Those new Bose PA speakers

[george]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <ci5996079h@enews2.newsguy.com>,
Bob Cain <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote:

> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>
> > Yes. Poor gain before feedback, and total inability to deal with high
> > backline levels.
>
> What's a high backline level?
>
>
> Bob

Musicians who foolishly(in boses mind) perfer the sound of a hard driven
Fender twin tube amp with 2x12 speakers to the sound of a stick full of
2 and 1/2 inch driver running non adjustable DSP guitar simulations
George

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

George <g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>Musicians who foolishly(in boses mind) perfer the sound of a hard driven
>Fender twin tube amp with 2x12 speakers to the sound of a stick full of
>2 and 1/2 inch driver running non adjustable DSP guitar simulations

I bet the Bose could compete respectably with a couple Champs, though, and
you can get great tone out of a Champ. Hell, you can get great tone out of
a pignose. It wouldn't be very loud, though, not even going through the PA.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

[george]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <ci5d8l$bku$1@panix2.panix.com>,
kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

> George <g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
> >Musicians who foolishly(in boses mind) perfer the sound of a hard driven
> >Fender twin tube amp with 2x12 speakers to the sound of a stick full of
> >2 and 1/2 inch driver running non adjustable DSP guitar simulations
>
> I bet the Bose could compete respectably with a couple Champs, though, and
> you can get great tone out of a Champ. Hell, you can get great tone out of
> a pignose. It wouldn't be very loud, though, not even going through the PA.
> --scott


What does a couple of used champs cost, maybe 175$ even new I bet I
could get 2 for under 400.00
then I would have at least 1600.00 left that I didn't spend on the bose
to further my training in appreciation of scotch
George

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

George <g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>What does a couple of used champs cost, maybe 175$ even new I bet I
>could get 2 for under 400.00
>then I would have at least 1600.00 left that I didn't spend on the bose
>to further my training in appreciation of scotch

No, my argument was that if you used a couple Champs as your backline, the
Bose would be more than enough for vocals that need to be heard over the
Champs.

The thing about the Bose is that nobody else in the MI market makes anything
really intended for small acoustic acts. It's a market that was empty, so
Bose filled it. Sure, you could build something that would work better for
less... and if you could get it into music stores some people might buy it.

Come to think of it, whatever happened to the Frazier Cat-40s? That might
not be a bad setup for a singer-songwriter act. I always thought those had
the most natural vocal sound of any horn-loaded system I heard. Not available
at your local music store, mostly because Frazier's marketing guys aren't in
Bose's class.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

[george]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <ef0a1497.0409131635.c69e606@posting.google.com>,
rupertwart@aol.com (Rupert) wrote:

> George <g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:<g.p.gleason-99297A.14521713092004@netnews.worldnet.att.net>...
> > In article <7350cf5e.0409131049.21458d8e@posting.google.com>,
> > bill.lagreca@verizon.net (billhw13) wrote:
> >
> > > I was looking through this thread, trying to understand peoples
> > > experiences and opinions on this system. As a musician, I had an
> > > opportunity to demo this unit with a full band running through 1
> > > system, and I was really impressed. the sound was clearly better than
> > > any PA we've used, and there were no issues with vocal monitors at
> > > all. I'm thinkig of replacing my current PA with 2 of these...
> > >
> > > Now, as a practical user, who doesn't care about brand names or minor
> > > tweak issues, is there really any downside to these systems?
> >
> > yes but they were outlined in the thread and you seem happy to work
> > around them
> > you may be the type of act/musician that this bose product is right for
> > George
>
> I don't know. I heard these for the first time at a small outdoor art
> fair in Culver City, CA. I was hanging out at the first booth from the
> "stage" (musicians on the ground with a canopy to keep the sun off).
> The upright bassist had one PAS just for himself with a plain ol' SM58
> running into it with a sub. This was a very light 4 piece jazz
> ensemble. The bassist was by no mean cranking. Yet, the drivers on the
> sub were going full tilt, and were bottoming out quite a bit. Now keep
> in mind, the was an SM58 a foot off the instrument, and we're not
> talking about a mic that can register a lot of bottom. Yet the PAS sub
> was not able to handle it at pretty mellow levels. I was highly
> unimpressed. The upper end definition was ok, but not exceptional. I'm
> sure indoors, the sub would have been more effective. But what kind of
> versatility is that?? The keyboard player using a single SRM-450
> sounded great, and had the capability for a lot more output if needed.
>
> Rupert


The acts this Bose system works for are far and few between, but there
will be a market for it for a while
I have been completely unimpressed by it
George

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

k
>
> The thing about the Bose is that nobody else in the MI market makes anything
> really intended for small acoustic acts. It's a market that was empty, so
> Bose filled it. Sure, you could build something that would work better for
> less... and if you could get it into music stores some people might buy it.
>
Thanks for the advice. After doing some more reading, I'm on the
fence. My ears liked them, but I didn't do a full gig with them..so
some of the issues you folks bring up may be a problem for me too.

The point the keeps bothering me is that many of you say this is
intended for small acoustic acts - which is not my current project.
Right now, I'm in a 4 piece with drums, bass going through a Phil
Jones amp, Keyboards / Organ, and guitar through a 40w amp. We
currently use a Yamaha powered mixer driving JBL Eon's, and use
hotspots or yamaha 12" cab's for monitors.

When I demo'ed the Bose unit, we ran the bass, guitar, keys and 1
vocal all through 1 system. Like I said, I liked what I heard. Yeah
- the bass could have been a bit deeper - but what really impressed me
was the way the room was covered. and no monitors.
So why do you think this system is limited to a niche for small
acoustic acts?
What am I missing ?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

billhw13 <bill.lagreca@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>When I demo'ed the Bose unit, we ran the bass, guitar, keys and 1
>vocal all through 1 system. Like I said, I liked what I heard. Yeah
>- the bass could have been a bit deeper - but what really impressed me
>was the way the room was covered. and no monitors.
>So why do you think this system is limited to a niche for small
>acoustic acts?
>What am I missing ?

Because when your stage levels start getting high, the way the whole room
is covered (ie. the wide dispersion) becomes a quick path to feedback.
Your question is what sort of stage levels can you get away with in the
sorts of halls that you play in. I can't answer that for you, but an audition
for a couple gigs might.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message news:ci5d8l$bku$1@panix2.panix.com...
: George <g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
: >
: >Musicians who foolishly(in boses mind) perfer the sound of a hard driven
: >Fender twin tube amp with 2x12 speakers to the sound of a stick full of
: >2 and 1/2 inch driver running non adjustable DSP guitar simulations
:
: I bet the Bose could compete respectably with a couple Champs, though, and
: you can get great tone out of a Champ. Hell, you can get great tone out of
: a pignose. It wouldn't be very loud, though, not even going through the PA.


Okay so lets assume that a silly rich guitar player buys one of the bo$e sticks for his guitar
rig. Now he shows up with the stick at my club. Where do I put the mic on the stick so I can
run it through the PA? Which mic would I choose? Do you think I will loose the Bose sound or
the line array character micing the stick? The damn bo$e folks, when are they going to start
putting direct outs on their PA sticks so I don't have to mic them so we can hear them.

Good Morning
Phil Abbate or PA to the rest of you.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <PPz1d.975$mb6.857@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
anybody-but-bush <Anybody But Bu$h@YAHOO.com> wrote:
>
>"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message news:ci5d8l$bku$1@panix2.panix.com...
>: George <g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>: >
>: >Musicians who foolishly(in boses mind) perfer the sound of a hard driven
>: >Fender twin tube amp with 2x12 speakers to the sound of a stick full of
>: >2 and 1/2 inch driver running non adjustable DSP guitar simulations
>:
>: I bet the Bose could compete respectably with a couple Champs, though, and
>: you can get great tone out of a Champ. Hell, you can get great tone out of
>: a pignose. It wouldn't be very loud, though, not even going through the PA.
>
>
>Okay so lets assume that a silly rich guitar player buys one of the bo$e sticks for his guitar
>rig. Now he shows up with the stick at my club. Where do I put the mic on the stick so I can
>run it through the PA? Which mic would I choose? Do you think I will loose the Bose sound or
>the line array character micing the stick? The damn bo$e folks, when are they going to start
>putting direct outs on their PA sticks so I don't have to mic them so we can hear them.

No. The Bose speakers will not handle electric guitar. They weren't intended
for that. They are intended to _replace_ your club PA for vocals, while the
backline provides all the guitar sound. They'll handle acoustic guitar and
vocal together reasonably well. They aren't _for_ big electric guitar groups
in clubs with PA. That's not what they do. Any attempt to use them with a
full rock band will be disasterous, but that's not what they are for and that
is not the market they are being sold into.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

This is rather OT, but I couldn't resist.

"Bose -- for the closest reproach to the original sound."

I'm using reproach in its older meaning.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message news:ci5i5f$amn$1@panix2.panix.com...
: George <g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
: >
: >What does a couple of used champs cost, maybe 175$ even new I bet I
: >could get 2 for under 400.00
: >then I would have at least 1600.00 left that I didn't spend on the bose
: >to further my training in appreciation of scotch
:
: No, my argument was that if you used a couple Champs as your backline, the
: Bose would be more than enough for vocals that need to be heard over the
: Champs.


I brought a champ to a blues jam on the Redondo Beach Pier one night. I was playing my harp
through it. I had to put the champ up on a cocktail table and bend over to hear myself over
the band. Drums not miced, bass, guitar and a Leslie/organ completely drowned it out.

I had used it a few days earlier in a garage with a band using electronic drums and a 4x10
bassman amp for bass, and guitar amps with master volumes turned down low. This band was
determined not to bother the neighbors. The champ worked great in this environment.

If the bo$e stick can't get over the champs it is nothing more than a glorified boom box. Oh I
forgot that is what it is.

Phil Abbate

 

[Michael]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <ci6rmp$284$1@panix2.panix.com>, kludge@panix.com says...
> In article <PPz1d.975$mb6.857@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>,
> anybody-but-bush <Anybody But Bu$h@YAHOO.com> wrote:
> >
> >"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message news:ci5d8l$bku$1@panix2.panix.com...
> >: George <g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >: >
> >: >Musicians who foolishly(in boses mind) perfer the sound of a hard driven
> >: >Fender twin tube amp with 2x12 speakers to the sound of a stick full of
> >: >2 and 1/2 inch driver running non adjustable DSP guitar simulations
> >:
> >: I bet the Bose could compete respectably with a couple Champs, though, and
> >: you can get great tone out of a Champ. Hell, you can get great tone out of
> >: a pignose. It wouldn't be very loud, though, not even going through the PA.
> >
> >
> >Okay so lets assume that a silly rich guitar player buys one of the bo$e sticks for his guitar
> >rig. Now he shows up with the stick at my club. Where do I put the mic on the stick so I can
> >run it through the PA? Which mic would I choose? Do you think I will loose the Bose sound or
> >the line array character micing the stick? The damn bo$e folks, when are they going to start
> >putting direct outs on their PA sticks so I don't have to mic them so we can hear them.
>
> No. The Bose speakers will not handle electric guitar. They weren't intended
> for that. They are intended to _replace_ your club PA for vocals, while the
> backline provides all the guitar sound. They'll handle acoustic guitar and
> vocal together reasonably well. They aren't _for_ big electric guitar groups
> in clubs with PA. That's not what they do. Any attempt to use them with a
> full rock band will be disasterous, but that's not what they are for and that
> is not the market they are being sold into.

No, Scott, that unfortunately IS what they are advertising them for!
Look in any recent issue of most guitar magazines, and you'll see an
ad for Line6/Bose, advertising the use of the Pod, Variax, and this
Bose stick thingy for electric guitar amplification. They show a
diagram of a band playing, with all amplification being handled by a
line of something like 5 to 7 of these sticks behind them. Their
schtick is that regular guitar amps are very "beamy" (which of course
they are), and that this stick disperses sound much more evenly across
the venue. They say nothing of SPL or much of anything else. They
also never mention that in any decent-sized auditorium, most of the
volume comes from the PA, NOT the guitar player's amp; so it is then
distributed, and not beamy as they claim.

 

[george]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <7350cf5e.0409140457.7599c0e4@posting.google.com>,
bill.lagreca@verizon.net (billhw13) wrote:

> k
> >
> > The thing about the Bose is that nobody else in the MI market makes
> > anything
> > really intended for small acoustic acts. It's a market that was empty, so
> > Bose filled it. Sure, you could build something that would work better for
> > less... and if you could get it into music stores some people might buy it.
> >
> Thanks for the advice. After doing some more reading, I'm on the
> fence. My ears liked them, but I didn't do a full gig with them..so
> some of the issues you folks bring up may be a problem for me too.
>
> The point the keeps bothering me is that many of you say this is
> intended for small acoustic acts - which is not my current project.
> Right now, I'm in a 4 piece with drums, bass going through a Phil
> Jones amp, Keyboards / Organ, and guitar through a 40w amp. We
> currently use a Yamaha powered mixer driving JBL Eon's, and use
> hotspots or yamaha 12" cab's for monitors.
>
> When I demo'ed the Bose unit, we ran the bass, guitar, keys and 1
> vocal all through 1 system. Like I said, I liked what I heard. Yeah
> - the bass could have been a bit deeper - but what really impressed me
> was the way the room was covered. and no monitors.
> So why do you think this system is limited to a niche for small
> acoustic acts?
> What am I missing ?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.

like I said if you liked it , it will inspire confidence in your
playing, they have a full money back refund policy
I don't care for them for reason outlined too many times already
but if you liked it and it seemed to work for you I suggest you give it
a real nights work, or perhaps a few nights work
I f you still like it, call it yours
George

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

in article g.p.gleason-904940.20120013092004@netnews.worldnet.att.net,
George at g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net wrote on 9/13/04 8:11 PM:

>> What's a high backline level?
>>
>>
>> Bob
>
> Musicians who foolishly(in boses mind) perfer the sound of a hard driven
> Fender twin tube amp with 2x12 speakers to the sound of a stick full of
> 2 and 1/2 inch driver running non adjustable DSP guitar simulations
> George

any muso pushing a Twin hard in a pub is nuts, Bose or No-Bose.

"I don't understand what everybody's laughing about,
this is simply a fact... you can't have opinions about facts."

 

[george]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <BD6C6A9E.24F4%ten.nozirev@dlywsinhoj.com>,
JoVee <ten.nozirev@dlywsinhoj.com> wrote:

> in article g.p.gleason-904940.20120013092004@netnews.worldnet.att.net,
> George at g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net wrote on 9/13/04 8:11 PM:
>
> >> What's a high backline level?
> >>
> >>
> >> Bob
> >
> > Musicians who foolishly(in boses mind) perfer the sound of a hard driven
> > Fender twin tube amp with 2x12 speakers to the sound of a stick full of
> > 2 and 1/2 inch driver running non adjustable DSP guitar simulations
> > George
>
> any muso pushing a Twin hard in a pub is nuts, Bose or No-Bose.
>
>

I never said "in a pub"
these are sold as replacments for pa systems in large theaters as well
as other uses
george

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

in article ci5d8l$bku$1@panix2.panix.com, Scott Dorsey at kludge@panix.com
wrote on 9/13/04 8:16 PM:

> George <g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>
>> Musicians who foolishly(in boses mind) perfer the sound of a hard driven
>> Fender twin tube amp with 2x12 speakers to the sound of a stick full of
>> 2 and 1/2 inch driver running non adjustable DSP guitar simulations
>
> I bet the Bose could compete respectably with a couple Champs, though, and
> you can get great tone out of a Champ. Hell, you can get great tone out of
> a pignose. It wouldn't be very loud, though, not even going through the PA.
> --scott

A Fender Super Champ, or a Blues Jr, or even a Deluxe, are all great
tonebabies and would indeed be killer-sounding and a great level-match in
anything that the sticks would cut well.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

in article g.p.gleason-D778D3.20295913092004@netnews.worldnet.att.net,
George at g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net wrote on 9/13/04 8:29 PM:

> In article <ci5d8l$bku$1@panix2.panix.com>,
> kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
>> George <g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Musicians who foolishly(in boses mind) perfer the sound of a hard driven
>>> Fender twin tube amp with 2x12 speakers to the sound of a stick full of
>>> 2 and 1/2 inch driver running non adjustable DSP guitar simulations
>>
>> I bet the Bose could compete respectably with a couple Champs, though, and
>> you can get great tone out of a Champ. Hell, you can get great tone out of
>> a pignose. It wouldn't be very loud, though, not even going through the PA.
>> --scott
>
>
> What does a couple of used champs cost, maybe 175$ even new I bet I
> could get 2 for under 400.00
> then I would have at least 1600.00 left that I didn't spend on the bose
> to further my training in appreciation of scotch
> George

I'm cornfoosed, how did this get to the absurd idea of using the Sticks for
electric guitar???
EG belongs in an amp radiating direct to the audience, just like a big box
of resonant wood belongs around a double-bass.
amps come in all sizes for different size venues.

 

[george]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <BD6C6BD5.24F6%ten.nozirev@dlywsinhoj.com>,
JoVee <ten.nozirev@dlywsinhoj.com> wrote:

> in article g.p.gleason-D778D3.20295913092004@netnews.worldnet.att.net,
> George at g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net wrote on 9/13/04 8:29 PM:
>
> > In article <ci5d8l$bku$1@panix2.panix.com>,
> > kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> >
> >> George <g.p.gleason@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Musicians who foolishly(in boses mind) perfer the sound of a hard driven
> >>> Fender twin tube amp with 2x12 speakers to the sound of a stick full of
> >>> 2 and 1/2 inch driver running non adjustable DSP guitar simulations
> >>
> >> I bet the Bose could compete respectably with a couple Champs, though, and
> >> you can get great tone out of a Champ. Hell, you can get great tone out
> >> of
> >> a pignose. It wouldn't be very loud, though, not even going through the
> >> PA.
> >> --scott
> >
> >
> > What does a couple of used champs cost, maybe 175$ even new I bet I
> > could get 2 for under 400.00
> > then I would have at least 1600.00 left that I didn't spend on the bose
> > to further my training in appreciation of scotch
> > George
>
> I'm cornfoosed, how did this get to the absurd idea of using the Sticks for
> electric guitar???
> EG belongs in an amp radiating direct to the audience, just like a big box
> of resonant wood belongs around a double-bass.
> amps come in all sizes for different size venues.
>

Bose says it is THE solution to all bands sound needs
St. Davey insists that backline is not required if you have the Bose SOS
Bost tells you things like tone and volume are better handled with thier
presets than your ears
George

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

>
>
> Bose says it is THE solution to all bands sound needs
> St. Davey insists that backline is not required if you have the Bose SOS
> Bost tells you things like tone and volume are better handled with thier
> presets than your ears
> George

that's true. The rep had us plug directly in, he adjusted some presets
by looking at a chart and matching it with what we were playing. For
example, he asked what kind of bass I was playing and he selected the
preset for that bass from a set of charts. Same for the guitarist.
That was kinda weird.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.audio.pro.live-sound,rec.audio.pro (More info?)

In article <KCC1d.8237$iS2.4@trnddc09>,
Billhw13 <bill.lagreca@verizon.net> wrote:
>>
>> Bose says it is THE solution to all bands sound needs
>> St. Davey insists that backline is not required if you have the Bose SOS
>> Bost tells you things like tone and volume are better handled with thier
>> presets than your ears
>> George
>
>that's true. The rep had us plug directly in, he adjusted some presets
>by looking at a chart and matching it with what we were playing. For
>example, he asked what kind of bass I was playing and he selected the
>preset for that bass from a set of charts. Same for the guitarist.
>That was kinda weird.

That is totally moronic.
But it's not surprising, given Bose's marketing guys.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."