Pioneer Reciever Doesn't Detect PS3 Formats (DTS,DD,true hd, etc) - WON'T SHOW SIGNAL LIGHTS

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Ransome

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I have recently invested into a high quality home cinema, which includes:
Pioneer VSX-823-K Receiver
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receiver...
A 5.1 Speaker System: a Morel Solan (front) + Morel Primo SP1 (back) + Morel Sub8 (sub).
http://www.morelhifi.com/home-audio/solan
My TV is: 55" SAMSUNG LED SMART TV: UA55D6400
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/814260-REG/Samsun...

I have a PS3 SLIM 120 GB connected to the DVR/BDR hdmi port.
A PS4 connected to the GAME port.
A PC connected to the BD port.
And Cables connected to the SAT/CABLE port.
DVD port is empty.
The Reciver is connected from the HDMI OUT to the Samsung Smart TV's HDMI 2 (ARC) port with a HDMI WITH ETHERNET cable.

Now the problem is mainly with the PS3:
I never detects the format: meaning no SIGNAL LIGHTS are shown or light up - when I play a game, or watch a Blu-ray movie/series: even though I have set Audio settings to Auto: and all the advance formats are ticked-on: DTS, DD, etc...

I run games that have Dolby Digital or DTS featured for sure: Ni No Kuni, Final Fantasy XIII-2, Dark Souls, Resistance 3 and more: the receiver never shows: "DTS" or "DD" on the display, and no signal light icons are lit.

I tired changing the audio to EXT.Stereo, I tried changing to AUTO-Surround, and I have also tried changing to DIRECT: nothing happens:
The display on the panel of the receiver just shows "DIRECT" that glides and disappear after 3 seconds.

The same issue cannot be said to happen with my PS4:
When I go to the PS4 audio settings: the default was LPCM:
I have changed it to DTS: and I can see DTS flashing on the front panel for 3 seconds, and also a *DTS* bright blue signal light - lights up at the bottom left portion of the front panel.
When I change the audio settings to DD: a DD is flashing on the front panel for 3 seconds, and a small *DD* signal light is shown constantly at the bottom of the panel.
Those lights remain constantly regardless of anything. I only have Killzone Shadow Fall atm, so I can't test more.

So the main issue is with the PS3: Why doesn't the Pioneer receiver detects the audio formant and indicate it - by showing it on the front panel? Does it mean I will never enjoy any of those formants: DD, DTS. Dolby True HD, DTS HD etc - formants that my VSX-823-K receiver is advertised as featured?!

Another odd issue worth mentioning with the PS3: is whenever I play a game, or exit a game, or a movie, a Blu-ray disk - whenever the resolution changes and the screen turns off and on abruptly: the entire monitor flashes with static "snow" white with rainbow colors. Similar to the "snow" effect on ancient TVs when no signal was shown.
So I launch Ni-No-Kuni for instance: the monitor turns black, then flashes with static white for about a second: and then black again with "720p 60hz" shown at the upper corner: then the screen turns on and I can see the game. I never had this issue back when my PS3 was directly connected to the TV.


 

XM Keeper

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My receiver doesn't show the format used unless I push one of the 4 buttons above the arrow keys. Normally, my receiver just flashes words like "MP3 Playback", "IPOD", "DIGITAL PLAYBACK". It is probably just a preview mode.

Anyway, I have my PS3 set to only output Linear PCM formats. However, the only other options my PS3 gives me are AAC, DTS 5.1 Ch., and Dolby Digital 5.1 Ch.

I think it might be important to point out that, my PS3 is the 1st gen model, the CECH-A1. Later models have more audio formats to choose from and that could be why things are a bit more complicated with your PS3 than mine.

To check that I am using PCM when I am using my PS3, I click the ALC/STANDARD button on my remote, clicking through the 3 options I have for that button: Stereo, Stereo ALC, and PCM. Here is a video I made on that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nYUCNCB9DI&feature=youtu.be

**

By the way, the Standby Through setting is the pass-thru device. This allows you to select one input to pass through the receiver when it is turned off. Like, if it is set to BD, then you can see the BD device on your TV even if your receiver is off. It just sends the audio and video to the TV.
 

Ransome

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2 more issues I have are: overly echoing sounds and voices when changing to any of the ADVANCE AUDIO options: Action, Drama, Advance Game, Sports: the characters or broadcasters voices sounds like they are echoing inside my head, like gods talking, or as if they stand in an empty concert hall.

Additionally: When playing through the BD port - where my PC is connected: and playing a PC game (for instance Bioshock Infinite): no Advance Audio options are available aside from ECO1 and ECO2.
When I press Auto/Direct on the remote: I can pick from PCM, auto surround, and direct.
Again - no signal light icons are shown on the panel.

When I watch tv from the cable box, and change modes: I have new options: Dolby Pro logic Music, movie etc: and I DO SEE SIGNAL LIGHTS.

I suspect my Pioneer receiver doesn't communicate with my PS3 and probably my PC too, and thus not decoding DTS, DD properly.
 
when you are playing with the PS3 do you also see PCM / LPCM ?

when playing on ps3 is the knob (or buttons) of your receiver set to "auto"?

what are your audio settings on your ps3?

oh and PCM sound would be considered better than dolby digital since most of that is all compressed while PCM is completely uncompressed audio. i personally would have left the ps4 on pcm and not changed to DD/DTS

did you ever hook up the mic and run mcacc to autocalculate speaker delay?

what are your computer audio options set to? i take it that the receiver is default however did you change the audio options to 5.1?

does your samsung tv act up with any other source?

does your receiver have any post processing (image/video adjustments or enchancements) turned on?

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i currently use a pioneer receiver (elite vsx-30) with a ps3 (hooked up to BD slot via hdmi) and it is set to video output by hdmi (@1080p) and audio output via hdmi and it works fine. i did run the advanced mcacc audio calculations with the mic.

action/drama/etcetera modes all seem to work fine for me.

my receiver is set to straight hdmi video passthrough. i have no video effects being processed by the receiver.
 

Ransome

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OK so here is what I did, after reading this article:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/04/21/hd-101-how-to-use-dolby-truehd-and-dts-hd-with-your-ps3/
and this
http://www.avsforum.com/t/842477/bitstream-vs-linear-pcm
following the first article, I have decided to test it myself:
I changed the Linear PCM to Bitstream in BD/DVD Audio Output Format (HDMI):
I ran Cowboy Bebop Blu-ray, and saw how, when starting an episode: a DTS-HD MA signal light - turned on!! this was very reassuring, that my receiver is working properly at least.
I have also pressed Select on the dualshock, and saw:
DTS HD MA : Multichannel 48hz

I have then got out, changed the BD/DVD audio settings to Linear PCM, and ran the show again:
So when running an episode: no signal light was shown on the front panel of the receiver: nor did I see PCM or LPCM.
So to answer your question: no I never see PCM or LPCM lights on the front panel.
However, I pressed Select: and saw DTS-HD MA : 5.1 Channels 48khz - just like the first article above shows on the last image.

Why don't I ever see PCM or LPCM on the Receiver? I have no clue? is this something to be concerned about?! you think my receiver isn't working properly on PCM? or perhaps it simple doesn't have a signal light for PCM/LPCM in the first place?

so to answer directly your questions:
1: when playing games: I don't see anything, not PCM, not LPCM, no DD, DTS, DTS-HD MA or DD THD nothing....
2. not sure what you mean knob or buttons: but I press on the front panel buttons: Stream Direct/Auto surround or ALC/Standard Surround or Advance Surround to change MODES: if you are referring to modes: I tried changing to Direct or to Auto Surround:
It shows Direct on the front panel, and also Dir. signal light is shown.
When changing to Auto Surround: it shows Auto Surround, and an Auto Sur. light is shown.

3. My audio settings are set on Automatic, through HDMI, meaning all formats are ticked with checkmarks. So is my display settings.

4. I have ran MCACC twice to be sure: it measured my spear distance, change their channel strength (db) and size. I re-changed the size back so that my Front and Center are LARGE (as they really are large shelf speakers), my Sub as YES, and my Surr as Small (satellite speakers).

5. funny that you mention it, I checked and saw that my PC - when Duplicating screen or Extending - "discovers" an new sound source: Pioneer VSX-823: and then I went to properties, and set it as well to 5.1 with full range speakers and even ran a test. All good.
Although the sound source "disappears" when I went back to PC screen only.

6. not sure about the Samsung TV question. Just connected with dongle to the Wi-Fi. And set on AnyNet+ to communicate with the Receiver (Receiver at ON) - in general settings.

7. not sure about that, does it post-process? how can I know or find out about it? I don't have those options: my only options in the ugly OSD 50hz menu are:
Auto MCACC - which I ran.
Manual Sp Setup - which I have tweaked.
Input Assign - never touched that.
Auto Power Down - OFF

HDMI Setup - which set like this:
Control - on
ARC - on
Standby Through: OFF ------> What is this? it was OFF by default, so I haven't touched it ???

Network Standby: never touched that since my Rec isn't connected to the network.
MHL Setup - auto switch ON.
OSD options.

8. How do I set " straight hdmi video passthrough" like you said? I don't have that options.
Also I press on "audio parameters" on the remote, and saw that EQ is on, and that Delay is at 0ms.

9. Further: I can't stand that echo with the Advance Audio options: when listening @ Sports, and watching a hockey game for instance, or even commercials: the broadcasters are echoing so loud and echo-ey that is sounds like the gods of sports are talking.
When playing Final Fantasy XIII-2 at Advance Game: the 2 characters are standing in the desert talking, and their voices echo in a bad way. It shouldn't be like this!!

Btw, no idea if it matters if my PS3 is connected to DVR/BDR or to BD for example. I placed mine on DVR/BDR because it is convenient.
I have talked to the store I bought the receiver from, and he has no idea why this happens - he is a big arse jerk btw - but he said: "bring it over, we will check it here, see if we need to replace it etc.." - I don't really like having strangers meddling and messing with my new bought system: but if it is bugged, then I want to replace it if I can : not fix it.

Btw: I have also tried to reset factory settings through the NETRADIO menus. I tried updating firmware. I have also tried manual RESET: by clicking at BAND+STANDBY when the receiver is off > Then clicking Advance Surround > then Standard for OK.
 

Ransome

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Also you didn't tell me:
Do YOU see DTS, DTS-HD MA, DD, DD TrueHD or PCM, LPCM signal light - no the front panel?
when playing games? games that include DTS or DD featured in?
Also does the Reciever automatically change to DTS, DD, PCM etc - when playing games and show that on the front panel as lights or on the display itself?

Also, when mode are you using when playing games? and what are you using when watching Blu-ray?
Additionally: You know the difference between: "Auto Surround" and "Direct" ? And also is it "Better" or "worse" than Ext.Stereo ( I figured Ext.Sterero is only good for music, sounds great overall though, just not accurate), and than the Advance Surround modes (action, game etc..)?
Also Direct vs PCM vs Auto Surround ? .... god I am confused.
 
the vast majority of the time i have my receiver mode set to "auto surround". this allows my receiver to handle things automatically which works great.

on my set the current sound mode (ie stereo, DTS, DD, PCM, etcetera) is displayed in large letters on the front panel.

when on the pc idle or surfing the net the receiver displays "stereo" since all windows sounds are stereo or mono only. when playing games either "PCM" or "DTS" (or appropriate other dd mode) is displayed. when watching movies "DTS" or "DDigital" (or appropriate other mode) is displayed.

when on the ps3 idle or in the main menu "PCM" is displayed. when in game "PCM" is displayed. when watching a movie either "stereo" or "PCM" is displayed.

my L, C, R, SL, SR & LFE (it uses LFE for SUB) are lit when in PCM or DD modes. they are not lit in stereo mode.

to answer your question about "EXT STEREO" this mode duplicates the signals sent to the front speakers to the back speakers as well. i use this mode when watching some stereo only movies or when listening to music.

"AUTO SURROUND" is basically "simple mode". it automatically adjusts the number of channels used based on the source content. if you have a stereo only movie it runs in stereo. if it was recorded in 5.1 you have 5.1 output.

"PURE DIRECT" or "DIRECT" basically bypasses any post processing (eq or sound effect modes of your receiver)

the other sound modes are generally just modified EQ values or in some cases sound effects (if yours has modes like "hall", etcetera).

which is superior? well some people prefer always running in direct though i prefer keeping mine set to auto. the only time i change is to ext stereo when listening to music or stereo movies. or webcast movies on netflix which are also stereo only.

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1: although receivers differ i would think you should se some indication
2: okay
3: that is how i have mine set up as well
4:in mcacc/receiver options large shows up as "tower" speakers correct? also i would think your other speakers might be classified in the bookshelf size (sorry hard to get a sense of scale from that photo!) typically "tower speakers" arent matched to "satelites". of course i could be wrong with the scale of that photo or the actual outputs (since i really didnt look to much into the specs). in any case with mcacc ran correctly there shouldnt be a problem and it almost sounds like you have some sort of echo mode turned on (you said it was just a problem with game, sports, etcetera modes right?) please specify if it appears in auto-surround or direct modes as well.

to comment on number 5:

please explain how you have everything set up.

it sounds like you have normal computer monitors which you use most of the time. and then only sometimes do you use the tv. if this is the case then with the tv off (and not being detected by your video card (which in this case is passing the sound information along) then you will not get audio. for such setups you would need to run a spdif optical or coax cable from your computer (either from soundcard or motherboard output) to your receiver. the negative is that it does NOT support 5.1 uncompressed sound (and only a few limited DD or DTS modes) though it does support uncompressed 2.1 (for any stereo source).

i just did a test for you and turned off my television while running a game with audio. the audio ceased perhaps 5 seconds after i shut the tv off and resumed when i turned the tv on.

i should mention that my television is my primary display. connecting via hdmi works great for this scenario and everything is autodetected just fine. adding extra displays also works just fine (so long as you always have the tv connected as a display).

to comment on number 6:

and what are you using this wifi dongle for? are you not connected to the receiver direct via hdmi for video signal?

7: you may not have any of these features.
8: if you dont have any of number 7's features then you should already be running straight passthrough.
9: while i dont use the advanced modes much i've never heard any sort of echoing on mine. what source are you watching these shows on?
 

Ransome

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1. I am starting to think my Reciever don't have any *PCM* signal lights: if you read the manuall in the Pioneer website link
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/VSX-823-K_OperatingInstructions011713.pdf
at page 8: there is a list of light indicators: I cannot see any PCM signal lights, however there are DTS, DD, DD THD etc...

Still I am a bit concerned that my Receiver doesn't show any signal lights or shows it even for a few seconds on the display- when I play games. Basically, when I run a game, it doesn't automatically change to anything. Even when I am at Direct or Auto Surround. The main display on the front panel will remain on DVR/BDR and no lights will show up.

I also have this odd *snow* white/rainbow static flash when the monitor changes resolutions (basically when a game/app/movie starts up). That is un-explainable, and I don't know if it can damage my TV screen or the Receiver or the PS3...
Tried changing the cable, its not it.

4. No the speakers are Bookshelf size: I figured they are big enough to be considered LARGE, although they are definitely not Towers or anything, they are significantly larger than the small, round - plastic - satellite speakers. You can check the measurements: they are made of wood/mdf. with acoustic echoing box (shape and design of it) - so they are significantly different than normal plastic speakers. Similar to speakers from old Stereo systems, just not as big.
MCAA automatically detected them as LARGE, however it detected my Center as Small.
I personally think it's very wrong: Since my Center is the largest speaker I have, heavier than the Subwoofer which is quite a beast, and has double twitters and stuff (I think). So I manually changed the size of the Center to Large.

So my setup is: LARGE, LARGE, SMALL, SUB. I didn't change the DB at all. I changed everything back to 0. But I used MCAA auto distance calculation.
What do you think? did I set it right? do you have Tower speakers? small? bookshelf large?




 

Ransome

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5. This is the funny part, you wouldn't believe it: but actually my PC gaming rig, is in my bedroom: in a separate room, across the wall! so I can never have eye contact on both the TV and PC.
So here is how it is: MY PC is sitting in my bedroom, connected to a single 23" LG monitor, a 5.1 creative speakers connected to the PC in the Green/black/orange Realtek Sound card slots.
I changed my TV (which is Screen #2) to: "This is my main display" - so that games will run on it when I play on Extend.
I then press START+P or better yet: use the amazing, super convinent Windows 8.1 Charm menu: to change my Project from PC Screen Only (which is my regular setup when surfing or playing in my room) to Extend or Duplicate.
I then pick up my Wireless Xbox360 Controller (its receiver still connected to the PC) - go out of my room, and into the living room. And play. I usually turns my PC monitor off to save power, but if someone sits in my room, he can see and use the desktop, and if I am on duplicate: he see my game "plays by itself" - LOL!!!!!
I also started using STEAM BIG SCREEN mode, it is awesome, amazingly awesome and continent. Makes your STEAM feels like a gaming console, only sharper and faster.

6. about that: the Dongle is simply to connect my Samsung Smart TV to the internet, the wireless wifi, and mainly to connect between it and my Samsung Galaxy S3 smartphone: so I can stream pictures, videos and especially music - from nearly anywhere in my house!
It works like a charm, it is very fast to set up, and the quality of picture or music is just sweet. It is currently my main way to play music.
I can also use MHL, but I require an MHL 2.0 Adapter: which is hard to get, a: because of the price, and b: because the market including Amazon and Ebay is full of Chinese knockoffs and fakes that look just like it, or look different and worth $hit.

9. About the Advance modes: no it is only with those modes, excluding EXT. Stereo. It is how they are on default. I even reset my unit several times. And tried updating it's software (not sure it worked, since it didn't say "success" but it did return to main screen after).

Anyway: I didn't understand you: when you are playing PS3 games: do you see light indicators like DD, DTS, DTS HD MA? or do you always see PCM???
Also does the big letters on the front panel briefly change from DVD (or whatever hdmi port you put) to DTS for example when playing game?

I have to know if my Receiver is bad and needs to be replaced - or if it is normal that I don't see any indicators or mode change when running/playing games.

here are a few images, when playing Final Fantasy XIII-2:



What do you think man? unplugging and carrying my Receiver to the city and going through the checking and fixing/replacing it is a big fuss, and can damage my receiver if the guys there won't handle it properly. They aren't pros. The might replace it, but I am not sure I need to.
If you say your PS3 always shows games as PCM, even DTS and DD games, without showing and DD DTS lights: then maybe all is ok: since it is possible that my receiver simply doesn't have a light for PCM.
Still it is very odd that I don't get any indication....my PC doesn't show any light either, even when set on PCM!

(EDIT: you think those issues can be because of the DVR/BDR hdmi port???? maybe its different than DVD/BD/GAME ports? )
 
1: it seems as if your receiver doesnt have as many lcd display functions as mine does. then again mine was $550 (yours looks to retail for $399) and is part of the elite lineup (instead of being part of the normal lineup). just because my receiver lists a whole bunch of functions doesnt necessarily mean yours will. just keep that ind mind. if you look at page 34 of the manual it lists PCM under the "pure direct" sound mode. perhaps this is giving you PCM but just doesnt have an icon to show it? my display always reads the current audio mode and only shows the source (ie bd/dvd) when i change it for a few seconds. i'm not sure if there is an option to display the source or the current audio mode in the mcacc options however i do think i remember seeing something like that.

4: bookshelf speakers should be listed as bookshelf in mcacc not large. large speakers refer to tower speakers. the difference is that towers can handle more bass output and are generally a bit mroe full ranged and capable of more output in Rms. from what you have said i would probably list the fronts as bookshelves and the rears as satelites. if you click the link above my sig you can see what i use. i have a klipsch quintet iv satelite speaker set (50w(200 peak)/ch with 75w(300 peak) center and 450w sub). i have them set up as satelite speakers using the mcacc options and ran the speaker delay test (which sounds like armies are fighting WWIII in my room! i just thought thats a bit funny).

5: so meaning you only need the home theater system to work with the pc when you are gaming in the secondary room correct? when you have the tv turned on and run in "extended" mode the receiver should be detected in your sound settings. now i'm not sure if it will automatically be set to default (as your 5.1 pc set will likely set to default...) but you may want to play around with this. since you have things in different rooms and since you have a 5.1 hooked up to your soundcard AND a 5.1 hooked up to the receiver on different displays i'm not sure i have a quick fix. if you had the system in the same room and used the home theater system for both your monitor and tv (are both 1080p?) then there is a fix you could do if you used only one at a time (which would be to run both through the receiver and just have a hdmi switch after the receiver with one going to the tv and one going to the monitor... however it only supports using one at a time) but this also doesnt support being in a different room at all.

6: does audio work fine with this device? since you said it plugs into the tv you would need ARC support on the receiver input (audio return channel) i believe in order to get sound.

9: on the ps3 99% of the time i always see PCM and the 6 icons lit up for spk/sub (5.1). i also see the icon for hdmi (since i use hdmi), autosurround (since i leave it on this receiver mode 99% of the time), sp->a (since my unit has both an a and b zone), the db rating, some little squiggle i'd have to look in the manual to discern what it is, another hdmi icon and my current sound mode (stereo, pcm, etcetera)

i'm more prone to thinking that your receiver just doesnt have the lights or as many options as the one i have. your display is more in line with cheaper models which dont have as many options on the display. my receiver displays PCM since it is working in pcm mode (perhaps pure direct mode on yours works the same but without a pcm light). this is better than DD/DTS. i only see stereo when on the pc idle or watching stereo movies/web streaming and DTS/DDigital when watching movies. most games on the pc display PCM. again, perhaps its either a display setting where my audio mode always gets the big letters (look for a setting like this) or its a feature of my receiver which costs $150 more than yours.

i have my ps3 on the BD port and my pc on the hdmi 2 port. the only thing i could see having a problem would be the tv dongle which needs arc support so it would need to be on an arc capable port.

as far as what you should do... well thats up to you. i'm thinking your set just might not have the icons on the display for all the modes like mine does. in case you care http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/VSX-30_OperatingInstructions0430.pdf page 11 shows the various modes mine lists on the front panel. as you can see its alot more complex than yours. the one thing that sounds fishy is your adv modes sounding odd however concert and one of the others is specifically meant to sound like a hall (so will echo). not sure if sports is meant to sound like a stadium (if so it might echo too). i would just ignore those adv modes.

if you really want to see settings and you just bought the set not too long ago you could always return your receiver and then upgrade to a pioneer elite model. they really do pack in alot of features. the display shows more information, the mcacc menus are nicer but its a higher pricetag. completely up to you. honestly i think you are probably fine with what you have now and can likely get it to work but i can tell you that the reason i went with an elite (it cost $550 and my speakers cost $500 and sub cost $250 so it was a rather large chunk of budget!) was because i dont like the front panel displays on the cheaper units and i liked the mcacc on screen display of the higher end sets. i've had a few minor problems with it (the overheat sensor went haywire and it wouldnt start up but it was a simple punch in code to disable this and it only happened once and hdmi 1 was giving me some odd speaker popping one night (hence why i use hdmi2) however that was only one night that it started that out of the blue and it might have been something else causing it (honestly i didnt investigate it since i have a lots of hdmi inputs).

---------------------

anyways... just my take on things.
 

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I have my PS3 set to output PCM. When I my PS3 is turned on, my receiver displays PCM and I have no issue with sound(I have a similar model to yours). However, when I play PS2 games, I don't get any sound unless I set the receiver to thru, which sends the sound to my TV. Also, I don't get any sound for tv shows with 2 channel sound on netflix on my Xbox 360.

To my knowledge, this certain line of Pioneer receivers cannot decode certain audio formats through HDMI. I have only specified one format for sure that doesn't work, and that is Dolby 2 channel sound (through HDMI of course), which explains why 2 channel sound on my 360 and PS2 games on my PS3 don't work. However, there is a possibility that it could be any 2 channel sound through HDMI.

I don't know why these receivers cannot decode these formats, but there isn't much that we can do to change it. However, I have heard that using optical cable seems to work fine (however, you only get 5.1 sound that way).

But first, go to your PS3 audio output settings and turn on PCM and turn off dolby and see if that fixes anything.
 

Ransome

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>> Can you please send me some photos of your front panel when it happens, so I can understand?

You are saying it changes to PCM? automatically when you play a game or switch to the HDMI port the PS3 is on?
Whenever I switch to a port: for instance turn on the TV, turn on the Reciver, switch from GAME to DVR/BDR (which is my PS3 port) > I simply get: DVR/BDR on my front display. I don't see PCM or any other options.
When I press on Direct or Auto Surround > I see Direct or Auto Surr on the front panel for 1-2 seconds, and its gone. and also see a Dir or Auto signal light.

>>>> Do you get any signal lights for PCM? tiny *PCM* letters? or something? and do you ever get DTS HD or DD for instance when playing games?

also how did you set your audio options exactly?
And what model do you have exactly?
Do you have this white-snowy flash when the screen changes resolution?
 

Ransome

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@ssddx
Well I can consider replacing my current VSX-823-K model, pay an extra, and getting a better model. Upgrade is possible according to the guy from the shop. But Which model should I pick?
I only use 5.1, and I don't really see any reason to go 7.1, although I can have a 7.1 receiver with 5.1 speakers I guess.
You receiver doesn't have built in Wi-Fi (Wireless network I mean) correct? only an Ethernet cable port?
You model don't exist anymore in the line up, if you look at the main page: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers
there are AV Receivers and there are Elite Receivers: The first - entry - receiver in the Elite lineup is VSX-43 which I guess is slightly more advance than your Elite Vsx-30:
But honestly, I don't see how VSX-43 is better than my VSX-823-k, aside from looking better and being fancy. Perhaps better display options? or compatibility? or better sound with no echos in Advance etc?
Also not sure which is better? VSX-43 or for example - from the regular lineup VSX-1023/1123/1223 etc? they cost the same or even more. 1223 cost as much as vsx-70.
This is why I hate this system of many models. I wish it was like Intels CPUs: i3, i5 and i7. Simple and effective. With i5 being just as good as i7.

I can upgrade: but to which model? what do you think?
I am thinking that if I upgrade I might as well upgrade to something that has built in wireless WiFi to sue the Control App, and Blue-tooth. This are the only 2 things my Receiver lacks.

4. Regarding the Bookshelf box speakers. Unfortunately I don't have any Bookshelf size option in Auto-MCAA(which is auto and I can't change manually) nor in the Manual SP Settings. I listed above the only options I have when I hit HOME on the remote.
I get this ugly, flickering 50hz display that seems taken from the early 80's.
I only have LARGE, SMALL and NO. Since MCACC auto-determined that my front speakers are LARGE - I kept them as large, but change the Front from small to Large. Because honestly: I think that's the largest, non-tower, Center speaker in the market.
So I won't put them at Small, but I keep my satellite back speakers as Small. I think that's reasonable no?

5. Works like a charm. win8.1 is a genious. I love it. So basically: I set my main display to be the TV, and my main sound device to be the HDMI Pioneer VSX-823.
when I switch to PC SCREEN ONLY in the charms/STAR+P - it takes about 10 seconds for the HDMI receiver sounds source to disappear.
Then, the Realtek 5.1 sound card speaker settings becomes the new default device!
When I change back to Extend or Duplicate: the receiver HDMI appears - along with the green icon specifying it is the Default device!

For now it works.

6. Yes I enabled ARC, and also ANYNET+ in my Samsung TV with Receiver at ON. Now I can volume up in my TV remote and it will volume up the receiver. Also when I shut down the TV, the receiver simultaneously goes to standby/poweroff as well. However they don't turn on together. I saw a youtube video how someone turns on the TV and then after 10 seconds the receiver turns on too. It isn't happening for me over here. Although Anynet+ feature only talks about turning off together.
How is ARC working for you? do they turn on together?
I noticed that whenever I want to use the TV+receiver: I have to turn on the TV, then the receiver, then the receiver is on TV for somereason - which displays nothing. Then I have to manually change to DVD/BD/GAME etc to get the picture I want. It never auto-detects my source. Does this make sense?
Also it never say my current Audio mode, not even for a sec, unless I manually change audio mode.
Seems like unlike your receiver, my default front panel - big letters - are showing the HDMI source (Bd/GAME/DVD....). And only showing the audio mode or volume when I change them, or whne I press on the Display button on the front panel.

I have watched the pioneer videos of the VSX-523,1023,1123 and other videos, and it seems like they all work this way. Also never noticed a PCM signal light. Strangely enough, I also watched the Elite VSX-43 and it also have the Source as the main big letters display.


Anyway, like I said, I can either keep my receiver and not mess with the build and wires. I can replace it with a new one if the store see fit. And I can upgrade.
Looking for your recommendations. Not sure what to pick and what model to pick if I upgrade - so I can actually feel like I got my money's worth.

Thank you so much for your patience and help!
 

Ransome

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Just discovered a small issue: the store I bought from, don't have the Elite receivers, since these are from the American line-up, and not sold in Europe.
I live in Israel.
While we get hardware from either the states or EU, this time: they claim they only have EU receivers: which means the equivalent to the ELITE is LX:
HOWEVER: those LX series (there are only 3 models) - are overkill right off the bat:
Unlike Elite VSX-43 which is rather "entry" level.
...So SC-LX57-K is a 9.2 receiver! woooow who the hell needs 9.2 speakers? crazy and silly.

When it comes to the regular EU receivers: the shop has:
VSX-823-K (my model), VSX-828-k (wth?), VSX-923-K, VSX-1123-K etc.
VSX-923-K features Wifi but no Blue-tooth.

----

Also, I consider moving away from pioneer in favor of a different brand.
I though about Denon perhaps, or maybe this efficient Onkyo receiver, check this out:
http://reviews.cnet.com/av-receivers/onkyo-tx-nr626/4505-6466_7-35636573.html
Both Wifi, and Blue-tooth. Not sure about MHL connectivity. But I think I can always connect my Samsung G S3 to an MHL port with a Samsung MHL 2.0 HDTV Adapter.
I feel like I really should replace my Receiver, at least to remove all doubt: I have this snow/static white flash with my PS3, and also the lack of info, the ugly dated menus (which may also be in the 923 or 1123 models...).

EDIT: ok scratch that: those damn bastards from the shop claim I can no longer refund or upgrade to a new receiver because: "according to the law/policy" (in Israel? or the law you guys just made up) - since it was plugged to the electricity: you can no longer return it.
WHAT THE HELL? what is it a damn underwear?

So at max they claim they can replace it to a new one - if they find it's not working properly: which means I have to carry the receiver and drive to their shop, and they will test it there: they might make a fool of me, and find excuses not to replace, and they might mess with it too much they will damage it.

If I can be sure I can replace mine with a new sealed box, maybe...
 
@what you said about 50hz display (i take it you are referring to the mcacc setup and option screens?)
in some countries with a 50hz electricity standard 50hz is standard (and even 100hz tvs still take a 50hz signal and just fake in the extra frames). i do agree that mcacc windows are a bit basic or ugly compared to what they should look like but i've never had any flickering really. the only time i ever see a flicker is when changing display modes from lets say 720p to 1080p or something of that nature (and thats from the source not from the receiver).

honestly the difference between the elite and normal receivers is a fancier display, more mcacc options, a whole heck of alot more inputs and perhaps a few options over the standard models and thats about it. my model doesnt have wifi however i bought it before that became the craze these last few years. it does have ethernet however since i dont use it... it doesnt matter to me. i also do not have bluetooth but i do have a physical cable for my ipod. again i bought it before the bluetooth craze. i'm thinking the vsx-43 may be a replacement to my vsx-30 however looking at the price and the rear panel what i have might be slightly better so perhaps one step up from that vsx-43. honestly its hard to keep up with all the models.

i looked up the LX series and it looks similar to the higher end elite models we have to me. it certainly has the features and inputs on the rear that the high end models do.

as far as what as an upgrade? well from what you say thats not an option in your store. i agree its shady and unreasonable at least by standards here. in any case at this point i cannot say that the sound issues are a receiver problem. more testing is definitely needed to verify that and i would try something in house a little more before thinking about going to that shop. chances are they will want to hook it up to their own equipment (meaning a dvd player they have and their speakers) and then it will work perfectly fine and make you look like a fool. since you are having issues with sound from your ps3 you would have to bring that in as well and if it is some sort of setting or if lets say that particular input mode doesnt work right with the ps3 (just saying in case it was a limitation of some sort) and they got it working you would also look like a fool. there is always the chance of them damaging something or in the case of your ps3 changing some setting you dont know how to fix. as far as i know you still had no sound from ps3 correct and that is your main issue right?

what i would suggest doing before that is to try swapping to an input that you know works. such as the game input and then doing a reset on your ps3 (look up video reset keys and do it). it will ask you for 1080p and hdmi when you start it up next and say okay. then go into your sound properties and make sure they are correct. do you get sound?

on the ps3...
settings>video> there is a dvd/br audio which should be on hdmi (mine is set to LPCM as well). do dvd movies play fine on your ps3?
settings>audio> the audio setup should be set to hdmi and automatic (i think you said you did this though.)

try swapping to the hdmi cable you use for a working component to check if its just a cable or connector issue. also using the same port you were for the working component.

basically a process of elimination to find the culprit.

---

i'd rather see you wait another day to play around with things in house to see if you can get sound output working before you go to that shady shop however its certainly your choice.
 

Ransome

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@ssddx wait wait..... I think we two a slight mis-communication here, let me sum up the issues and concerns that I have:
1. This odd, "snow"/rainbow static, white, flickery - FLASH of light over the entire screen when the PS3 changes Resolution.
This only occurred to me with PS3.
It looks like the old CRT TV's (from the early 90s) "snow" stutter screen when you are not connected to any channels. I was shocked to see it.
It happens for just a second! - this flash of rainbow/snow static replaces the BLACK SCREEN that should appear when PS3 or any other source changes the resolution.

So basically: when you run a game, or Blu-ray: with a normal TV and setup: the PS3 will exit the XMB menu, the screen will go black momentarily, then it will go back up - still black usually - and at the upper corner of the screen you will see the resolution info coming from the TV so: 1920x1080 @60Mhz for example.
When you change to a 720p game - same process: screen blacks out as it "leaves" the 1080p Res of the Ps3 main menu, then go back as the 720p.

Now in my case, instead of a black screen I get this static snow that looks like millions of dots flickering like a blizzard (still high resolution dots lol!) - that will also light the entire room when its dark since its bright. Then the screen goes back.
I tried replacing the cable, and also tried putting the PS3 on the BD port instead of the DVR/BDR port. Still the same.
Not sure if this can damage anything like my PS3/Receiver/Tv display - I hope not. I am starting to think it is a PS3-Pioneer compatibility issue: since I never had it when my PS3 was connected directly to the same TV.

2. Advance modes are waaaaay too echoy. Like someone is using the announcement speaker in a stadium, or like the voices of the gods are echoing in an empty concert hall. No I don't have "concert hall" mode. But when I put on Sports - and watch a sport games, the broadcasters are so echoic and loud, that it just sound funny, and distracting. They sound as if they stand with big mega-phones inside the arena.
When I put on Advance Game and play Final Fantasy: they stand in the middle of an open field, and their voices echo as if they are in a cave.

Maybe Pioneer are trying to make a "cinema" feel and sound, but its just wrong and wrong. I don't know if its my system being messed up or not. I know one guy complained about it in Amazon, but he also gave the system a 1 star or something -which sounds like an angry review.

3. I do get sounds, both with my PS3, PS4, Cable Box and PC. Only that I don't get any signal lights when playing games in the PS3/PC/PS4 on LPCM settings:
Including no PCM indicator.
Also it never automatically change to say PCM in big letters (on the front panel), or DTS for instance.
It only changed to PCM/DTS/DD - on the PS4 Sound options menu - when I toggled between these options there! = very odd.
Which leads me to conclude that PCM simply have no signal lighting in my PS3, and that although Ni-No-Kuni, Final Fantasy, Resistance, The Last of Us, and more games: definitely have DTS, DD etc : the PS3 probably always plays on PCM: and since there is no indication: I can never tell that this is the case!

I don't have issues with sounds. and when playing on Auto-Surround or Direct, or PCM (when I get the option): sound - sounds good, with no oddities. and I get 5.1 surround.

4. Btw, have you ever tried to RESET THE UNIT or made a Firmware update? I made those stuff several times after I tweaked the settings. Reseting was done by: holding BAND+STANDBY > AUTO/DIRECT > STANDARD/ALC.
Updating was done by going to NATRADIO > HOME > Fireware update > plugging a USB drive with only the update file in it, no folder > OK. I didn't get SUCCESS on the screen, but it didn't say FAILED either. Also it returned to the ugly very-flickering network menu when it was done.
 
1:
i'm using a pioneer receiver as well and dont have snow. when swapping resolutions as in loading a game that isnt 1080p my screen goes black and a horizontal line appears across the middle and radiates out in a few colors but only for a split second then it goes black, my tv flashes the top bar with res for a split second and the game plays.

i've heard about snow issues on other brands as well. you could try unplugging the receiver from the wall for a few minutes and then doing a system reset (you may need to look on google to see how for your particular unit). perhaps that might fix the issue. if not then the snow might definitely be an issue with something defective. i think the flashing or any color/lines is normal though if its only for a split second.

2:
i just played around for only a few minutes with a youtube video and the "sports" and "classical" almost seemed like they had a little bit of echo but not enough for me to be distracted. i didnt care for them so likely wont use them but i didnt find them terrible. perhaps you just have a different ear (no pun intended) for sound than i do. in any case i have no issue with auto or ext-stereo which i use for 99.99% of everything including watching movies, playing games, etcetera.

i would suggest you give it a try as i dont think its really an issue with your system here just settings or modes that you dont like. in any case it sounds like you are stuck with this unit (or maybe a replacement of the exact same) so there isnt much you can do except live with it sorry to say. unless of course you made a huge deal and managed to get some sort of response out of them where they will allow you to exchange for a different model. however that doesnt guarantee you will like the advanced modes on that one either.

3:
in the menu my ps3 is always set to LPCM (linear pcm) by default. even from a full system reset it auto enables this mode. i think your particular receiver just doesnt have a signal light for pcm.

i cant promise that on auto you are getting pcm as there is no indicator light although on pure direct it is stated as PCM in the manual so i could almost guarantee it. in any case i think you are fine on either of those modes.

4:
no, i never did a reset. the key combination can vary by model so that might not work on my model. how i wish i knew the code though (essentially i paid $30 to have somone plug in the code since i couldnt find it anywhere!) i probably should have contacted pioneer customer service but alas... i didnt. the only time the unit was reset was when the overheat alarm came on and the unit wouldnt power up again. there wasnt any physical damage and i think it just tripped accidentally.

i've never updated the firmware. generally its adviseable almost to not update firmware unless you have issues. there are some cases of certain electronics having issues with firmware updates (where firmware updates introduce new issues) so i tend to avoid doing so unless i have problems. not saying its a definite only saying that its been known.

my mcacc menus arent flickering. not sure why yours do (do you have a 120hz tv?)

------------

in short...

the snow might definitely be an issue with the receiver. perhaps swapping out with another unit may fix the problem.

the adv surround is likely just you not liking those modes. i dont think its an actual issue with the unit.

i think your unit just doesnt have lights on the front for modes you want.

the only thing major i see is the snow issue. the rest i dont think is an actual problem with your receiver.

 

XM Keeper

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My receiver doesn't show the format used unless I push one of the 4 buttons above the arrow keys. Normally, my receiver just flashes words like "MP3 Playback", "IPOD", "DIGITAL PLAYBACK". It is probably just a preview mode.

Anyway, I have my PS3 set to only output Linear PCM formats. However, the only other options my PS3 gives me are AAC, DTS 5.1 Ch., and Dolby Digital 5.1 Ch.

I think it might be important to point out that, my PS3 is the 1st gen model, the CECH-A1. Later models have more audio formats to choose from and that could be why things are a bit more complicated with your PS3 than mine.

To check that I am using PCM when I am using my PS3, I click the ALC/STANDARD button on my remote, clicking through the 3 options I have for that button: Stereo, Stereo ALC, and PCM. Here is a video I made on that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nYUCNCB9DI&feature=youtu.be

**

By the way, the Standby Through setting is the pass-thru device. This allows you to select one input to pass through the receiver when it is turned off. Like, if it is set to BD, then you can see the BD device on your TV even if your receiver is off. It just sends the audio and video to the TV.
 

XM Keeper

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I have a similar model receiver, and I do get the snow on rare times, as well as no sound. However, it only happens when I play PS2 games on my PS3.

I think the receiver is functioning properly. I think that this line of receiver just wasn't built with all the correct audio formats. Google it. A lot of people have issues with Pioneer receivers and no sound for certain things through HDMI.
 

Ransome

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@ssddx
1. Actually, now that you are saying you are getting: "when swapping resolutions as in loading a game that isnt 1080p my screen goes black and a horizontal line appears across the middle and radiates out in a few colors but only for a split second then it goes black, my tv flashes the top bar with res for a split second and the game plays":
That sounds ALMOST THE SAME as the issue/case that I have:
Only mine are more like flickering white/rainbow dots and snow - and yours are a radiating lines!

So can I ask a your for a favor?
Please unplug the PS3 HDMI cable from your receiver - and plug it directly to the TV.
Then change the source on the remote - to where you plugged it (for example HDMI 3).
Once you get image (probably without the receiver's audio) - try changing Res, loading games, changing display settings - etc:
Tell me if you are still getting this horizantal lines - when swapping resolutions, or loading games at different Res (1080p, 702p etc).
If you still get these lines - that that's "normal" for your TV.
But if my guess is correct: I bet you will only get black screen, then another black screen followed by your display showing the Resolution and refresh rate, then the image appears. <<<
That's how my Samsung UA55D6400 responded when the PS3 was plugged to it directly. The snow/static issue only occurred ever since I plugged it to the receiver.

Please test it when you can, and tell me the results. Also what kind of TV do you have?
(my snow issue is also for no more than a split sec up to a sec probably).

2. Yeah Auto Surround, Direct, Pure Direct, Ext.Stereo all sound good, although I have only tested for several minutes each game, never for full sessions. I was so busy testing and checking for errors I forgot to actually start playing with the new system. Ext-Stereo sounds the loudest, but I suspect it is the least accurate surround for games and 5.1 films since it duplicates the stereo sound into the rear. Direct and Auto Surround are nearly the same for me. Pure Direct disables the MCACC signal light - meaning no MCACC effects and EQ are enabled. Also the auto Phase is disabled and just about any sounds processing. Additionally I think Pure Direct doesn't have any surround in it, according to a guy from the service labs of Pioneer here in Israel (well from the official importer of Pioneer).

If I really try hard, I can replace mine with a new model, but like you said, I rather not risk my system in case I don't get a new one, and rather not go through the hassle and pain of dealing with those crooks.
The system is original and new, that's for sure.

4. Well I know how to Reset my unit, like I said above, the walkthrough of it appears in the Owner's Manual PDF - in the first few pages.

However - now I am concerned about the several attempts I made to update Firmware. While I think it succeed, I can no longer undo it. The store I bought from didn't tell me not to update the firmware.
I just contacted the guy from the Pioneer importer service lab in Israel: now he is using that against me!
He says that since I "tried to be a Pioneer technician by myself" and "messed with things I shouldn't" - now he will tell the store that when I ask for replacement. What a lowlife son of a..
Bullshit! who doesn't update his Android, or his Graphic card, or his laptop etc.
No one in the store told me "don't not do X and don't do Y", they even said: "we don't provide guides, pioneer have everything online".
This is a bunch of crap. I think I made the firmware update correctly, since when I go to NETRADIO>HOME and check the Release version I see: s9294.4004.1066 which is the same as the firmware update version number: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Pioneer+Receivers/VSX-823-K

EDIT: the guy from the lab just said I might have updated a European VSX-823-K with an American Firmware update. To be honest, I don't think VSX-823-k has a European version: http://www.pioneer.eu/uk/products/42/98/405/overview.html
Since I can't find it here in the list. They said the only way to undo a firmware version is burning the rom or something: meaning - we open&screw with your receiver.

Double EDIT: I just checked and both European and American firmware updates are the same: both are called: ARM2014APP1066.bcd both take 14,229 KB. So I think I am good.
I just regret messing with it so much: doing manual reset, doing factory reset through the NATRADIO>HOME menu, and doing firmware update. I was just trying to reset things and start over.
 

Ransome

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Well seems like your receiver responds and display the same way mine does, minus the IPOD, DIGITAL PLAYBACK preview, I don't have it. My default big letters display (on the front panel) is the HDMI port: BD, DVD, GAME etc.
I did set my audio options to Automatic in PS3 sound, I think it is better to have all formats.



First off, YOU ROCK! thank you so much for making this Vid, you have no idea how helpful and reassuring it is. I see that you too have no PCM signal light indicators. And that you only see PCM when you actually switch to it manually when pressing on Standard Surround/ALC.
I can't believe you went through making a video just for this! much appreciated man!

Regarding the Standby Through: I think that options disables the ARC, although I haven't tried it.
Since the manual says:
To apply ARC you need Control to be set to ON.
To apply Standby Through you need Control to be set to OFF.
So seems like it clashes. And I want ARC. need to test if it is possible to have all 3 things as ON.

btw - did you ever updated the firmware according to the manual? I feel like I messed up, although I am sure I updated it correctly. Also have you ever reset the unit? or do a factory reset?
further what model do you have?
And tell me, if you press NATRADIO > then press HOME on the remote: you will be transferred to a menu with "firmware update" "network" "system info" "factory reset" etc: does this screen flickers and look jaggy?



 
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