual.net...

> "Henry Padilla" wrote

> > What are some lossless audio compressions?

These would be systems that significantly decrease
long-term data storage requirements, while reproducing a
bit-perfect form of the original signal.

> ** No such animal.

...."no such animal" as:

AudioZip
FLAC
MLP
Monkey
LPAC
Shorten
MUSICompress/WaveZIP
WaveArc
Pegasus SPS (ELS-Ultra)
RKAU
Sonarc
WavPack...
 
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"Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in news:3f0tj3F5es9sU1
@individual.net:

>
> "Henry Padilla"
>
>> What are some lossless audio compressions?
>
>
> ** No such animal.
>
>
>
>
>
> ............ Phil
>
>
>


Steinberg's Wavelab has a proprietary lossless compression(OSQ).
 
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"Arny Krueger"
> "Phil Allison"
>> "Henry Padilla" wrote
>
>> > What are some lossless audio compressions?
>
> These would be systems that significantly decrease
> long-term data storage requirements, while reproducing a
> bit-perfect form of the original signal.
>
>> ** No such animal.
>
> ..."no such animal" as:
>
> AudioZip
> FLAC
> MLP
> Monkey
> LPAC
> Shorten
> MUSICompress/WaveZIP
> WaveArc
> Pegasus SPS (ELS-Ultra)
> RKAU
> Sonarc
> WavPack...
>


** What does listing names prove ??

Just what a jerk-off Arny is again ??




............. Phil
 
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Mike Rivers wrote:

> In article <02Hie.3849$tX5.593@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com> padillah@hotmail.com writes:
>
> > I don't need to play the music but I do need to store it on hard drive.
>
> What's the point, then? If you're not going to play it, why store it?

A digital packrat ?

Graham
 
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"Pooh Bear" <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:428C36B4.D0841DE5@hotmail.com...
>
> Mike Rivers wrote:
>
>> In article <02Hie.3849$tX5.593@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>
>> padillah@hotmail.com writes:
>>
>> > I don't need to play the music but I do need to store it on hard drive.
>>
>> What's the point, then? If you're not going to play it, why store it?
>
> A digital packrat ?
>
> Graham
>

I think he's saying he doesn't need it in an immediately playable format.
 
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Mike Rivers wrote:
> In article <02Hie.3849$tX5.593@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com> padillah@hotmail.com writes:
>
>
>>I don't need to play the music but I do need to store it on hard drive.
>
>
> What's the point, then? If you're not going to play it, why store it?

I took "I don't need to play it" to mean that it would be OK if the
format required him to uncompress before playing, i.e. if it did
not support streaming straight from the file directly (through a
plug-in for some audio program).

- Logan
 
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Anahata wrote:
> drichard wrote:
>
>> Sure there are. I'm hardly knowledgeable about them, but even I've
>> heard of FLAC, which stands for "Free Lossless Audio Compression".

> Quite right. I've used it too. The actual amount of compression cannot
> be guaranteed but it does average about 50% on 16/44.1 stereo WAV files.

As it turns out, one of the properties of any kind of lossless compression
(not just audio) is that the ratio can never be guaranteed for all
possible inputs.

If it could be guaranteed, then you could re-run the compression
algorithm on its output over and over again until you got any file
down as small as you wanted it. Getting a bigger hard disk would
never be necessary again, as you could always just compress the
files you have further and further if you were running low on space.
Also, there would be no limit to the amount of audio you could fit
on a CD-R, for instance.

On the other hand, if you have lossy compression, then you can always
design your algorithm to get a guaranteed ratio. If the ratio starts
getting too bad, just sacrifice quality. (At the very worst, all you
have to do is start chopping down the sample rate, although there are
probably better ways.)

Anyway, the key with lossless algorithms is to invent an algorithm
that is likely to get a good ratio with the type of inputs people
tend to throw at it. Then, in a way, you get around the mathematical
property that a lossless compression algorithm must actually sometimes
expand instead of compress.

- Logan
 
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StraightEight wrote:
> According to the comparison table at the monkey audio site, they can
> have the best compression ration. Anyone confirm this?
>
> http://www.monkeysaudio.com/comparison_compression.html

I've seen tabulated results for FLAC for several samples of different
types of music and they vary quite a lot. I suspect that different
compression algorithms do best on different samples, so monkey audio may
have been carefully selective in their listing - but as you can see
there's very little difference between any of them (except zip which is
looking for all the wrong kinds of redundancy in the data and hence
fails miserably)

> Quite intrigued by this as I often record bass lines for a friend and
> hate sending huge wav files over a 25k uplink!

Unless it's for absolutely no-compromise top quality commercial
recording, you'd do better with a high bit rate MP3 or Ogg Vorbis.
Especially for bass lines - most of the compromise in quality for
perceptual encoders is at the high end of the spectrum where the data
rates are necessarily higher; also a single line instrument has a
spectrum that's very easy to encode accurately. Try it with various ogg
quality settings or mp3 bit rates. My guess is you'll get much smaller
files that won't sound any different.

Anahata
 
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In article <kSXie.7149$796.6862@attbi_s21> rhunt22@hotmail.com writes:

> I think he's saying he doesn't need it in an immediately playable format.

If it's not in an immediately playable format, how likely is it that
it will be in a playable format some time in the future?



--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo
 
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"Mike Rivers" <mrivers@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:znr1116429562k@trad...
>
> In article <02Hie.3849$tX5.593@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com>
> padillah@hotmail.com writes:
>
>> I don't need to play the music but I do need to store it on hard drive.
>
> What's the point, then? If you're not going to play it, why store it?

The point is I have over 1100 CD's worth of music and my brother has over
2000. Some of them are getting old and I've lost two or three to pitting
already. It's making me nervous.

I want to store the music as clean as I can then I can translate it into
whatever format I feel is good for listening later.
That's what I meant by "I don't need to play the music" I meant "I don't
need to play it NOW".

Tom P.
 
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"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:NeKdnWUzHf5Y-xbfRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
>
> "Phil Allison" <philallison@tpg.com.au> wrote in message
> news:3f0tj3F5es9sU1@individual.net...
>
>> "Henry Padilla" wrote
>
>> > What are some lossless audio compressions?
>
> These would be systems that significantly decrease
> long-term data storage requirements, while reproducing a
> bit-perfect form of the original signal.
>
>> ** No such animal.
>
> ..."no such animal" as:
>
> AudioZip
> FLAC
> MLP
> Monkey
> LPAC
> Shorten
> MUSICompress/WaveZIP
> WaveArc
> Pegasus SPS (ELS-Ultra)
> RKAU
> Sonarc
> WavPack...

Thanks everybody, I'll give these a try and report back some findings (for
those that care).

Tom P.
 
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