Strong Ammunition!!

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Bob Miller (robmx@earthlink.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> > Thus, neither France or China have HDTV. France has satellite delivery of
> > HD, but, then, so does the US.
>
> Very weird, France doesn't and France does.

France doesn't have HDTV, but they have satellite HD. Can't you understand
the difference. TV = OTA TV.

> > Yeah, we use that same old nasty MPEG-2 that the UK, Australia, Berlin, etc.,
> > all use, and must continue to use to keep all those "millions" of current
> > STBs working correctly.
> >
>
> Yes but the point I was making is that the US has a unique opportunity
> to move up to MPEG4

So, Bob, are you going to volunteer to pay for all those replacement
receivers? Remember, despite the "sad state of DTV" in the US, we still
have more OTA digital receivers in the hands of consumers than any
other country in the world.

> and while we are at it go to the most advanced
> modulation at the same time.

Luckily we already have that.

> We could switch to COFDM at that moment instead of 8-VSB, buy COFDM
> receivers for $40

There are no $40 COFDM HDTV receivers, and there never will be.

But, then, that's your plan: to get non-HD receivers to everyone in the
US so that every TV station will have lots of bits to spare for your
lame-brained advertising schemes.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http/www.nabs.net/Cartoons/PaperOrPlastic.gif

 

[aztech]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

"Mark Crispin" <mrc@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote in message
newsine.LNX.4.63.0502141035180.13442@shiva1.cac.washington.edu...
> On Mon, 14 Feb 2005, Bob Miller wrote:
>> On the other hand this cements the US in as a 2nd world country. It would be
>> far better to scrap both 8-VSB and MPEG2 and follow the French or Chinese
>> into an MPEG4 AVC DMB-T or DVB-T world.
>
> Q: How much over-the-air HDTV is there in France or Red China today?

Red? Yeah right.

"To get rich is glorious"
- Deng Xiaoping

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Jeff Rife wrote:

> Bob Miller (robmx@earthlink.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>
>>>Thus, neither France or China have HDTV. France has satellite delivery of
>>>HD, but, then, so does the US.
>>
>>Very weird, France doesn't and France does.
>
>
> France doesn't have HDTV, but they have satellite HD. Can't you understand
> the difference. TV = OTA TV.
>
First I have heard of this one.
>
>>>Yeah, we use that same old nasty MPEG-2 that the UK, Australia, Berlin, etc.,
>>>all use, and must continue to use to keep all those "millions" of current
>>>STBs working correctly.
>>>
>>
>>Yes but the point I was making is that the US has a unique opportunity
>>to move up to MPEG4
>
>
> So, Bob, are you going to volunteer to pay for all those replacement
> receivers? Remember, despite the "sad state of DTV" in the US, we still
> have more OTA digital receivers in the hands of consumers than any
> other country in the world.

And how many is that? And where do you get your figures? More than the 6
million in the UK? Do we have as many integrated sets as say Japan at
over 2 million? Japan has sold those 2 million sets in just the last
year. I can only imagine what they will sell this year. And the UK is
set to sell 6 million more receivers this year. I don't know what Italy
is doing but they were sold out last I looked.

These countries and others such as China are about to blow by the US.
The only way we can keep up is to have more Congressional Hearing and
decide that the mandate was not enough, we are going to have to give
away 10's of millions of receivers.

Bob Miller
>
>
>> and while we are at it go to the most advanced
>>modulation at the same time.
>
>
> Luckily we already have that.
>
>
>>We could switch to COFDM at that moment instead of 8-VSB, buy COFDM
>>receivers for $40
>
>
> There are no $40 COFDM HDTV receivers, and there never will be.
>
> But, then, that's your plan: to get non-HD receivers to everyone in the
> US so that every TV station will have lots of bits to spare for your
> lame-brained advertising schemes.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Jeff Rife wrote:
> Bob Miller (robmx@earthlink.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> > > Thus, neither France or China have HDTV. France has satellite
delivery of
> > > HD, but, then, so does the US.
> >
> > Very weird, France doesn't and France does.
>
> France doesn't have HDTV, but they have satellite HD. Can't you
understand
> the difference. TV = OTA TV.

Yeah but Jeff, if BOB acknowledged that then he wouldn't be misleading
the people. BOB thrives on misleading people. BOB thrives on lies,
distortions and embellishments. The 'man' is just beyond comprehension.
He is one very sick individual.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

On Tue, 15 Feb 2005, Jeff Rife wrote:
> So, Bob, are you going to volunteer to pay for all those replacement
> receivers? Remember, despite the "sad state of DTV" in the US, we still
> have more OTA digital receivers in the hands of consumers than any
> other country in the world.

I hope that people are collecting these Bob Miller posts and forwarding
them to the FCC. It is difficult to think of a better way to discredit
Bob Miller than to use his own words.

>> We could switch to COFDM at that moment instead of 8-VSB, buy COFDM
>> receivers for $40
> There are no $40 COFDM HDTV receivers, and there never will be.

Even a COFDM radio receiver costs at least $80.

Part of the problem with Psycho Bob's rants is that there is no
recompense available for those who fall victim to the rants. He simply
does not have the assets.

> But, then, that's your plan: to get non-HD receivers to everyone in the
> US so that every TV station will have lots of bits to spare for your
> lame-brained advertising schemes.

The more of Psycho Bob's rants that we forward to the FCC, the less likely
that this will come to pass. We must make it clear and obvious that
Psycho Bob is a crackpot.

-- Mark --

http/staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005, Bob Miller wrote:
>> France doesn't have HDTV, but they have satellite HD. Can't you understand
>> the difference. TV = OTA TV.
> First I have heard of this one.

More accurately, Psycho Bob resorts to his trick of pretending ignorance
or a confusion in terminology when he is caught in a lie.

I expect that in the not too distant future, I will be able to prove
Psycho Bob's lies about OTA digital TV in Japan. Remember, Psycho Bob has
stated, with certainty, that OTA digital TV will be in cars and in cell
phones in Japan this year.

> Do we have as many integrated sets as say Japan at over 2
> million? Japan has sold those 2 million sets in just the last year.

Most of those sets do not receive OTA digital TV, for the simple fact that
the customers are not in the service area. Rather, they have satellite
and/or cable. An OTA digital tuner is just another feature of the TV that
they don't use.

Japan's government does not allow people like Psycho Bob to spread FUD
about a government broadcast decision. In Japan, people like Psycho Bob
are visited by men who are missing part of one finger.

If we had the Japanese system here, Psycho Bob would be feeding the fishes
in the East River wearing his cement shoes, and TV manufacturers would
have been required to include ATSC tuners since 2000.

Nor would there be any talk of other systems. NHK decides, everybody else
follows.

> These countries and others such as China are about to blow by the US.

Yet another bogus Psycho Bob prediction. In Psycho Bob's language, "are
about to blow by" means "haven't done anything yet to match."

This is so familiar of the stupid 1970s "PAL rules, NTSC drools" flames of
the Psycho Bobs of that time. Never mind that solid state circuitry had
made "never twice same color" a dated joke, and that PAL's phase shift had
ceased to be a benefit and was now a liability.

-- Mark --

http/staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Mark Crispin wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Feb 2005, Bob Miller wrote:
>
>>> France doesn't have HDTV, but they have satellite HD. Can't you
>>> understand
>>> the difference. TV = OTA TV.
>>
>> First I have heard of this one.
>
>
> More accurately, Psycho Bob resorts to his trick of pretending ignorance
> or a confusion in terminology when he is caught in a lie.

Not pretending ignorance just politely trying to point out the absurdity
in suggesting that HDTV only refers to OTA TV. Now it seems Mark has
bought into this definition also. HDTV applies to cable satellite or
broadcast "TV". In all three cases TV is broadcast. HDTV is just a
particular set of resolutions. INSANE SEMANTICS we could call it.
>
> I expect that in the not too distant future, I will be able to prove Psycho Bob's lies about OTA digital TV in Japan. Remember, Psycho Bob
> has stated, with certainty, that OTA digital TV will be in cars and in cell phones in Japan this year.

It is good to hear that Mark is going to finally be able to come up with
hard evidence that there is not going to be any cell phone DTV this
year. Of course his take was that cell phone DTV was a myth everywhere.
My prediction is we will have ubiquitous cell phone DTV in the world
including the US over the next few years with Japan and Korea being the
first. I guess Mark is trying to make the prediction JUST JAPAN and JUST
THIS YEAR. OK Japan will have DTV OTA cell phones this year and if not I
lose but in any event if not this year as PR reports suggest then soon
after like the first quarter of next year. Big deal. In the meantime
look at my next post "Bitty Witty OTA DTV Receivers" (REALLY NEAT
STUFF!!). It gives more details.
>
>> Do we have as many integrated sets as say Japan at over 2 million? Japan has sold those 2 million sets in just the last year.
>
>
> Most of those sets do not receive OTA digital TV, for the simple fact that the customers are not in the service area. Rather, they have
> satellite and/or cable. An OTA digital tuner is just another feature of the TV that they don't use.

ALL of these sets sold with OTA DTV receivers are bought as an option
that the customer chooses. A customer could make the informed decision
that they want a digital TV that will be capable of receiving digital
terrestrial signals EVEN if they are not at present being broadcast in
their area. They could for instance look at the map of coverage now and
anticipated and see how long they might have to wait. But all these OTA
equipped TV sets are being sold with OTA because the customer wants that
feature. READ THE SITE!!!

http/www.dibeg.org/news/news-3/news-e3.htm
"Digital terrestrial TVs accounted for 7.5% of CRT sets (up 1.0
percentage points from the previous month) and 96.8% of PDP sets (up 1.3
percentage points), with a figure of 47.3% for LCD sets (up 6.2
percentage points), indicating that digital terrestrial sets are
becoming an increasingly popular option in flat panel TVs."

Notice that NOT all TV sets sold include OTA receivers. People have to
ask for it and then pay for it. NOT SO IN THE US where you must pay for
it even if you are one of the 85% of viewers who don't need it.

The month before they said.... NOTICE STATEMENT " increasing popularity
of terrestrial digital sets among flat panel TV buyers" This suggest
they may have free will in Japan something we have lost here at home
with our MANDATE!!

"Terrestrial digital TVs accounted for 7.4% of CRT sets (no change from
the previous month) and 95.5% of PDP sets (up 0.2 points). Terrestrial
digital TVs accounted for 41.1% of LCD sets (up 5.8 points), indicating
the increasing popularity of terrestrial digital sets among flat panel
TV buyers."
>
> Japan's government does not allow people like Psycho Bob to spread FUD about a government broadcast decision. In Japan, people like Psycho Bob
> are visited by men who are missing part of one finger.

Maybe Mark could list just ONE source for his BS do ya think? He just
talks about proving me wrong in the future. Never any backup.
>
> If we had the Japanese system here, Psycho Bob would be feeding the fishes in the East River wearing his cement shoes, and TV manufacturers
> would have been required to include ATSC tuners since 2000.
>
> Nor would there be any talk of other systems. NHK decides, everybody
> else follows.

OK Mark we will listen to the gospel according to Mark and NHK.

The sites I quote are from an organization called Dibeg which describes
themselves as .... (NHK is a member and two of Dibeg's top leaders are
executives of NHK)

http/www.dibeg.org/
The Digital Broadcasting Experts Group (DiBEG) was founded in September
1997 to promote ISDB-T, the Japanese Digital Terrestrial Broadcasting
System, in the world. And also, DiBEG promotes exchange of technical
information and international cooperation to facilitate common
understanding in the world and smooth exchange of programs in digital era.

Vice-chairman : Shigeki Moriyama ( Japan Broadcasting Corporation(NHK) )
Document working group Director : Dr. Hiroo Arata ( Japan
Broadcasting Corporation(NHK) )

http/www.dibeg.org/aboutus/maine.htm

READ THE SITE make up your own mind. It looks like numerous entities are
talking to the Japanese viewer about HDTV and OTA broadcasting.

Here is a map of the Japanese OTA rollout
http/www.dibeg.org/news/news-3/DiBEG%20NEWS45-E.pdf

So Mark why is the Japanese Government allowing this Dibeg to promote
all this FUD??

Bob Miller
>
>> These countries and others such as China are about to blow by the US.
>
> Yet another bogus Psycho Bob prediction. In Psycho Bob's language, "are about to blow by" means "haven't done anything yet to match."
>
> This is so familiar of the stupid 1970s "PAL rules, NTSC drools" flames of the Psycho Bobs of that time. Never mind that solid state circuitry
> had made "never twice same color" a dated joke, and that PAL's phase shift had ceased to be a benefit and was now a liability.
>
> -- Mark --
>
> http/staff.washington.edu/mrc
> Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
> Si vis pacem, para bellum.

 

[David]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Mark Crispin" <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote

> I expect that in the not too distant future, I will be able to prove
> Psycho Bob's lies about OTA digital TV in Japan.

It would be interesting if you could translate any Japanese DTV forums. I'd
bet anything they're
overflowing with impulse noise/interference complaints, just like the
British and
(to a somewhat lesser extent) Australian forums have been.

Actually, German DTV forums would be interesting too.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

David wrote:
> "Mark Crispin" <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote
>
> > I expect that in the not too distant future, I will be able to
prove
> > Psycho Bob's lies about OTA digital TV in Japan.
>
> It would be interesting if you could translate any Japanese DTV
forums. I'd
> bet anything they're
> overflowing with impulse noise/interference complaints, just like the

> British and
> (to a somewhat lesser extent) Australian forums have been.
>
> Actually, German DTV forums would be interesting too.


Ah, but David, those posts would be discarded by BOB as "irrelevant" or
simply like he does with all of the POSITIVE posts right here about
8VSB "they don't exist". It's a strange delusional world this guy lives
in.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

David wrote:
> "Mark Crispin" <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote
>
>
>>I expect that in the not too distant future, I will be able to prove
>>Psycho Bob's lies about OTA digital TV in Japan.
>
>
> It would be interesting if you could translate any Japanese DTV forums. I'd
> bet anything they're
> overflowing with impulse noise/interference complaints, just like the
> British and
> (to a somewhat lesser extent) Australian forums have been.
>
> Actually, German DTV forums would be interesting too.
>
>
Good idea. Let those who want to check out these forums to see if they
are "overflowing with impulse noise/interference complaints" like you
say they are.

UK
http/forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/index.php
http/forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=13

Germany forum
http/forum.digitalfernsehen.de/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=50

and info on Berlin...
http/www.ueberall-tv.de/
http/www.ueberall-tv.de/reg_BB/1BBstart/BB_start.htm
http/www.garv.de/dvb_t.htm

info on North Germany
http/www.dvb-t-nord.de/

info on Nordrhein-Westfalen
http/nrw.ueberallfernsehen.de/start.html

info on Rhein-Main Gebiet
http/www.hr-online.de/website/extern/ueberallfernsehen/index.jsp

info on Bavaria..
http/www.dvb-t-bayern.de/

info on middle Germany
http/www.dvbt-mitteldeutschland.de/

Info on Australia..
http/www.dba.org.au/

Forums on Australia
aus.tv
aus.tv.digital
http/www.dtvforum.info/

 

[David]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:z_5Rd.2659$IU.141@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> David wrote:
>> "Mark Crispin" <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU> wrote
>>
>>
>>>I expect that in the not too distant future, I will be able to prove
>>>Psycho Bob's lies about OTA digital TV in Japan.
>>
>>
>> It would be interesting if you could translate any Japanese DTV forums.
>> I'd bet anything they're
>> overflowing with impulse noise/interference complaints, just like the
>> British and
>> (to a somewhat lesser extent) Australian forums have been.
>>
>> Actually, German DTV forums would be interesting too.
>>
>>
> Good idea. Let those who want to check out these forums to see if they are
> "overflowing with impulse noise/interference complaints" like you
> say they are.
>
> UK
> http/forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/index.php
> http/forum.digitalspy.co.uk/board/forumdisplay.php?f=13
>
> Germany forum
> http/forum.digitalfernsehen.de/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=50
>
> and info on Berlin...
> http/www.ueberall-tv.de/
> http/www.ueberall-tv.de/reg_BB/1BBstart/BB_start.htm
> http/www.garv.de/dvb_t.htm
>
> info on North Germany
> http/www.dvb-t-nord.de/
>
> info on Nordrhein-Westfalen
> http/nrw.ueberallfernsehen.de/start.html
>
> info on Rhein-Main Gebiet
> http/www.hr-online.de/website/extern/ueberallfernsehen/index.jsp
>
> info on Bavaria..
> http/www.dvb-t-bayern.de/
>
> info on middle Germany
> http/www.dvbt-mitteldeutschland.de/
>
> Info on Australia..
> http/www.dba.org.au/
>
> Forums on Australia
> aus.tv
> aus.tv.digital
> http/www.dtvforum.info/

You never learned how to properly do a usenet search, did you?

I've had almost 10,000 results with the searches I've done.
I've pointed them out to you and you ignored them.
Anyway, it hardly matters what you think about all this, doesn't it?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Bob Miller wrote:
>
> With an order of ONE at your local convenience store in the UK you
can
> buy such a converter for $35 to $55 NOW.

Oh well golly gee BOOBY PIE, what better reason to switch to COFDM and
change our entire 8VSB infrastructure then saving $25 on a STANDARD
DEFINITION COFDM receiver. Hey BOOBY, have I told you recently that you
are absolutely beyond belief?



> Another Haliburton deal it looks like.
Just can't resist politics can you BOOBSTER? When people like you come
to the realization that Haliburton is the ONLY company in the world
capable of doing what they do on a large scale, you'll realize how
idiotic your remarks are. But I digree, this IS a high definition ng.

First a monopoly on the US market
> for LG and when the receivers don't sell a MANDATE and then an
> overpriced big contract to supply receivers when that doesn't work.

What doesn't work Mr. LIAR? The 8VSB receivers that have been out there
for years have been working just find Mr. LIAR. You are a despicable
little man who is utterly incapable of telling the truth. What a
spokesman you are for COFDM. Unreal. With salespeople like you, who
needs Chapter 11?

>
> I would like to ask Mr. Kim if LG would lower their IP royalties from
$6
> to $.60 to help the transition. $.60 is what the Brits are paying for
IP
> royalty rights when they buy their receivers. Why I would like to ask

> are we paying $5.40 more for a modulation that is far far inferior.

Well golly BOOBSTER PIE, that $5.40 sure will make the difference
between make and break. When did you first realize your neurosis became
a pyschosis? Instead of wallowing in your misery from your failed
business plan, why don't you get off your ass and change careers?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv,alt.video.digital-tv (More info?)

Mark Crispin wrote:
> On Mon, 14 Feb 2005, Bob Miller wrote:
>> On the other hand this cements the US in as a 2nd world country. It
>> would be far better to scrap both 8-VSB and MPEG2 and follow the
>> French or Chinese into an MPEG4 AVC DMB-T or DVB-T world.
>
> Q: How much over-the-air HDTV is there in France or Red China today?
> A: None.

"Red" China?

As for France - their DVB-T system is likely to MPEG2 Standard Def for
simulcast of the existing analogue terrestrials, and MPEG4 for SD and HD
Pay-TV. Not sure if there are proposals for FTA OTA HD using MPEG4. Think
the system is due to roll out next year, around the same time that Sky
launch their HD service (again expected to be MPEG4 and probably DVB-S2
eventually, though possible DVB-S initially?) via satellite.

2006 is likely to be when HD starts becoming a more mainstream reality in
Europe. (At the moment we just have Euro1080/HD1 and some other HD tests -
including one from TF-1 - one of the main commercial French channels)

Steve

 

[David]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

<vidguy7@aol.com> wrote

<why don't you get off your ass and change careers?

THIS is boob's career. Posting lie after lie, just to purposely anger us.