Sony Repair Suggestions

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On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 09:04:19 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
<williams@nwlink.com> wrote:

>> Where does this law apply? I doubt it's a matter for international law
>
>WITHIN THE UNITED STATES. Where ELSE would I be talking about? Good grief.

Oh dear

This Internet thing, it's global you know.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

California was one state which dictated a 7-year parts availability.
Unfortunately NAFTA, GATT, etc have superceded these state laws.

Sony's current repair policy, as distinguished from their long-term parts
availability policy, is that they will service products at a flat rate for 7
years, assuming no physical damage, severe abuse, botched service attempts,
etc.

Beyond the 7 years, they will service it on a "time and materials" basis,
assuming parts are available.

The fly in this ointment is that they often no longer have anyone on staff
familiar with the old product. Very often, and I say this because I have
seen it personally, they will simply identify a part no longer available for
that model, then say, that's what it needs, sorry, can't fix it, would you
like the piece back for the minimum charge? Even though the part specified
had NOTHING to do with the stated complaint. For example a mechanical part
when the symptom was static in the sound.

So you've just gone to the trouble of packing, shipping, insuring, waiting,
etc only to find they never even gave a good-faith effort toward fixing the
piece.

Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.


"Laurence Payne" <l@laurenceDELETEpayne.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:0mtn80544p866jtnjiu2u92v0mfuc26mhn@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 09:04:19 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
> <williams@nwlink.com> wrote:
>
> >> Where does this law apply? I doubt it's a matter for international law

> >
> >WITHIN THE UNITED STATES. Where ELSE would I be talking about? Good
grief.
>
> Oh dear
>
> This Internet thing, it's global you know.

 

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On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:18:39 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote
(in message <108m7trfbb0etd7@corp.supernews.com>):

> If so, this is a break with Sony's policy. I had been told by the head of
> their parts division that they never threw out parts.
>--------------------------------snip----------------------------------<

Oh, I never said they were going to THROW the parts AWAY. Just that they're
not going to go out of their way to maintain a large stock of parts anymore.

The theory is that they're going to start replacing more boards (if not
entire products) rather than do a lot of board-level repair anymore. Again,
this is all hearsay, and I haven't gotten confirmation about it. But it's in
keeping with Sony closing more and more of their factory-owned service
centers. For example, there's no more Sony consumer factory service in LA --
a city of 10 million people. Pretty startling.

--MFW

 

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"Marc Wielage" <mfw@musictrax.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BCB1DB0700808952F05095B0@news-server.socal.rr.com...
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 19:18:39 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote
> (in message <108m7trfbb0etd7@corp.supernews.com>):
>
> > If so, this is a break with Sony's policy. I had been told by the head
of
> > their parts division that they never threw out parts.
> >--------------------------------snip----------------------------------<
>
> Oh, I never said they were going to THROW the parts AWAY. Just that
they're
> not going to go out of their way to maintain a large stock of parts
anymore.
>
> The theory is that they're going to start replacing more boards (if not
> entire products) rather than do a lot of board-level repair anymore.
Again,
> this is all hearsay, and I haven't gotten confirmation about it. But it's
in
> keeping with Sony closing more and more of their factory-owned service
> centers. For example, there's no more Sony consumer factory service in
LA --
> a city of 10 million people. Pretty startling.
>
> --MFW
>
For many years Sony and most other manufacturers have had independent
authorized service centers for warranty and non-warranty repairs run by
independent electronics service companies. Check your yellow pages for
details.

In the past, these independent survive companies existed in almost every
medium size or larger city, but there is a trend (on the part of consumers)
toward not repairing mid-level consumer equipment because of large scale
integrated assemblies, the high labor cost involved, the rapid rate of
technological obsolescence, and the declining cost of new replacement
products.

I don't think Sony is any worse than other manufacturers, and in most
respects they are better than most.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

> The theory is that they're going to start replacing more boards (if
> not entire products) rather than do a lot of board-level repair anymore.
> Again, this is all hearsay, and I haven't gotten confirmation about it.
> But it's in keeping with Sony closing more and more of their factory-
> owned service centers. For example, there's no more Sony consumer
> factory service in LA -- a city of 10 million people. Pretty startling.

I've sent e-mail to a friend at Sony. Hopefully, she'll let us know in a few
days.

Seattle -- not a small city, either -- lost its Sony factory-service shop about
a year ago. Their charges were not especially attractive (whose are?), and in
one case I had to lecture the manager about how a dictation machine should be
repaired. (It turned out their diagnosis was wrong and mine was right. Oddly,
they performed the repair at no charge.)

 

[Gman]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

In article <InQic.339$KR6.11516@news.uswest.net>, "Mark A" <ma@switchboard.net> wrote:
>"William Sommerwerck" <williams@nwlink.com> wrote in message
>news:108nib2b85ngk51@corp.supernews.com...
>> >> A few years back, manufacturers were legally obliged to stock
>> >> electrical parts for 10 years, mechanical for 7, and cosmetic
>> >> for 5 (or was it 3?). What the law currently is, I don't know.
>>
>> > What jurisdiction is that? Is that federal, state (which state)?
>>
>> Federal.
>>
>>
>> > What if a company goes out of business?
>>
>> There would be no entity the law could be enforced against.
>>
>>
>> > Do you have a reference?
>>
>> No, but the head of Sony parts confirmed this seven or eight years ago.
>
>Are you sure he wasn't talking about company policy? I have never heard of
>such a thing, unless it is during the warranty period. What kind of products
>does this cover?
>
>
I am pretty sure this 7 year law is out there since i remember reading up on
it years ago too. Its a federal law and i beleive the original purpose whas to
make sure OTC parts were available for a set amount of time for military
resupply.\

 

[Gman]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

In article <1ORic.340$KR6.20403@news.uswest.net>, "Mark A" <ma@switchboard.net> wrote:
>"William Sommerwerck" <williams@nwlink.com> wrote in message
>news:108nmk8ccd11j50@corp.supernews.com...
>> >>> Do you have a reference?
>>
>> >> No, but the head of Sony parts confirmed this seven or eight years ago.
>>
>> > Are you sure he wasn't talking about company policy? I have never
>> > heard of such a thing, unless it is during the warranty period. What
>> > kinds of products does this cover?
>>
>> AFAIK, it's the law. It covers just about everything. Manufacturers are
>not
>> allowed to immediately "abandon" discontinued products.
>>
>> Some years ago Sony told me they would not repair items more than ten
>years
>> after their official discontinuance, even if they had the parts. I
>wouldn't be
>> surprised if that interval were now down to seven, or even five years.
>>
>> Sony is like most Japanese companies doing business in the US. They aren't
>much
>> interested in long-term customer satisfaction, especially when it comes to
>> supplying reasonably priced service parts.
>>
>> If you like, I'll ask the "parts honcha" at Sony exactly what current
>policy is.
>>
>I searched the FTC site. which regulates warranties in the USA. I did not
>find anything about stocking parts. I would bet you big money that what you
>think is a law, is really just Sony internal policy.

I am pretty sure i have seen this 7 year law out there too.



>
>Actually, manufacturers are not required by law to stock any parts so long
>as they honor the warranty. They have the right to just send you a new or
>factory refurbed unit instead of replacing a bad part. Manufacturers are not
>required to perform any repairs or parts past the warranty period.
>
>I am not sure why you think Sony is not interested in long term customer
>satisfaction. Generally Japanese firms are much more interested in customer
>satisfaction than US firms, because for one reason, there is much less
>emphasis on quarterly earnings in Japan.
>
>I recently got a quote from Sony for repairing a computer monitor that is 7
>years old. Like all their non-warranty repairs, they charge a flat fee
>regardless of the problem. I decided not to do it because of the 2-way
>shipping charges for the 75 lb monitor were fairly high and I didn't have
>the original shipping box.
>
>

 

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Mark A <ma@switchboard.net> wrote:

> For many years Sony and most other manufacturers have had independent
> authorized service centers for warranty and non-warranty repairs run by
> independent electronics service companies. Check your yellow pages for
> details.
>
> In the past, these independent survive companies existed in almost every
> medium size or larger city, but there is a trend (on the part of consumers)
> toward not repairing mid-level consumer equipment because of large scale
> integrated assemblies, the high labor cost involved, the rapid rate of
> technological obsolescence, and the declining cost of new replacement
> products.

And the bad experiences Sony customers have had with authorized service
centers. I took a Sony VCR to three different authorized shops when it
started creasing tapes after only two years of moderate use. None of
these authorized service centers was able to make repairs that stuck for
more than a few weeks, even after lengthy stays in the shop -- and I was
always the one who had to keep calling to find out when the VCR would be
ready.


> I don't think Sony is any worse than other manufacturers, and in most
> respects they are better than most.

But the reliability of mid-level Sony consumer products has declined
more rapidly than other brands in the past ten years, to the point that
it is now worse than average.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

> > Are you sure he wasn't talking about company policy? I have never
> > heard of such a thing, unless it is during the warranty period. What
> > kinds of products does this cover?
>
> AFAIK, it's the law. It covers just about everything. Manufacturers are not
> allowed to immediately "abandon" discontinued products.

Cite what law requires this. While it may seem like a fine idea I seriously
doubt there's legislation worded to require it.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

>> AFAIK, it's the law. It covers just about everything. Manufacturers are not
>> allowed to immediately "abandon" discontinued products.

> Cite what law requires this. While it may seem like a fine idea I seriously
> doubt there's legislation worded to require it.

I posted an answer at least a week ago.

It appears there is no Federal law, but many states require manufacturers to at
least provide some "satisfactory" solution to service problems for a period of
time after a product is discontinued.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

> > Cite what law requires this. While it may seem like a fine idea I
seriously
> > doubt there's legislation worded to require it.
>
> I posted an answer at least a week ago.
>
> It appears there is no Federal law, but many states require manufacturers
to at
> least provide some "satisfactory" solution to service problems for a
period of
> time after a product is discontinued.
>

That is so vague that it is unenforceable, unless you are talking about
products that are covered under warranty or extended service contracts.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

>> It appears there is no Federal law, but many states require manufacturers
>> to at least provide some "satisfactory" solution to service problems for a
>> period of time after a product is discontinued.

> That is so vague that it is unenforceable, unless you are talking about
> products that are covered under warranty or extended service contracts.

This is what I was told by my friend at Sony, who heads the parts department.

According to her, the period of time is 7 years in California.

Virtually all products are implicitly covered by the common-law implied warranty
of merchantability. Enforcing it is difficult, and it appears that many state
laws have chipped away at it over the years.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

> I am pretty sure this 7 year law is out there since i remember reading up on
> it years ago too. Its a federal law and i beleive the original purpose whas to
> make sure OTC parts were available for a set amount of time for military
> resupply.

Then that would be covered under the contract the supplier had with the GSA.
It's unlikely that legislation is involved. If so, please cite the code
section.

 

[INFO]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 04:47:47 GMT, "Peter" <p_ullman@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

>Sony Factory Service refused to repair my 1991 top-of-the-line CDP-X777ES CD
>player because they claim they have no parts anymore, this despite the fact
>that over the phone they had assured me that they did indeed have parts for
>the CD Player and based on that I had sent it to their San Diego,
>California, Service Center. The problem is that the CD Player refuses to
>recognize a few new CDs that are playable on all other CD Players. It plays
>about 300 other CDs without any problems.

Sony service are way too expensive anyway.

>
>Hence I am wondering if anyone might know of a very "reputable" and
>"reliable" repair service that would be willing to help me? I do not care
>where it might be within the USA.
>
>Thanks in advance for your possible recommendations.
>
>

 

[Gman]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

In article <109hssu6co6evaa@corp.supernews.com>, "William Sommerwerck" <williams@nwlink.com> wrote:
>>> It appears there is no Federal law, but many states require manufacturers
>>> to at least provide some "satisfactory" solution to service problems for a
>>> period of time after a product is discontinued.
>
>> That is so vague that it is unenforceable, unless you are talking about
>> products that are covered under warranty or extended service contracts.
>
>This is what I was told by my friend at Sony, who heads the parts department.
>
>According to her, the period of time is 7 years in California.
>
>Virtually all products are implicitly covered by the common-law implied
> warranty
>of merchantability. Enforcing it is difficult, and it appears that many state
>laws have chipped away at it over the years.
>
I do know for sure that anything sold to Government or US Military under
contract requires a certain amount of parts availability.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

> >
> I do know for sure that anything sold to Government or US Military under
> contract requires a certain amount of parts availability.
>
That is not by federal law, but by specification in the contract. It then
becomes a matter of contract law between two parties.

 

[Guest]

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On Wed, 5 May 2004 05:47:58 -0700, "William Sommerwerck"
<williams@nwlink.com> wrote:

>
>It appears there is no Federal law,

And certainly no international one.

 

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On Wed, 5 May 2004 7:00:20 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote
(in message <109hssu6co6evaa@corp.supernews.com>):

> This is what I was told by my friend at Sony, who heads the parts department.

> According to her, the period of time is 7 years in California.
>--------------------------------snip----------------------------------<

Bill, did you ask her about the rumor that Sony is about to let a lot of
parts (almost a million dollars' worth) go out of stock? That's what we
heard, and also that somebody has determined that it's easier for them to
just replace units outright, rather than spend the money for a service person
to repair them.

If nothing else, this would help explain the rash of Sony factory service
centers that have recently been closed all over North America.

--MFW

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.misc (More info?)

>> This is what I was told by my friend at Sony, who heads the parts department.
>> According to her, the period of time is 7 years in California.

> Bill, did you ask her about the rumor that Sony is about to let
> a lot of parts (almost a million dollars' worth) go out of stock?
> That's what we heard, and also that somebody has determined
> that it's easier for them to just replace units outright, rather than
> spend the money for a service person to repair them.

No, I forgot to.

Considering how grossly overpriced Sony parts tend to be, $1M worth isn't that
much.

The question of "replacement versus repair" would seem to depend on the item's
price. For cheap items -- and especially considering Sony's virtually
non-existent warranty on them -- in-warranty replacement would seem to be a good
idea.

This approach also assumes owners are almost always going to throw away a
broken-but-out-of-warranty $50 Discman, rather than have it repaired.

I don't see how it can be economically advantageous to replace expensive
products rather than fix them, especially when a lot of such repairs could be
handled (relatively) quickly with a board replacement.

By the way, GE used to handle warranty repairs by swapping for a reconditioned
unit of the same model. The customer got a prompt "repair," and the technicians
could work on a half-dozen of a given model at the same time, which ought to be
quite efficient.


> If nothing else, this would help explain the rash of Sony factory service
> centers that have recently been closed all over North America.

It might, but not all of them closed. Of course, electronic service shops in
general are closing.