Solved! Safe to use lower wattage power supply on laptop?

jacob_174

Prominent
Mar 3, 2017
12
0
560
0
Ok so I bought a used laptop before finding out the power supply doesn't have enough wattage that the laptop needs (uni PSU) but the voltage is correct. I noticed obvious throttling when playing games and the backlit keyboard would flicker, I assumed it's because the system isn't getting enough power. I am going to get the correct power supply ASAP, but is this going to cause damage to any components?

PSU is 90W while the laptop needs around 180W..

laptop acer Predator G3-571
 

darkbreeze

Admirable
Moderator
Yes, that's a problem and COULD not only potentially, but probably, cause damage or even short out the power supply if a high enough amperage spike occurs from the unit trying to draw more power than your transformer was designed to handle.

I would not use it AT ALL anymore until you have a power supply unit that meets the requirements of the laptop. It's not worth the risk.
 

jacob_174

Prominent
Mar 3, 2017
12
0
560
0


thanks for the response, but I really don't care if there could be potential damage to the power supply, since i'm having it replaced. I'm more worried about the laptop it self and the components inside being damaged..
 

darkbreeze

Admirable
Moderator
Yes, you do care. Anytime a power supply is damaged, if it fails or lacks protections, it can also damage anything it is connected to. So that's a bad idea.

That applies whether it's an inline power supply like those used on laptops or even an internal power supply like those used on desktops. Actually, for ANY electronic device that uses a power supply, it would be a bad idea to continue using the device when the power supply is incorrect for the specifications of the unit OR even when it's the correct one for the unit but is faulty in any way.
 

jacob_174

Prominent
Mar 3, 2017
12
0
560
0


ok, well how would I be able to tell if damage has occurred ? everything seems normal on it besides when I try to game..
 

darkbreeze

Admirable
Moderator
It doesn't matter whether damage has occurred or not, it WILL occur if you keep using it. If you don't care about the laptop, use it. If you do, don't. I promise it's not worth the risk of ruining the laptop just to wait a few days or a week for the correct unit to arrive. If you MUST use it, use it ONLY for normal usage. Do NOT use it for gaming which draws considerably more power than normal usage.
 

jacob_174

Prominent
Mar 3, 2017
12
0
560
0


Thanks for the reply, It's a problem though when you buy it used.. I don't know if damage has occurred. I'm planning on getting the right PSU tomorrow. Hopefully this laptop hasn't been damaged.. spent a lot of money on it ..
 

darkbreeze

Admirable
Moderator
Yes, I understand. Been there before. If it seemed fine when it wasn't gaming then hopefully it's ok. If the previous owner was using it to game with that adapter though, who knows. It's also possible that the original adapter failed and created a problem that they tried to rectify by using that one, which is about the worst thing they could have done. Fingers crossed is all you can do.

Does the unit run normally on battery power with no adapter connected?
 

jacob_174

Prominent
Mar 3, 2017
12
0
560
0


Fingers crossed X, and yeah it works perfectly fine without the adapter plugged in. Surprisingly has a long battery life.. But the only thing is when playing games on just the battery, the gpu downclocks to 1/5th of full speed, but I assume this is normal? to save battery life or something?
 

darkbreeze

Admirable
Moderator
Yeah, but that depends on the power profile.

Go into the control panel power options. Set it to the performance profile. Then click on change plan settings next to the performance profile. Then click on change advanced power settings. Then open processor power management and on BOTH the "on battery" and "plugged in" sections change the minimum processor power states to 8% and the maximum to 100%. Save settings and exit.
 

jacob_174

Prominent
Mar 3, 2017
12
0
560
0


just tried that, but it's still downclocking its self to 200-300mhz on the core and 800mhz on the memory. its so weird... i'm assuming its some sort of safe guard and not caused by the power adapter damaging the gpu or something ..
 

darkbreeze

Admirable
Moderator
Please download HWinfo. Install it, then open it and when prompted choose "Sensors only". WITH HWinfo open, open any game or other applications your are having problems with and then scroll down to the section of the HWinfo sensors where the CPU core temps are listed. Take a screenshot and post that. Then scroll down to where it says "Thermal throttling" and take another screenshot. Post that.

Click the spoiler box below for instructions on how to do this.

HWmonitor, Open hardware monitor, Realtemp, Speccy, Speedfan, Windows utilities, CPU-Z, NZXT CAM and most of the bundled motherboard utilities are often not the best choice as they are not always accurate. Some are actually grossly inaccurate, especially with certain chipsets or specific sensors that for whatever reason they tend to not like or work well with. I've found HWinfo or CoreTemp to be the MOST accurate with the broadest range of chipsets and sensors. They are also almost religiously kept up to date.

CoreTemp is great for just CPU thermals including core temps or distance to TJmax on AMD platforms.

HWinfo is great for pretty much EVERYTHING, including CPU thermals, core loads, core temps, package temps, GPU sensors, HDD and SSD sensors, motherboard chipset and VRM sensor, all of it. Always select the "Sensors only" option when running HWinfo.

In cases where it is relevant and you are seeking help, then in order to help you, it's often necessary to SEE what's going on, in the event one of us can pick something out that seems out of place, or other indicators that just can't be communicated via a text only post. In these cases, posting an image of the HWinfo sensors or something else can be extremely helpful. That may not be the case in YOUR thread, but if it is then the information at the following link will show you how to do that:

*How to post images in Tom's hardware forums



Run HWinfo and look at system voltages and other sensor readings.

Monitoring temperatures, core speeds, voltages, clock ratios and other reported sensor data can often help to pick out an issue right off the bat. HWinfo is a good way to get that data and in my experience tends to be more accurate than some of the other utilities available. CPU-Z, GPU-Z and Core Temp all have their uses but HWinfo tends to have it all laid out in a more convenient fashion so you can usually see what one sensor is reporting while looking at another instead of having to flip through various tabs that have specific groupings.

After installation, run the utility and when asked, choose "sensors only". The other window options have some use but in most cases everything you need will be located in the sensors window. If you're taking screenshots to post for troubleshooting, it will most likely require taking three screenshots and scrolling down the sensors window between screenshots in order to capture them all.

It is most helpful if you can take a series of HWinfo screenshots at idle, after a cold boot to the desktop. Open HWinfo and wait for all of the Windows startup processes to complete. Usually about four or five minutes should be plenty. Take screenshots of all the HWinfo sensors.

Next, run something demanding like Prime95 version 26.6 or Heaven benchmark. Take another set of screenshots while either of those is running so we can see what the hardware is doing while under a load.

*Download HWinfo


For temperature monitoring only, I feel Core Temp is the most accurate and also offers a quick visual reference for core speed, load and CPU voltage:

*Download Core Temp

"IF" temperature issues are relevant to your problem, especially if this is a build that has been running for a year or more, taking care of the basics first might save everybody involved a lot of time and frustration.

Check the CPU fan heatsink for dust accumulation and blow or clean out as necessary. Avoid using a vacuum if possible as vacuums are known to create static electricity that can, in some cases, zap small components.

Other areas that may benefit from a cleaning include fans, power supply internals, storage and optical drives, the motherboard surfaces and RAM. Keeping the inside of your rig clean is a high priority and should be done on a regular basis using 90 psi or lower compressed air from a compressor or compressed canned air.

Use common sense based on what PSU your compressor is set to. Don't "blast" your motherboard or hardware to pieces. Start from an adequate distance until you can judge what is enough to just get the job done. When using canned air use only short blasts moving from place to place frequently to avoid "frosting" components.
 

jacob_174

Prominent
Mar 3, 2017
12
0
560
0



I couldn't find the thermal throttling section.. heres a link to the screenshot .. https://imgur.com/mWAB2RJ
 

darkbreeze

Admirable
Moderator
That's because you did not follow the instructions I posted, and you downloaded HWmonitor, not HWinfo. Read the spoiler box information again and you'll see that I SPECIFICALLY recommend NOT using HWmonitor because it is a pile of garbage.

Also, when you DO use HWinfo, you MUST choose the "sensors only" option when you open it after installation. The summary section won't tell you crap.
 

jacob_174

Prominent
Mar 3, 2017
12
0
560
0


sorry about that here are the new links..

https://imgur.com/a/9HyLmAq
https://imgur.com/a/o0NOvam
 

darkbreeze

Admirable
Moderator
I don't see any indications of thermal throttling there, however, I DO see that the package and one of the single core temperatures has exceeded the maximum recommended temperature of 80C, which is a problem. I'd say the system has been abused previously but it could simply be the fact that the CPU cooler needs to have the thermal paste changed or that it's fan has become weak.

Usually, on used units that are seeing above spec temperatures, it's because somebody has abused them by running them hard while gaming for extended periods or has managed to block the air intake vents in the bottom by laying the unit on their lap, on carpet, on blankets/bed clothes or in some other way managed to block the cooler vent from taking in fresh air and has caused thermal damage to the CPU or motherboard.

No Intel CPU should EVER exceed 80C under normal operating conditions, especially if it's not overclocked. This should be especially true on low thermal design power laptop cpus.

Sorry, but I think you got a bad laptop and I'd take it back if possible. I might however wait to see if the adapter makes any difference because it's possible that the system is not able to provide the CPU cooling fan with enough power to run it at it's normal maximum. I'm not convinced that is the case however since it's a single core that is so hot, rather than all cores across the board. I think the CPU has been damaged.
 

jacob_174

Prominent
Mar 3, 2017
12
0
560
0


Thanks for the help, but I don't think I agree with you about the CPU temps. I believe 80-85c on the cpu is normal for gaming on a laptop.. plus the thermal limit on this cpu is 96c from what I found on google.. But I guess i'll just have to wait and see if the new power supply will correct the rest of the problems I've been having mainly the video card severely downclocking it self when gaming..

 

darkbreeze

Admirable
Moderator
No, it's not even remotely "normal". You need to educate yourself before making such assumptions.

Core temperature is the standard for processor thermal measurement.

Intel's specification for DTS accuracy is +/- 5°C. Although sensors are factory calibrated, deviations between the highest and lowest Cores can be up to 10°C. Sensors tend to be more accurate at high temperatures, but due to calibration issues such as linearity, slope and range, idle temperatures may not be very accurate.

Core temperatures respond instantly to changes in load.

Intel’s specification for DTS response time is 256 milliseconds, or about 1/4th of a second. Since Windows has dozens of Processes and Services running in the background, it’s normal to see rapid and random Core temperature “spikes” or fluctuations, especially during the first few minutes after startup. Any software activity will show some percentage of CPU Utilization in Windows Task Manager, where unnecessary Tray items, Startups, Processes and Services that contribute to excessive spiking can be disabled. For details see Section 13, Note 1.

Here's the nominal operating range for Core temperature:

Core temperatures above 85°C are not recommended.

Core temperatures below 80°C are ideal.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1800828/intel-temperature-guide.html

And when he says that core temperatures of 80°C or lower are ideal, he means WHILE RUNNING a stress test like Prime95 version 26.6 Small FFT.

He does not mean while gaming or running normal applications. You should never see temps above maybe 70 degrees on ANY Intel processor that is not overclocked. Ever. At all. Period.

If you had even the least idea what the problem was, what temperature your processor should be running at or what you should be looking for, you wouldn't be here posting questions. That is simply a fact. You come here for answers from people who know what they are talking about, but then when you don't like the answers, you cry foul and say they are wrong. So whatever. I couldn't care less if you don't want to listen, but at least don't try to pretend that the information is not accurate.
 

jacob_174

Prominent
Mar 3, 2017
12
0
560
0


I didn't mean to trigger you, I was just simply disagreeing with you about the cpu temp which I wasn't even asking help for in the first place. cya.
 

darkbreeze

Admirable
Moderator
Yeah, good luck. The fact that you weren't looking for help with your temps doesn't change the fact that your temps are an issue, and MIGHT even be your core issue. Regardless, hopefully you find a solution that is agreeable to you but I seriously doubt it.

CPUs with stock configurations don't reach above 80 degrees unless something is wrong.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
S Laptop General Discussion 0
C Laptop General Discussion 1
J Laptop General Discussion 5
D Laptop General Discussion 3
R Laptop General Discussion 5
M Laptop General Discussion 2
M Laptop General Discussion 1
F Laptop General Discussion 1
T Laptop General Discussion 2
V Laptop General Discussion 1
S Laptop General Discussion 3
S Laptop General Discussion 3
E Laptop General Discussion 4
G Laptop General Discussion 3
N Laptop General Discussion 1
A Laptop General Discussion 6
N Laptop General Discussion 4
F Laptop General Discussion 3
R Laptop General Discussion 3
K Laptop General Discussion 1

Similar threads


ASK THE COMMUNITY