Strong Ammunition!!

G

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The House hearing this Thursday on "The Role of Technology in Achieving
a Hard Deadline for the DTV Transition" will have very strong ammunition
to use in holding to the 2006 deadline that Joe Barton wants.

http://energycommerce.house.gov/108/Hearings/02172005hearing1435/hearing.htm

Most people suggest that his 2006 deadline is his playing bad cop to
Powell and Ferree's plan for 2009 which is more realistic. But I have
been told that LG will testify that they will have stand alone ATSC to
analog receiver converters for sale for $50 by the 2006 deadline if the
deadline is upheld. Specifically NOT the cost of integrated receivers
but STAND ALONE receivers when I further questioned the source.

The next question to LG is why not a decently priced 5th generation
receiver now or in the near future. Why are we always waiting for
another few years? If this is true I think the 2006 deadline is very real.

On the other hand this cements the US in as a 2nd world country. It
would be far better to scrap both 8-VSB and MPEG2 and follow the French
or Chinese into an MPEG4 AVC DMB-T or DVB-T world.

Bob Miller
 

jt

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Do you have any life at all?

"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:n15Qd.203$IU.55@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> The House hearing this Thursday on "The Role of Technology in Achieving a
> Hard Deadline for the DTV Transition" will have very strong ammunition to
> use in holding to the 2006 deadline that Joe Barton wants.
>
> http://energycommerce.house.gov/108/Hearings/02172005hearing1435/hearing.htm
>
> Most people suggest that his 2006 deadline is his playing bad cop to
> Powell and Ferree's plan for 2009 which is more realistic. But I have been
> told that LG will testify that they will have stand alone ATSC to analog
> receiver converters for sale for $50 by the 2006 deadline if the deadline
> is upheld. Specifically NOT the cost of integrated receivers but STAND
> ALONE receivers when I further questioned the source.
>
> The next question to LG is why not a decently priced 5th generation
> receiver now or in the near future. Why are we always waiting for another
> few years? If this is true I think the 2006 deadline is very real.
>
> On the other hand this cements the US in as a 2nd world country. It would
> be far better to scrap both 8-VSB and MPEG2 and follow the French or
> Chinese into an MPEG4 AVC DMB-T or DVB-T world.
>
> Bob Miller
 
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On Mon, 14 Feb 2005, Bob Miller wrote:
> On the other hand this cements the US in as a 2nd world country. It would be
> far better to scrap both 8-VSB and MPEG2 and follow the French or Chinese
> into an MPEG4 AVC DMB-T or DVB-T world.

Q: How much over-the-air HDTV is there in France or Red China today?
A: None.

Q: Why does Bob Miller post all these inane messages?
A: He refuses to take the medication that he has been prescribed.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
 
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His entire existence is based upon trying to kill the current HDTV
broadcasting system. He is living in a dream world.

JT wrote:
> Do you have any life at all?
>
> "Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:n15Qd.203$IU.55@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > [junk]
 
G

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Booby..... Your unemployed and posting here like it's the truth, if you had
a real job or life you would not have time for this non-sense. Bobby get a
life, a real job, or just get out! Almost funny!

"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:n15Qd.203$IU.55@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> The House hearing this Thursday on "The Role of Technology in Achieving a
> Hard Deadline for the DTV Transition"
 
G

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"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:n15Qd.203$IU.55@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> ... But I have been told that LG will testify that they will have stand
> alone ATSC to analog receiver converters for sale for $50 by the 2006
> deadline if the deadline is upheld.

Excellent news!

> The next question to LG is why not a decently priced 5th generation
> receiver now or in the near future

Decently priced for whom, the manufacturer or the consumer? LG shouldn't be
expected to give their products away.

> ...scrap both 8-VSB and MPEG2 and follow the French or Chinese into an
> MPEG4 AVC DMB-T or DVB-T world.

Yeah, I want the same "HDTV" that the Frogs and Chineese have....

Phil
 
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Phil Ross (paross@pacbell.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> "Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:n15Qd.203$IU.55@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > ...scrap both 8-VSB and MPEG2 and follow the French or Chinese into an
> > MPEG4 AVC DMB-T or DVB-T world.
>
> Yeah, I want the same "HDTV" that the Frogs and Chineese have....

For those people that missed Phil's point, neither country has any HDTV.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/OverTheHedge/TiVoForRealLife.gif
 

jeremy

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Mark Crispin wrote:
>....
>
> Q: Why does Bob Miller post all these inane messages?
> A: He refuses to take the medication that he has been prescribed.

Bob has never denied that he has financial stake in his ideas. He's
passionate about his ideas and that I respect, but this newsgroup isn't
the place for them. Almost all of his post are DTV centric and focus on
one of two things: 1. The expanshion of the non-High Definition side of
DTV via a next generation of OTA tuners and new subscription based
providers that will "rise up" to "overtake satellite and cable
companies" or the adoption of COFDM vs 8VSB and how the "US is a 2nd
world country because of their use of modulation".

When pressed to debate these issues, Bob has no explanation for:

1. The excellent field test of 5th gen 8VSB tuners. Sinclare
broadcasting group (probably the most powerful anti-8VSB organzation in
the US) put out a press release praising 5th gen 8VSB tuners and
declared the battle over, however Bob continues to wage his own
personal war, often contradicting himself (e.g. he agreed with
Sinclare, but he continues to trash talk the US system and 8VSB
modulation)

2. Bob will claim other countries are ahead of the US, he'll point to
mobile technology as an example and ignore the logical reasons why it
makes sense for counties such as India and China to invest in such
infrastructure where they currently have nothing. What's practicle for
China and India to invest money in may not be practicle for the US, Bob
ignores the big picture.

3. Bob will claim other countries are ahead of the US in spite of the
fact that the US in unmatched in the amount of OTA High Definition
programming available. Currently about 75% of prime time television in
the US is available in High Definition in all major markets, check the
listings. Look at the prime time spots of CBS, NBC, ABC, etc... All the
networks in the US have embraced HDTV because the government steped in
and made a decision to force standardization of 8VSB. Bob doesn't
believe a modulation standard should be forced, he believes
broadcasters should have the right to select what they want (an insane
idea that leads to chaos for television manufactures and ultimately
consumers).

4.Bob's current passion is pushing his grand vision for what he
believes is to come, "a new bread of OTA subscription based providers
that will make cable and satellite obsolete". Bob's argument is always
one of price over quality, he's very vocal about how he believes the
cable and satellite companies have too much power and charge customers
too much, yet can all see how "successful" USTV has been, in spite of a
relationship with the worlds #1 retail giant Walmart, USDTV has largely
failed to gain any ground. Bob can not provide even a high level
business plan summary of how similar startups could take on cable/sat.
He's even sudgested that broadcasters would cut out the middle man and
enter into the subscription based arena themselfs (again he can't
explain where they are going to get the money to invest in the huge
infrastructure involved in customer service, accounting, equipment
service and leasing, etc...), he can't give us any compelling reasons
why broascasters would want to take this risk or explain how the
cable/sat companies will fall when they continues to offer their
customers better benefits through composite service offerings (e.g.
broadband, digital phone, DVR).

The worst part about Bobs grand vision is that, if a success it would
almost certainly do away with free OTA High Definition.
 
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Bob Miller wrote:
> The next question to LG is why not a decently priced 5th generation
> receiver now or in the near future. Why are we always waiting for
> another few years? If this is true I think the 2006 deadline is very
real.

Perhaps because prior gen receivers have worked quite well BOB? There's
no need to wait. I know you like to avoid that entire issue, but facts
are what they are.....perhaps not in the world of Snake Oil Salesmen.

>
> On the other hand this cements the US in as a 2nd world country. It
> would be far better to scrap both 8-VSB and MPEG2 and follow the
French
> or Chinese into an MPEG4 AVC DMB-T or DVB-T world.
>
> Bob Miller

First off, I wouldn't follow the French into ANYTHING. Second, this
country (the one you hate BOOBY) is the LEADER, repeat, the LEADER in
high definition telecasting, both OTA and via satellite and cable. I
know that's yet ANOTHER fact you like to avoid. No BOB, it's the other
countries that are the "2nd world countries". So calling the U.S. a 2nd
world country doesn't make it so. This is just another LIE in the ever
increasing pile of LIES you've told over the years.
 
G

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Bob Miller wrote:
> France definitely has HDTV via satellite and will have HDTV
> terrestrially this summer.
> Bob Miller

Thanks for providing the FACTS to support my earlier statement that the
cowards....ooops French, are a 2nd world country, only JUST NOW getting
onboard with OTA HD while we've had it for YEARS. And you had the NERVE
to call US a 2nd world country. You are a despicable liar BOB.
 
G

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Bob Miller wrote:
> I reiterate, the US has the WORST modulation and compression codec in

> the world.

Incorrect and a lie, but you knew that already.


> This is not necessary and it has caused stagnation in our
> digital transition.

No BOB, YOU and your SINCLAIR buddies caused the stagnation. We're
about 1-2 years behind where we'd be if it wasn't for you and your
COFDM clowns and fellow Snake Oil Salesmen.

> It is time to change and now is a good time to do
> it. If anyone doubts this is true about the modulation does anyone
doubt
> it about MPEG2?
>
> To transition to MPEG4 is reason enough to scrap all current 8-VSB
> receivers and if we do that we might as well re-visit the modulation.
>
> Bob Miller

No BOOBY LIEMEISTER, it's over for you. I doubt you'll ever understand
that since you've been posting about the imminent 'death' of 8VSB for
years and, in FACT (oops, sorry BOOBY, a FACT) it's stronger than ever
today. The next 'transition' we'd all like to see, is you flipping
burgers at your local McDonalds.
 
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jeremy@pdq.net wrote:
> Mark Crispin wrote:
> The worst part about Bobs grand vision is that, if a success it would
> almost certainly do away with free OTA High Definition.


And that is the most hideous part of BOB's lies and fantasies. It's one
thing for us to all easily recognize his relentless lies,
embellishments and distortions, but it's quite another to realize that,
as I've always said, he has ZERO interest in HD. In fact, as you said,
his plans would do away with HD. Of course he'll deny it, but virtually
everything he's touted over the years has NOTHING to do with HD. This
is why he's constantly chided "BOB, this is an HD ng".
 
G

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Bob Miller wrote:
> Prior Gen receivers work well? Tell that to these folks over at
AVSForum
> because everyday they are posting the opposite and a lot of people
read
> AVSForum.

As always BOB, you cherry pick your posts just as you do here. We have
all commented RIGHT HERE BOB how you constantly, over the years,
totally, 100%, ignore the myriad of posters that RAVE about their 8VSB
OTA HD reception. You know damn well that I've joked about that very
fact for years. Ignoring these posters does not make them go away BOB.
Ignoring these posters doesn't change the facts that 8VSB works very
well. You have now done the same thing in attempting to distort what's
going on at AVS. Do you even realize that there are 100s (probably
THOUSANDS) of threads at AVS in the "Local HDTV Info and Reception"
section that shows the VAST MAJORITY of people have zero problems with
AVS. THAT is where you find the majority of opinions on what's going on
with local OTA HD around the country. BOB, when you cherry pick a
thread that indicates problems that SOME are having, that doesn't make
it the rule. Yes, of course some people have problems, NOTHING is 100%.
God knows that others have posted right here the myriad of problems
with COFDM. My ONLY experience with COFDM, via XM radio, has show how
DISMAL that modulation scheme can be. So stop your bullshit.
>
> Inkyblacks writes TODAY...
>
> "Again, I don't think all "5th" chips are created equal. You might
buy
> one and find it not much better than a 4th generation chip. The LG
chip
> really works and has been publicly tested. The others have to prove
> themselves in the light of day as history shows press releases mean
> nothing. I saw a press release from ATI in 1999 saying they had a
great
> chip that "cracked the code," but I have that chip in my RPTV and it
> stinks."

And so????? There is NOTHING, repeat NOTHING, in the above excerpt that
shows that prior gen receivers don't work well in most applications.
Saying that something is "not much better than a 4th gen chip" says
NOTHING, NADA, ZERO about how well the 4th gen chips work in most
applications. So BOB, another one of your obvious attempts at
distortion has not passed me or others by. If I posted all the positive
remarks about 8VSB reception, JUST IN THE NEW YORK OTA HD THREAD over
at AVS, I would totally choke the bandwidth of this ng. No BOB, you are
a God damn distorter of the truth and I find your tactics utterly
deplorable. Why don't you give up? Does it not occur to you yet that we
catch you in every lie, every distortion, ever embellishment? Are you
reaaly this stupid BOB? Do you relish this punishment for your
repulsive tactics? Unreal, utterl unreal.
 
G

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Jeff Rife wrote:
> Phil Ross (paross@pacbell.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>
>>"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:n15Qd.203$IU.55@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>>
>>>...scrap both 8-VSB and MPEG2 and follow the French or Chinese into an
>>>MPEG4 AVC DMB-T or DVB-T world.
>>
>>Yeah, I want the same "HDTV" that the Frogs and Chineese have....
>
>
> For those people that missed Phil's point, neither country has any HDTV.
>

Quite a blank statement. Anyway of backing that up?

France definitely has HDTV via satellite and will have HDTV
terrestrially this summer.

Sat...
http://www.euro1080.tv/

Terrestrial...
http://www.tekrati.com/T2/Analyst_Research/ResearchAnnouncementsDetails.asp?Newsid=3316

"News from European broadcasters, in particular France, looks promising
for MPEG-4. The CEOs of TPS, French satellite TV service indicated
recently that MPEG-4 would be used for their HD channels (at least one
channel is due to be live next summer). The French terrestrial
broadcaster, and TPS' main shareholder, TF1 is also expected to follow
the MPEG-4 path. It is not unfeasible that this will create an
unstoppable momentum in Europe, as these early movers drive down the
relative cost of MPEG-4 broadcast and consumer equipment." NEXT SUMMER
IS THIS SUMMER NOW.

China will have HDTV by the end of this year via satellite and plans on
having a "majority" of homes with DTV by the 2008 Olympics. Any idea
what a "majority" is in China? About the same number of homes as the US
has citizens.

http://www.entrust.com/news/2004/archive2004_6037.htm?entsrc=china_spotlight

I reiterate, the US has the WORST modulation and compression codec in
the world. This is not necessary and it has caused stagnation in our
digital transition. It is time to change and now is a good time to do
it. If anyone doubts this is true about the modulation does anyone doubt
it about MPEG2?

To transition to MPEG4 is reason enough to scrap all current 8-VSB
receivers and if we do that we might as well re-visit the modulation.

Bob Miller
 
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Bob Miller (robmx@earthlink.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
> > For those people that missed Phil's point, neither country has any HDTV.
> >
>
> Quite a blank statement. Anyway of backing that up?

Yes, using what you post yourself:

> France definitely has HDTV via satellite and will have HDTV
> terrestrially this summer.
>
> China will have HDTV by the end of this year via satellite and plans on
> having a "majority" of homes with DTV by the 2008 Olympics.

Thus, neither France or China have HDTV. France has satellite delivery of
HD, but, then, so does the US.

> I reiterate, the US has the WORST modulation and compression codec in
> the world.

Yeah, we use that same old nasty MPEG-2 that the UK, Australia, Berlin, etc.,
all use, and must continue to use to keep all those "millions" of current
STBs working correctly.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/RhymesWithOrange/WorkingDogs.gif
 
G

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vidguy7@aol.com wrote:
> Bob Miller wrote:
>
>>The next question to LG is why not a decently priced 5th generation receiver now or in the near future. Why are we always waiting for
>>another few years? If this is true I think the 2006 deadline is very real.
>
> Perhaps because prior gen receivers have worked quite well BOB? There's no need to wait. I know you like to avoid that entire issue, but facts
> are what they are.....perhaps not in the world of Snake Oil Salesmen.
>
Prior Gen receivers work well? Tell that to these folks over at AVSForum
because everyday they are posting the opposite and a lot of people read
AVSForum.

Inkyblacks writes TODAY...

"Again, I don't think all "5th" chips are created equal. You might buy
one and find it not much better than a 4th generation chip. The LG chip
really works and has been publicly tested. The others have to prove
themselves in the light of day as history shows press releases mean
nothing. I saw a press release from ATI in 1999 saying they had a great
chip that "cracked the code," but I have that chip in my RPTV and it
stinks."

GSFromCT writes TODAY...

"The new Samsung STBs have 5th generation tuners. Do they use ATI chips?
I have not heard any glowing reports on how well the new Samsungs handle
multipath.
I feel like I am in a holding pattern waiting for a 5th gen STB to be
produced.
LG says 4th gen STB sales have not been that great. Have they ever
stopped to think it may be because multipath problems are a major issue
for some of us? All those analog TVs are going to need a STB in order to
receive ATSC broadcasts. Many of us will need a STB that can deal with
multipath correctly."

"Before the broadcast flag fiasco? Me too Schlotkins, me too. In my case
it is kind of worthless to pick up a box now as my latest test
(DB-2010)proved that I could only get 1 channel out of 7 in my local
area. I have better luck getting out of market stations."

HE GETS OUT OF MARKET STATIONS!! Like Mark Schubin who can get Philly
sometimes but not the Empire State Building 30 blocks away. He should be
satisfied with those out of market freak stations right? That's whats
so good about 8-VSB, its freaky!!

All at ...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=0f4bda34404b19c96bc20e199217f1df&threadid=459962&perpage=20&pagenumber=6
 
G

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This is not AVSForum, so please posting all these ramblings. I really
don't care what one guy says at some online forum. Or do you think
that just because it's on the IntarWeb that it must be true?


Bob Miller wrote:
> vidguy7@aol.com wrote:
>
>> Bob Miller wrote:
>>
>>> The next question to LG is why not a decently priced 5th generation
>>> receiver now or in the near future. Why are we always waiting for
>>> another few years? If this is true I think the 2006 deadline is very
>>> real.
>>
>>
>> Perhaps because prior gen receivers have worked quite well BOB?
>> There's no need to wait. I know you like to avoid that entire issue,
>> but facts
>> are what they are.....perhaps not in the world of Snake Oil Salesmen.
>>
> Prior Gen receivers work well? Tell that to these folks over at AVSForum
> because everyday they are posting the opposite and a lot of people read
> AVSForum.
>
> Inkyblacks writes TODAY...
>
> "Again, I don't think all "5th" chips are created equal. You might buy
> one and find it not much better than a 4th generation chip. The LG chip
> really works and has been publicly tested. The others have to prove
> themselves in the light of day as history shows press releases mean
> nothing. I saw a press release from ATI in 1999 saying they had a great
> chip that "cracked the code," but I have that chip in my RPTV and it
> stinks."
>
> GSFromCT writes TODAY...
>
> "The new Samsung STBs have 5th generation tuners. Do they use ATI chips?
> I have not heard any glowing reports on how well the new Samsungs handle
> multipath.
> I feel like I am in a holding pattern waiting for a 5th gen STB to be
> produced.
> LG says 4th gen STB sales have not been that great. Have they ever
> stopped to think it may be because multipath problems are a major issue
> for some of us? All those analog TVs are going to need a STB in order to
> receive ATSC broadcasts. Many of us will need a STB that can deal with
> multipath correctly."
>
> "Before the broadcast flag fiasco? Me too Schlotkins, me too. In my case
> it is kind of worthless to pick up a box now as my latest test
> (DB-2010)proved that I could only get 1 channel out of 7 in my local
> area. I have better luck getting out of market stations."
>
> HE GETS OUT OF MARKET STATIONS!! Like Mark Schubin who can get Philly
> sometimes but not the Empire State Building 30 blocks away. He should be
> satisfied with those out of market freak stations right? That's whats so
> good about 8-VSB, its freaky!!
>
> All at ...
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=0f4bda34404b19c96bc20e199217f1df&threadid=459962&perpage=20&pagenumber=6
>
 

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"Bob Miller" <robmx@earthlink.net> wrote Like Mark Schubin who can get
Philly
> sometimes but not the Empire State Building 30 blocks away. He should be
> satisfied with those out of market freak stations right? That's whats so
> good about 8-VSB, its freaky!!

You're actually STILL harping about that "apartment" fixation of yours?
I feel sorry for your family.
 
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Jeff Rife wrote:
> Bob Miller (robmx@earthlink.net) wrote in alt.tv.tech.hdtv:
>
>>>For those people that missed Phil's point, neither country has any HDTV.
>>>
>>
>>Quite a blank statement. Anyway of backing that up?
>
>
> Yes, using what you post yourself:
>
>
>>France definitely has HDTV via satellite and will have HDTV
>>terrestrially this summer.
>>
>>China will have HDTV by the end of this year via satellite and plans on
>>having a "majority" of homes with DTV by the 2008 Olympics.
>
>
> Thus, neither France or China have HDTV. France has satellite delivery of
> HD, but, then, so does the US.

Very weird, France doesn't and France does. Make up your mind. China
actually has some HD now. Numerous test sites being broadcast. Your
claim was that neither had "any" HD. Satellite counts, test sites count
when you invoke "any".
>
>
>>I reiterate, the US has the WORST modulation and compression codec in
>>the world.
>
>
> Yeah, we use that same old nasty MPEG-2 that the UK, Australia, Berlin, etc.,
> all use, and must continue to use to keep all those "millions" of current
> STBs working correctly.
>
Yes but the point I was making is that the US has a unique opportunity
to move up to MPEG4 and while we are at it go to the most advanced
modulation at the same time. This Thursday LG will suggest that if the
US buys millions of 8-VSB receivers at one time that they will produce
them for around $50 at the end of 2006 if the digital transition happens
on December 31st.

We could switch to COFDM at that moment instead of 8-VSB, buy COFDM
receivers for $40 each that use MPEG4 or maybe even DMB-T Chinese
receivers for $25 each, replace all current DTV receivers and have the
best DTV HD both compression and modulation wise in the world. It would
even cost less than the LG plan.

And we don't have to wait till January 1st 2007 to do this with COFDM.
We could do it today, no delay, hurray !! Hint I will sell the $40 COFDM
receivers and make a bundle in the bargain.

Bob Miller
 
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>We could switch to COFDM at that moment instead of 8-VSB, buy COFDM
>receivers for $40 each that use MPEG4 or maybe even DMB-T Chinese
>receivers for $25 each, replace all current DTV receivers and have the
>best DTV HD both compression and modulation wise in the world. It would
>even cost less than the LG plan.

Talk about "keeping hope alive"......you've got me jazzed. I'm going
to suffer the three hour drive down to Florida to get me a lottery
ticket.