My TiVo has been struck dumb

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

In article <42a63e20$0$41910$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>, jermec wrote:
>
>
> "Mike Henry" <{$usenet-spamdump$}@mrtickle.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:hdbca1d2p2rq95muefj1ci8tsn1lck3aaj@4ax.com...
>> In <bd8ca1lvnjprn62bf3tp49b90n0im3ch1q@4ax.com>, Andy Turner
>> <andyt@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Indeed. It is lots of "little things", which taken cumulatively make a
>> very nice TV viewing experience, but are by the same token very hard to
>> sell. We end up sounding like evangelists unfortunately.
>>
>
> We looked in to getting a Tivo about 5 years ago, and decided against it. On
> a whim, a couple of years later, we grabbed the last one they were "ever
> going to have" in a branch of Comet (yes, I know). It's one of the best
> things we've ever bought. It's completely changed how we watch telly. The
> only thing we watch live now is the Moto GP. Everything else we watch when
> it suits us. We keep talking about getting a bigger disk, but don't know how
> we'll cope for the few days we'll be without it - if we do it ourselves,
> we'll probably have to do without it for good.

Took me about 2 hours to do a bigger disc into the tivo. I'm unsure of whether
it can deal with more than 120 gig of a single disc though...

Following instructions, and having some knowledge of the gubbins in the PC,
and having a CD burner should be enough...

Smid

 

[graham]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 21:05:32 GMT, SINNER
<arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote:


>What makes you think a Tivo wont do that? You do realize suggestions
>can be turned off VERY easily right?


We are talking in the context of the option of being able to record 2
programmes at the same time as against the "functionality" of Tivo.

For me the option to record 2 programmes at the same time far
outweighs any "functionality" that Tivo may provide.

We are simply going to have to agree to disagree.

Graham

 

[graham]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 18:24:43 -0400, "Randy S."
<rswittNO@SPAMgmail.com> wrote:


>What you're doing is like criticizing a cell phone service for having
>free call-waiting. If you don't like it just disable it, but how is it
>bad that they offer it for free if you want it?

We are back to the original point of this discussion.

Various people have said that Tivo pisses all over Sky+ because it has
some particular "functionality". Given a choice between this Tivo
"functionality" and the ability to record 2 channels at the same time
and be able to watch back a 3rd channel whilst recording 2 channels, I
would opt for Sky+ every time.

Clearly for some people the Tivo functionality is important, whilst
for me the dual recording function is important.

I just do not accept that Tivo's "functionality" pisses all over Sky+.

Tivo and Sky+ are two different animals.

We will just have to agree to disagree.

Graham

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

>>What you're doing is like criticizing a cell phone service for having
>>free call-waiting. If you don't like it just disable it, but how is it
>>bad that they offer it for free if you want it?
>
>
> We are back to the original point of this discussion.
>
> Various people have said that Tivo pisses all over Sky+ because it has
> some particular "functionality". Given a choice between this Tivo
> "functionality" and the ability to record 2 channels at the same time
> and be able to watch back a 3rd channel whilst recording 2 channels, I
> would opt for Sky+ every time.
>
> Clearly for some people the Tivo functionality is important, whilst
> for me the dual recording function is important.
>
> I just do not accept that Tivo's "functionality" pisses all over Sky+.
>
> Tivo and Sky+ are two different animals.
>
> We will just have to agree to disagree.
>
> Graham

That may have been the original point of the discussion, but it is not
what you said, nor what I was responding to for this post. You said
specifically:

"All the tivo functionality = a box that tells me what it thinks I
should watch, rather than recording what I want to record."

and

"It's not incorrect. I want the box to only record specifically what I
tell it to record."

Both of those statements are specifically complaining that Tivo is
recording things other than what you ask for. This has nothing
whatsoever to do with single vs. dual tuners. If this wasn't the
contention, then why bring it up? If it is a contention, then I (and
others) have demonstrated that it's silly to criticize Tivo because of
"suggestions" since at worst you can easily disable them.

If your main contention is that you prefer dual tuners w/ less
functional software to a single tuner w/ more functional software, then
you are absolutely correct, that is a value judgement that I am more
than happy to agree to disagree with you about.

I myself would prefer to have both ;-). Too bad Comcast doesn't serve
my area.

Randy S.

 

[graham]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 22:48:21 GMT, Andy Turner
<andyt@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:


>* Allow recording in multiple quality levels to better manage space
>(you hardly need to record Eastenders in best quality, so let it take
>up only a few MB and leave the best quality for films).

I wouldn't see this as a feature.

Having been used to watching in broadcast quality, I can't stand to
watch anything that isn't recorded in broadcast quality.

Graham

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

>>* Allow recording in multiple quality levels to better manage space
>>(you hardly need to record Eastenders in best quality, so let it take
>>up only a few MB and leave the best quality for films).
>
>
> I wouldn't see this as a feature.
>
> Having been used to watching in broadcast quality, I can't stand to
> watch anything that isn't recorded in broadcast quality.
>
> Graham

Actually, I agree with you. Multiple quality levels only exist because
of limited recording space. If the DVR has limited space, then it is a
feature. But it would be a *better* feature to have ample recording
space. Directv integrated Tivo's have no compression level choices
because the satellite compression is already better than the DVR can do
and there'd be no point in trying to compress it anymore.

Randy S.

 

[graham]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:20:38 GMT, "Mike Redrobe" <mike@redrobe.net>
wrote:

>Looked at = compared the number of tuners.
>Didn't bother with anything else.
>
As I have already said, my other half worked in a TV/Video shop. They
knew both systems inside out.

We were aware that Sky+ were going to launch a dual record option on
their box.

We both took the view that this was far more important than any
feature of a Tivo box.

>> Sky has over 750,000 customers using Sky+ in the UK. How many
>> Tivo customers are there?
>
>750k in total? Tivo added 750k in the first quarter this year, over
>3 million total worldwide.
>
Let me clarify. How many UK Tivo customers are there?

>> If Tivo has such a killer application then I would expect the Tivo
>> numbers to be substantial in the UK.
>
>Good marketing has little to do with product quality
>
I would disagree.

I've just spoken to the other half. By way of example, their shop used
to deal with Tivo and Sky. They would show the features on both boxes.
The vast majority of customers felt that they would want a box that
could record two channels at the same time. than any other feature.
Sky+ was always a very clear winner with customers.

Anyway, we have been around and around this discussion for numerous
postings. We are all just going to have to agree to disagree.

Graham

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 17:08:56 GMT, graham@dircon.co.uk wrote:

>On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 22:48:21 GMT, Andy Turner
><andyt@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>* Allow recording in multiple quality levels to better manage space
>>(you hardly need to record Eastenders in best quality, so let it take
>>up only a few MB and leave the best quality for films).
>
>I wouldn't see this as a feature.
>
>Having been used to watching in broadcast quality, I can't stand to
>watch anything that isn't recorded in broadcast quality.

Different channels are broadcast at different bitrates in the first
place aren't they? I guess you'd have to see it to appreciate it, but
the lower qualities are fine, depending on the programme. Something
trashy and with little movement (perhaps HIGNFY), will probably look
almost identical, but with a 50% reduction in file size. I wouldn't
use it for action films though.

However, I've got 160gb in my Tivo, so everything goes on Best Quality
anyway!


andyt

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 13:22:34 -0400, "Randy S."
<rswitt@nospamgmail.com> wrote:

>
>>>* Allow recording in multiple quality levels to better manage space
>>>(you hardly need to record Eastenders in best quality, so let it take
>>>up only a few MB and leave the best quality for films).
>>
>>
>> I wouldn't see this as a feature.
>>
>> Having been used to watching in broadcast quality, I can't stand to
>> watch anything that isn't recorded in broadcast quality.
>>
>> Graham
>
>Actually, I agree with you. Multiple quality levels only exist because
>of limited recording space.

The recording space of *any* PVR is limited of course. Allowing trashy
programmes to be recorded in lower quality (which is often not
noticable), gives you more recording time, without having to expand
the HDD (which most people wouldn't do). I know of people with
unexpanded 40GB Tivos that use it, and I also have a friend who's had
Sky+ for about 2 weeks who has moaned it's full and he wants an
upgrade...!


>But it would be a *better* feature to have ample recording space.

I've got 160gb in my Tivo, which for me is ample. I can go away for a
fortnight and it won't have had to clear stuff off to make room for
the newer stuff. However, someone else might set more stuff to record
and thus would appreciate a quick way to extend the recording time by
adjusting the compression.


> Directv integrated Tivo's have no compression level choices
> because the satellite compression is already better than the
> DVR can do and there'd be no point in trying to compress it anymore.

This is lossy compression we're talking about so it can *always*
compress some more, depending on what you're willing to lose. I
suspect DirectTV's Tivo doesn't have compression settings because it
doesn't do encoding in the first place and simply stores the feed - as
Sky+ does.


andyt

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

> This is lossy compression we're talking about so it can *always*
> compress some more, depending on what you're willing to lose. I
> suspect DirectTV's Tivo doesn't have compression settings because it
> doesn't do encoding in the first place and simply stores the feed - as
> Sky+ does.
>
>
> andyt

Yes, that's exactly the case. I guess my point was that Directv does
better compression than the DVR can, so it's best to just record the
native feed, which is what it does. A cable-integrated Tivo could do
the same thing with a digital cable feed when they release one.

Randy S.

 

[sinner]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

* Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

> On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 21:05:32 GMT, SINNER
> <arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote:
>
>
>>What makes you think a Tivo wont do that? You do realize
>>suggestions can be turned off VERY easily right?
>
>
> We are talking in the context of the option of being able to
> record 2 programmes at the same time as against the
> "functionality" of Tivo.
>
> For me the option to record 2 programmes at the same time far
> outweighs any "functionality" that Tivo may provide.
>
> We are simply going to have to agree to disagree.
>

I can do BOTH with my Tivo. To me that makes your box less
functional. You can disagree if you like but I dont see it.

--
David

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

In article <bd8ca1lvnjprn62bf3tp49b90n0im3ch1q@4ax.com>,
andyt@nospam.demon.co.uk says...
> * Recording from any source. Hey, I can Tivo my best laps or karaoke
> singing on PS2!

I once recorded myself playing Halo on the Xbox

> * Allow you to specify recording programmes based on favourite actors,
> genres or even keywords. This allows us to tell it of our favourite
> sports team, activities, popstar etc.. and it'll record *any*
> programme that happens to feature them. Absolutely *brilliant*.

I did this with Laurel and Hardy, individually

When appearing on the Frank Skinner Show in 2003, Samuel L Jackson said he
uses his to see which of his films are on TV that week.
--

Dom Robinson Gamertag: DVDfever email: dom at dvdfever dot co dot uk
/* http/DVDfever.co.uk (editor), http/LeilaniWeb.co.uk (editor)
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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

In article <hdbca1d2p2rq95muefj1ci8tsn1lck3aaj@4ax.com>, {$usenet-spamdump$}
@mrtickle.demon.co.uk says...
> You'll
> never "get" the niceness of it from shop demos either - it only happens
> when the TiVo does something that becomes very ordinary after time, but
> you think "wow that's great" the first time.
>
I got that early on, the first time I forgot to record a programme I watched
often as I wasn't well and went to bed for a bit of a kip, early evening. I
woke up and realised I'd forgotten it but... it was recorded as a suggestion

--

Dom Robinson Gamertag: DVDfever email: dom at dvdfever dot co dot uk
/* http/DVDfever.co.uk (editor), http/LeilaniWeb.co.uk (editor)
/* 1046 DVDs, 305 games, 145 CDs, 92 cinema films, 33 videos, concerts & news
/* alienVpredator, kung fu hustle, doctor who, constantine, churchillhollywood
Fight back against "PRESS RED": http/dvdfever.co.uk/pressrel/pressred.shtml
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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

In article <gf9ea1lg8027h5fdt6kfnlif7ju3cnp27p@4ax.com>, graham@dircon.co.uk
says...
> On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 22:48:21 GMT, Andy Turner
> <andyt@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
> >* Allow recording in multiple quality levels to better manage space
> >(you hardly need to record Eastenders in best quality, so let it take
> >up only a few MB and leave the best quality for films).
>
> I wouldn't see this as a feature.
>
> Having been used to watching in broadcast quality, I can't stand to
> watch anything that isn't recorded in broadcast quality.
>
I think it's a great feature. If I've got a lot of stuff I need to watch, but
still need a daily squint at some of the Wright Stuff, and to flick through
Working Lunch, Neighbours, etc, I'll record the latter in a lower quality
setting.

I'd rather do that than have them in a higher setting and push off the other
non-daily stuff, or go without them at all given that I know what the
cast/presenters on each show look like so just need to hear the dialogue,
mainly, or fast-forward the unexplicable storyline of Toadie going out with
that fat bloater - she won't be on a WWE Divas DVD, that's for sure(!)
--

Dom Robinson Gamertag: DVDfever email: dom at dvdfever dot co dot uk
/* http/DVDfever.co.uk (editor), http/LeilaniWeb.co.uk (editor)
/* 1046 DVDs, 305 games, 145 CDs, 92 cinema films, 33 videos, concerts & news
/* alienVpredator, kung fu hustle, doctor who, constantine, churchillhollywood
Fight back against "PRESS RED": http/dvdfever.co.uk/pressrel/pressred.shtml
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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

In article <7p9ea15v1u3kn0vs1m6r28s8ld8j3juamm@4ax.com>, graham@dircon.co.uk
says...
> On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:20:38 GMT, "Mike Redrobe" <mike@redrobe.net>
> wrote:
>
> >Looked at = compared the number of tuners.
> >Didn't bother with anything else.
> >
> As I have already said, my other half worked in a TV/Video shop. They
> knew both systems inside out.

Impossible when it comes to TiVo, but see my previous post about that where I
ask what training on the unit she received and how it's not a unit you can
begin to judge without using it at home for several weeks first.

> We were aware that Sky+ were going to launch a dual record option on
> their box.
>
> We both took the view that this was far more important than any
> feature of a Tivo box.

You've so contradicted yourself and Mike Redrobe has got you banged to rights
with his comment:
"Looked at = compared the number of tuners.
Didn't bother with anything else."

> >> If Tivo has such a killer application then I would expect the Tivo
> >> numbers to be substantial in the UK.
> >
> >Good marketing has little to do with product quality
> >
> I would disagree.
>
> I've just spoken to the other half. By way of example, their shop used
> to deal with Tivo and Sky. They would show the features on both boxes.
> The vast majority of customers felt that they would want a box that
> could record two channels at the same time. than any other feature.
> Sky+ was always a very clear winner with customers.

Marketing is precisely the point as my previous post on this stated. Until
you've used a TiVo you can hope to judge it.
--

Dom Robinson Gamertag: DVDfever email: dom at dvdfever dot co dot uk
/* http/DVDfever.co.uk (editor), http/LeilaniWeb.co.uk (editor)
/* 1046 DVDs, 305 games, 145 CDs, 92 cinema films, 33 videos, concerts & news
/* alienVpredator, kung fu hustle, doctor who, constantine, churchillhollywood
Fight back against "PRESS RED": http/dvdfever.co.uk/pressrel/pressred.shtml
DVDfever.co.uk on BBC News 24's Click Online! - http/tinyurl.com/2mqj4

 

[seth]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

"SINNER" <arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote in message
news:Xns966F903EC204BLouiscypherhellorg@140.99.99.130...
>* Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>
>> On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 21:05:32 GMT, SINNER
>> <arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What makes you think a Tivo wont do that? You do realize
>>>suggestions can be turned off VERY easily right?
>>
>>
>> We are talking in the context of the option of being able to
>> record 2 programmes at the same time as against the
>> "functionality" of Tivo.
>>
>> For me the option to record 2 programmes at the same time far
>> outweighs any "functionality" that Tivo may provide.
>>
>> We are simply going to have to agree to disagree.
>>
>
> I can do BOTH with my Tivo. To me that makes your box less
> functional. You can disagree if you like but I dont see it.

Well, Graham being in the UK doesn't have the option of a 2 tuner TiVo. For
him it comes down to a choice. A) TiVo features that as nice as we think
they are and say so, having never experienced them (like us before TiVo)
can't really be expected to see their full value vs. B) 2 tuner convenience.

You know now which you would pick if you had to choose between the 2 (2
tuner vs. TiVo software), but what might you have picked way back before you
really knew TiVo software? I came over to DirecTV from DiSH purely (at the
time I had a fairly stable DiSHPlayer 7x00) because of the 2 tuners.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

In article <gf9ea1lg8027h5fdt6kfnlif7ju3cnp27p@4ax.com>, graham@dircon.co.uk wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 22:48:21 GMT, Andy Turner
><andyt@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>* Allow recording in multiple quality levels to better manage space
>>(you hardly need to record Eastenders in best quality, so let it take
>>up only a few MB and leave the best quality for films).
>
> I wouldn't see this as a feature.
>
> Having been used to watching in broadcast quality, I can't stand to
> watch anything that isn't recorded in broadcast quality.

Radio programmes?

Smid

 

[sinner]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

* Seth wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> "SINNER" <arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote in message

>> I can do BOTH with my Tivo. To me that makes your box less
>> functional. You can disagree if you like but I dont see it.

> Well, Graham being in the UK doesn't have the option of a 2 tuner TiVo. For
> him it comes down to a choice. A) TiVo features that as nice as we think
> they are and say so, having never experienced them (like us before TiVo)
> can't really be expected to see their full value vs. B) 2 tuner convenience.

> You know now which you would pick if you had to choose between the 2 (2
> tuner vs. TiVo software), but what might you have picked way back before you
> really knew TiVo software? I came over to DirecTV from DiSH purely (at the
> time I had a fairly stable DiSHPlayer 7x00) because of the 2 tuners.

While I see your point, before this thread, I had never even heard of
SKY+, is it available in the US? If it is then his request for numbers
was even less relevant as I dont think the nunmbers, if they exist, come
close to Tivo subscriptions.

--
David
<Culus> Ben: Do you solumly swear to read you debian email once a day and
do not permit people to think you are MIA?
<Ben> Culus: i do so swear

 

[graham]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 19:10:47 GMT, SINNER
<arcade.master@googlemail.net> wrote:


>I can do BOTH with my Tivo. To me that makes your box less
>functional. You can disagree if you like but I dont see it.

Fair point. Equally, I hope that you will understand that I see the UK
boxes that cannot record 2 channels at the same time as less
functional.

Graham

 

[graham]

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo,uk.media.tv.misc (More info?)

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 12:25:46 GMT, SINNER
<99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.invalid> wrote:


>While I see your point, before this thread, I had never even heard of
>SKY+, is it available in the US? If it is then his request for numbers
>was even less relevant as I dont think the nunmbers, if they exist, come
>close to Tivo subscriptions.

In America, you probably have a valid point in favour of Tivo.
Similarly, you could say the same in the UK about Sky+

Graham