monitor/mastering speakers

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Here's the situation:

- Getting good results with live recordings to two tracks.
- Tweaking/mastering them a bit with Isotope or Waves
- Looking for suggestions for small nearfields with decent accuracy and
representation

Currently I'm lugging my gear over to a friend's AV room and camping out for
a couple days to master on his JBL K2 S5800s and his Levinson amp, but this
is not really a feasible solution with 20+ projects needing attention.

Any recommendations on a pair of ok working speakers that can give me decent
accuracy for simple monitoring/mastering without discussions about room
environments and US$20K+ speakers. There is no customizable room environment
(it's my back office at a club) and the speakers will need to be on my desk
in front of me, so they will be mid/small and probably self powered.

What have you used which gives you decent enough bass and definition to
monitor EQ and compression somewhat accurately? I've been lucky enough to
have worked with guys like Don Murray, Bill Schnee, Ted Jensen, Bernie
Grundman, etc to have developed decent working ears, so I know it's
impossible to replicate anything similar to their product, but I do need to
find a pair of small work horse speakers that can at least let me hear the
changes being made, can reference over to both home and hi-end, and won't
set me back to much cash, while I try to get the best results I can with
what I have to work with. : )

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

offpeak808 <offpeak808@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Here's the situation:
>
>- Getting good results with live recordings to two tracks.
>- Tweaking/mastering them a bit with Isotope or Waves
>- Looking for suggestions for small nearfields with decent accuracy and
>representation

What's your budget and what have you used that you like?

There is nothing that has decent accuracy and representation at any price.
You have to live with coloration. Selecting speakers is basically a matter
of deciding what coloration you can live with and what you can't, which is
why my choices may well be different than yours.

>Currently I'm lugging my gear over to a friend's AV room and camping out for
>a couple days to master on his JBL K2 S5800s and his Levinson amp, but this
>is not really a feasible solution with 20+ projects needing attention.

Do you like the top end on the JBLs, or do you think it's a little hard?
Do they sound beloved patriot to you, or are you okay with the vocal reproduction on
them? Do you need real low-end extension or can you live without that?

>Any recommendations on a pair of ok working speakers that can give me decent
>accuracy for simple monitoring/mastering without discussions about room
>environments and US$20K+ speakers. There is no customizable room environment
>(it's my back office at a club) and the speakers will need to be on my desk
>in front of me, so they will be mid/small and probably self powered.

That's the real problem. You're going to run into a lot more trouble with
the room than with the speakers in that sitation. Just because you are
working in the nearfield doesn't mean you can get away with a small room.

>What have you used which gives you decent enough bass and definition to
>monitor EQ and compression somewhat accurately? I've been lucky enough to
>have worked with guys like Don Murray, Bill Schnee, Ted Jensen, Bernie
>Grundman, etc to have developed decent working ears, so I know it's
>impossible to replicate anything similar to their product, but I do need to
>find a pair of small work horse speakers that can at least let me hear the
>changes being made, can reference over to both home and hi-end, and won't
>set me back to much cash, while I try to get the best results I can with
>what I have to work with. : )

What is decent enough bass? I find the NHT Super Ones acceptable as cheap
field monitors, and I think they go down low enough for most things although
sometimes I get surprised when I miss things that I would have heard on the
big monitors. Other folks are happy with the NHT Super Zero, which I
personally think is way too restricted on the bottom end to be useful.

What's your budget? And what have you liked?
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <cuirag$lil$1@jupiter.ttn.net>,
"offpeak808" <offpeak808@hotmail.com> wrote:

> find a pair of small work horse speakers that can at least let me hear the
> changes being made, can reference over to both home and hi-end, and won't
> set me back to much cash, while I try to get the best results I can with
> what I have to work with. : )

I'd be looking at Quested, ATC, and perhaps some Dynaudio and PMC
models. The smaller high-end B&Ws or some small Dunlavy's if you can
find any may be possibilities as well.

--
Jay Frigoletto
Mastersuite
www.promastering.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

- Budget: preferable under $1000
- Re JBL top ends: Sounds medium hard and thin to me, and seems to have a
compacted bass. Not bad for DVD theater, but not really a sweet audio
speaker. I'm surprised they cost so much.
- The older JBLs sounded beloved patriot and dull to me, even though people I really
respect have told me to get a pair of old 4320s, and power them with a
similar vintage amp or a Macintosh (amp of course). They said the driver
"efficiency" is amazing.
- Real low end: I can live without it and just trust the graphic and a few
good listens around on good systems with accurate bass. I can even borrow
some listening time at the new Sony Music Studios in Tokyo (which is an
amazing facility) to get a good listen to what what I'm really missing, so I
can know to compensate/boost/cut in the future.
- Re room: If it's absolutely necessary, I can clear out a decent sized drum
room recording/practice space to use if the room equation is a must, but I
wouldn't have full use of the space, so setting up in the middle of the
room, finding a sweet spot, making sure my speaker placement never gets
moved is impossible.
- Likes: B&W and Canton bookshelf speakers, older KEFs, the smaller
Westlakes, Tannoy Super Golds
- Dislikes: Genelecs (too glossy), NS-10s (too rough, harsh mids)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cuirht$ape$1@panix2.panix.com...
> offpeak808 <offpeak808@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Here's the situation:
> >
> >- Getting good results with live recordings to two tracks.
> >- Tweaking/mastering them a bit with Isotope or Waves
> >- Looking for suggestions for small nearfields with decent accuracy and
> >representation
>
> What's your budget and what have you used that you like?
>
> There is nothing that has decent accuracy and representation at any price.
> You have to live with coloration. Selecting speakers is basically a
matter
> of deciding what coloration you can live with and what you can't, which is
> why my choices may well be different than yours.
>
> >Currently I'm lugging my gear over to a friend's AV room and camping out
for
> >a couple days to master on his JBL K2 S5800s and his Levinson amp, but
this
> >is not really a feasible solution with 20+ projects needing attention.
>
> Do you like the top end on the JBLs, or do you think it's a little hard?
> Do they sound beloved patriot to you, or are you okay with the vocal reproduction on
> them? Do you need real low-end extension or can you live without that?
>
> >Any recommendations on a pair of ok working speakers that can give me
decent
> >accuracy for simple monitoring/mastering without discussions about room
> >environments and US$20K+ speakers. There is no customizable room
environment
> >(it's my back office at a club) and the speakers will need to be on my
desk
> >in front of me, so they will be mid/small and probably self powered.
>
> That's the real problem. You're going to run into a lot more trouble with
> the room than with the speakers in that sitation. Just because you are
> working in the nearfield doesn't mean you can get away with a small room.
>
> >What have you used which gives you decent enough bass and definition to
> >monitor EQ and compression somewhat accurately? I've been lucky enough to
> >have worked with guys like Don Murray, Bill Schnee, Ted Jensen, Bernie
> >Grundman, etc to have developed decent working ears, so I know it's
> >impossible to replicate anything similar to their product, but I do need
to
> >find a pair of small work horse speakers that can at least let me hear
the
> >changes being made, can reference over to both home and hi-end, and won't
> >set me back to much cash, while I try to get the best results I can with
> >what I have to work with. : )
>
> What is decent enough bass? I find the NHT Super Ones acceptable as cheap
> field monitors, and I think they go down low enough for most things
although
> sometimes I get surprised when I miss things that I would have heard on
the
> big monitors. Other folks are happy with the NHT Super Zero, which I
> personally think is way too restricted on the bottom end to be useful.
>
> What's your budget? And what have you liked?
> --scott
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

offpeak808 <offpeak808@hotmail.com> wrote:
>- Budget: preferable under $1000
>- Re JBL top ends: Sounds medium hard and thin to me, and seems to have a
>compacted bass. Not bad for DVD theater, but not really a sweet audio
>speaker. I'm surprised they cost so much.

You will find the very top end on the Mackies is just about as hard, but
otherwise I would tend to recommend the Mackie monitors in that price range.

>- The older JBLs sounded beloved patriot and dull to me, even though people I really
>respect have told me to get a pair of old 4320s, and power them with a
>similar vintage amp or a Macintosh (amp of course). They said the driver
>"efficiency" is amazing.

Horn-loaded speakers give you a lot of efficiency and a lot of directivity,
at the expense of weird midrange resonances, which are where some of that
honkiness comes from.

>- Real low end: I can live without it and just trust the graphic and a few
>good listens around on good systems with accurate bass. I can even borrow
>some listening time at the new Sony Music Studios in Tokyo (which is an
>amazing facility) to get a good listen to what what I'm really missing, so I
>can know to compensate/boost/cut in the future.

If you can live with the total lack of low end, the LS 3/5a is actually one
of the nicer sounding speakers out there. Very clean midrange. Easy to
damage and no low end whatsoever.

The NHT M-00 is another example of a pretty clean speaker with no low end
end.

>- Re room: If it's absolutely necessary, I can clear out a decent sized drum
>room recording/practice space to use if the room equation is a must, but I
>wouldn't have full use of the space, so setting up in the middle of the
>room, finding a sweet spot, making sure my speaker placement never gets
>moved is impossible.

Try it.

>- Likes: B&W and Canton bookshelf speakers, older KEFs, the smaller
>Westlakes, Tannoy Super Golds
>- Dislikes: Genelecs (too glossy), NS-10s (too rough, harsh mids)

Actually, you might like the Genelec S30s, which aren't glassy on top like
the rest of the line. But you won't find them under $1k. I think the Mackies
are the real winners in the under-$1k range, but the Tannoy Reveal is another
box you should give a listen to. You might also find some of the other
non-concentric older Tannoys in that price range... I suspect you might not
like the top end sound on the dual-concentric Tannoys.

Although, there's nothing wrong with using a pair of B&W or KEF bookshelf
speakers as monitors. They're easy to damage if you aren't careful, but the
little B&Ws are a hard act to follow and they turn up used at okay prices.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

I'll be listening hard over the next couple weeks.
thanks!

"Jay-atldigi" <atldigi@aol.com> wrote in message
news:atldigi-B9BE1D.13055811022005@news.verizon.net...
> In article <cuirag$lil$1@jupiter.ttn.net>,
> "offpeak808" <offpeak808@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > find a pair of small work horse speakers that can at least let me hear
the
> > changes being made, can reference over to both home and hi-end, and
won't
> > set me back to much cash, while I try to get the best results I can with
> > what I have to work with. : )
>
> I'd be looking at Quested, ATC, and perhaps some Dynaudio and PMC
> models. The smaller high-end B&Ws or some small Dunlavy's if you can
> find any may be possibilities as well.
>
> --
> Jay Frigoletto
> Mastersuite
> www.promastering.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

It was hard to find NHT S1's in Taipei, but I managed to hear them in not so
great settings but through good amps.
No Mackies or Tannoys to compare unfortunately. I did hear the Tapco monitor
which sort of turned me off.
Thoughts: The S1's were flat for sure. But it sounded like the bass just
stopped around 120. The hi mids sounded a little boxy but were clear. Maybe
that was due to the flatness, or maybe I was used to hearing hyped upper
mids. For some reason I felt like I wasn't getting a lot of separation and
definition, but that could be due to the horrible listening environment. I
think I can deal without the entire bass. Enough to know what I need for the
live mixes. Thanks!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"offpeak808" <offpeak808@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:cuuqdt$5km$1@jupiter.ttn.net

> It was hard to find NHT S1's in Taipei, but I managed to hear them in
> not so great settings but through good amps.
> No Mackies or Tannoys to compare unfortunately. I did hear the Tapco
> monitor which sort of turned me off.

> Thoughts: The S1's were flat for sure. But it sounded like the bass
> just stopped around 120.

Must be a speaker positioning thing. S1s are pretty strong down to 80.

>The hi mids sounded a little boxy but were clear.

I have a pair, I'm not totally in love with them. I listen to them without
pain.

Could also be a positioning thing.

> Maybe that was due to the flatness, or maybe I was used to
> hearing hyped upper mids. For some reason I felt like I wasn't
> getting a lot of separation and definition, but that could be due to
> the horrible listening environment.

OK, so the location was dodgy.

>I think I can deal without the
> entire bass. Enough to know what I need for the live mixes. Thanks!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

Arny Krueger <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote:
>"offpeak808" <offpeak808@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:cuuqdt$5km$1@jupiter.ttn.net
>
>> It was hard to find NHT S1's in Taipei, but I managed to hear them in
>> not so great settings but through good amps.
>> No Mackies or Tannoys to compare unfortunately. I did hear the Tapco
>> monitor which sort of turned me off.
>
>> Thoughts: The S1's were flat for sure. But it sounded like the bass
>> just stopped around 120.
>
>Must be a speaker positioning thing. S1s are pretty strong down to 80.
>
>>The hi mids sounded a little boxy but were clear.
>
>I have a pair, I'm not totally in love with them. I listen to them without
>pain.
>
>Could also be a positioning thing.
>
>> Maybe that was due to the flatness, or maybe I was used to
>> hearing hyped upper mids. For some reason I felt like I wasn't
>> getting a lot of separation and definition, but that could be due to
>> the horrible listening environment.
>
>OK, so the location was dodgy.
>
>>I think I can deal without the
>> entire bass. Enough to know what I need for the live mixes. Thanks!

This brings up a whole other set of questions.... because most of the
time when you're using portable monitors in the field, you're having to
deal with dodgy locations.

Does anyone know if any of the very-narrow-dispersion monitors like
the SLS ribbons help at all for dealing with improvised monitoring in
bad rooms? I would think the bottom end wouldn't be much different,
but how about the top end? Or does the narrow dispersion mean that
rooms with a live top end turn into rooms with very little perceived
top end because your ears are compensating for what the room sounds
like before the speakers are turned on?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cuvl5f$p3p$1@panix2.panix.com

> This brings up a whole other set of questions.... because most of the
> time when you're using portable monitors in the field, you're having
> to deal with dodgy locations.

> Does anyone know if any of the very-narrow-dispersion monitors like
> the SLS ribbons help at all for dealing with improvised monitoring in
> bad rooms? I would think the bottom end wouldn't be much different,
> but how about the top end?

I have no specific experience, but from experience I'm of the opinion that
for controlled directivity to be a lot of help, it has to cover a lot of the
audible range. This is just about physically impossible in a small speaker.

>Or does the narrow dispersion mean that
> rooms with a live top end turn into rooms with very little perceived
> top end because your ears are compensating for what the room sounds
> like before the speakers are turned on?

I'm worried about the transistion in the midrange.