Microsoft starts releasing Windows Vista on November 30th. Writing from a mobile computing perspective, Guy Thomas and Barry Gerber offer a number of good reasons to switch to Vista and help you make the right decision about running it on existing or new hardware.
Windows Vista on Notebooks: Why and What Hardware?
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Jake_Barnes
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While this thread principally focuses on desktops, members might find some interesting information re: Vista:
List of Vista Supported Hardware & Software
List of Vista Supported Hardware & Software
killernotebooks
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OR, save the money you would spend on Vista AERO Ultimate and get a PS3 with Cell processor, BluRay DVD, controllers, hard drive, nVidia graphics WITH its own OS for $100 more?!
You can skin XP Pro and have your own homegrown VISTA:
Another skin - Vista skin for XP
Send MS a message that an upgrade OS with nothing in it that was promised should be $99!
You can skin XP Pro and have your own homegrown VISTA:
Another skin - Vista skin for XP
Send MS a message that an upgrade OS with nothing in it that was promised should be $99!
Zorak
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There are a few things in this article that bother me: I would like to state first and foremost that is comes off as sounding very much like a Microsoft commercial rather than an honest evaluation and recommendation of the new Microsoft operating system. For example, on Vista security, this article said:
"We'll will stick our necks out and predict that in 5 years everyone will be saying praising Microsoft's operating system as the most secure. That system maybe son-of-Vista or Vista with SP5, but Microsoft seems determined to achieve the premier security position."
There is no possible way of knowing this without actually setting up windows vista machines and then comparing the ease of compromising them with another machine running a rival OS such as OpenBSD or any other Unix variant. Just because Microsoft says that it is attempting to make its operating systems "more secure" doesn't mean that it will rise to the top all of the sudden (or even within a timeframe of 5 years). I have used several different iterations of the Windows operating system over the years (staring with version 3.1) , and ALL of them, despite improvements, have been riddled with security holes and instabilities.
As much as I love THG, I must admit that I was rather shocked to read the unqualified statement "Get the fastest CPU you can afford." because to a casual reader, that would easily translate to "get the one with the highest model number". If anything, many of the reviews in this site show that 'better' processors (i.e. w/ higher model numbers and higher clockspeeds) aren't always 'faster' ( there is only a very slight gain in performance at a substancial extra cost).
I think if THG wanted to put out a serious article about vista on notebooks, you guys should stick to your traditional ( and much respected) method of using benchmarks and actual facts. If you want to compare security, how about setting up several machines with different operating systems and comparing how long it takes for them to be compromised? And as for which notebook features will run Vista the best, why not build several notebooks with faster (and slower) processors to compare? I think you will find that your readers are better served with concrete numerical data than vague recommendations.
I don't mean to flame here, but THG, YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN THIS!
-Zorak
"We'll will stick our necks out and predict that in 5 years everyone will be saying praising Microsoft's operating system as the most secure. That system maybe son-of-Vista or Vista with SP5, but Microsoft seems determined to achieve the premier security position."
There is no possible way of knowing this without actually setting up windows vista machines and then comparing the ease of compromising them with another machine running a rival OS such as OpenBSD or any other Unix variant. Just because Microsoft says that it is attempting to make its operating systems "more secure" doesn't mean that it will rise to the top all of the sudden (or even within a timeframe of 5 years). I have used several different iterations of the Windows operating system over the years (staring with version 3.1) , and ALL of them, despite improvements, have been riddled with security holes and instabilities.
As much as I love THG, I must admit that I was rather shocked to read the unqualified statement "Get the fastest CPU you can afford." because to a casual reader, that would easily translate to "get the one with the highest model number". If anything, many of the reviews in this site show that 'better' processors (i.e. w/ higher model numbers and higher clockspeeds) aren't always 'faster' ( there is only a very slight gain in performance at a substancial extra cost).
I think if THG wanted to put out a serious article about vista on notebooks, you guys should stick to your traditional ( and much respected) method of using benchmarks and actual facts. If you want to compare security, how about setting up several machines with different operating systems and comparing how long it takes for them to be compromised? And as for which notebook features will run Vista the best, why not build several notebooks with faster (and slower) processors to compare? I think you will find that your readers are better served with concrete numerical data than vague recommendations.
I don't mean to flame here, but THG, YOU CAN DO BETTER THAN THIS!
-Zorak
Jake_Barnes
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Sadly, this has become the rule amongst THG writers lately, rather than the exception. It's ad dollars driven, rather than quality and brutal honesty, when required. What can you do - except call 'em as you see 'em ... 8O
killernotebooks
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g3neration
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Just my .02 since I couldnt help commenting. Didnt read the review and probably wont since most proclaim how good Vista is or will be but I saw the quote on how hard MS is making Vista more "secure" Pretty much my thoughts on this was summed up by a very interesting article by Scott Grannerman:
"...security researcher who a year or so from now wants to compare the buffer overflow vulnerabilities of the original version of Vista with the inevitable SP1...Security pros have already given Microsoft a deserved black eye over the never-ending string of gaffes and vulnerabilities streaming out of the company."
Very interesting article on how bad just even one part ( and probably the most boring ) of Vista is going to be:
http
/www.securityfocus.com/columnists/420
"...security researcher who a year or so from now wants to compare the buffer overflow vulnerabilities of the original version of Vista with the inevitable SP1...Security pros have already given Microsoft a deserved black eye over the never-ending string of gaffes and vulnerabilities streaming out of the company."
Very interesting article on how bad just even one part ( and probably the most boring ) of Vista is going to be:
http
/www.securityfocus.com/columnists/420Johanthegnarler
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I agree 100% with you and the IE7 section was terrible. I'm not going to let people know about the exploits I already know about IE7, but i'm sure there are a few people on our forums that already know of EXTREME security issues with IE7... I'm sure if you are clever enough with a search engine.. you'll see what i'm talking about.
Better yet..i'm still not ready though to spend $$ on vista.. i'm poor.
Better yet..i'm still not ready though to spend $$ on vista.. i'm poor.
killernotebooks
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What sickens me about IE7 is today, I still got the same ole pop up's that crashed the browser... what has changed? I prefer Netscape because you can view as either Firefox or Ie for testing web pages you are building.
Did I mention I hate MS?
Did I mention I hate MS?
g3neration
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killernotebooks
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Such venom...
but, then again, I understand. You can only transfer Vista licenses to another machine ONCE?!? What kinda bull**** is that?
The bad thing is that we can't effectively boycott Vista, because enthusiasts are like 5% of the computer market. So all those chumps out there who have no idea what a hard drive is will be feeding Vista.
The sad part is that there are still MS fanboys around who take this abuse as "good lovin'" There are a bunch of them around here.
On a side note, just stop reading Tom's Reviews and go to Hexus or HardOCP.
but, then again, I understand. You can only transfer Vista licenses to another machine ONCE?!? What kinda bull**** is that?
The bad thing is that we can't effectively boycott Vista, because enthusiasts are like 5% of the computer market. So all those chumps out there who have no idea what a hard drive is will be feeding Vista.
The sad part is that there are still MS fanboys around who take this abuse as "good lovin'" There are a bunch of them around here.
On a side note, just stop reading Tom's Reviews and go to Hexus or HardOCP.
killernotebooks
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Zorak you've said it exactly. This is simply a *horrible* review. The English mistakes are endless and the language sounds like that of a 17 year old. So many unsubstantiated claims... To take this review even a bit seriously, I would expect at least some drawbacks of the new system, just to appear balanced. Really, so everything is just candies is it? Not one single problem in a completely rewritten OS? Like, that Vista is completely out of reach for most 1-year old laptops? Sounds like a plain MS ad to me.
I hope this is some bad joke.
I hope this is some bad joke.
Oh Zorak, worry not. I think that half of my reason for living is to post on Toms Hardware pointing out how their quality has gone right down the flusher. In the beginning, well over a year ago... I was trashed by tons of readers. Anymore most are VERY open to it.
In fact... here is a funny little thing. Did you read the holiday buyer's guide? Now, granted, that thread went straight to hell and I am sorry for what happened to Sarah for that... but there were a couple interesting admissions, if you read between the line (I was going to point them out there but they had locked the thread by then).
1) Their editorial production coordinator has very little PC experience... I believe the quote was "As for my computer setup, I have the best. I work at Tom's Hardware, what do you expect? But to be honest, I have no idea what's inside of this beast. As long as it's fast and efficient, I am happy. And lucky for me, these gurus keep me well equipped."
So, you are the editorial production coordinator, and you are clueless when it comes to the subject matter of what your website publishes? Maybe an industry change might be in order... I mean, there is a difference between "I am not as sharp as some of the people that I work with" and "I have no idea what's inside".
The next one was the following... not just Sarah, but also charlesk both signed up just to reply to that thread. I guess that it shouldn't surprise anyone, but it seems interesting that the people who run Toms seem to have no connection with those that they post content for.
Not only that, but I (and others here, particularly those who have posted above me), can call their competency into question on a regular basis... and they don't seem to mind that (maybe they know it is true?), but by golly they will sign up when it involves the honor of a girl (OK, I can't fault him for that, quite frankly on that front he did right, just sad that he wasn't on beforehand).
As for Microsoft, I totally agree with you KillerNotebooks. In fact, I actually used to work there back in the Windows 2000 days... and back then I loved them. Yes they were reasonably greedy (as any company should be), but they still seemed to care about the consumer.
Anymore it is blatantly obvious that they don't care at all, and it is sad. If I could change MS... the first thing I would do is to go away from the generational approach to OS development, and go to the Linux incremental approach.
Imagine this... Microsoft Windows only 2 versions (client and server, maybe a 3rd for advanced servers (more than X # of physical processors or something). $100 or $150 for a client license, and you get to use Windows Update free for 4 years. After that, your license runs out and you can buy a new one for further updates. Changes are made and released on a regular basis, so it actually becomes reasonably worthwhile. Maybe instead you just pay $25/yr to extend your license on a yearly basis...
If you stop, that's fine. Your PC is left in its current state, and you just can't access the updates. Just to make sure that no one is pirating, the identity for each computer is a combination of something that is based off of the hardware and the CD-Key. You can upgrade and use as you want, and it will work seamlessly. Make a key upgrade and it will tie the new CD-Key to the new hardware, and that CD-Key will never work with the hardware that you moved away from again.
This way they still make a good profit, they get rid of pirating (just have to secure the system somehow... and they'd make a ton by just getting every version out there to be licensed), but it would be affordable and reasonable. It gives them the ongoing revenue that they want so badly, but in a way that isn't $400 each copy, or whatever... and then it gets rid of the constant (and bane of businesses everywhere) upgrade cycle.
Oh well, I can dream... but something tells me that other hand under my posterior will fill up first, unfortunately.
In fact... here is a funny little thing. Did you read the holiday buyer's guide? Now, granted, that thread went straight to hell and I am sorry for what happened to Sarah for that... but there were a couple interesting admissions, if you read between the line (I was going to point them out there but they had locked the thread by then).
1) Their editorial production coordinator has very little PC experience... I believe the quote was "As for my computer setup, I have the best. I work at Tom's Hardware, what do you expect? But to be honest, I have no idea what's inside of this beast. As long as it's fast and efficient, I am happy. And lucky for me, these gurus keep me well equipped."
So, you are the editorial production coordinator, and you are clueless when it comes to the subject matter of what your website publishes? Maybe an industry change might be in order... I mean, there is a difference between "I am not as sharp as some of the people that I work with" and "I have no idea what's inside".
The next one was the following... not just Sarah, but also charlesk both signed up just to reply to that thread. I guess that it shouldn't surprise anyone, but it seems interesting that the people who run Toms seem to have no connection with those that they post content for.
Not only that, but I (and others here, particularly those who have posted above me), can call their competency into question on a regular basis... and they don't seem to mind that (maybe they know it is true?), but by golly they will sign up when it involves the honor of a girl (OK, I can't fault him for that, quite frankly on that front he did right, just sad that he wasn't on beforehand).
As for Microsoft, I totally agree with you KillerNotebooks. In fact, I actually used to work there back in the Windows 2000 days... and back then I loved them. Yes they were reasonably greedy (as any company should be), but they still seemed to care about the consumer.
Anymore it is blatantly obvious that they don't care at all, and it is sad. If I could change MS... the first thing I would do is to go away from the generational approach to OS development, and go to the Linux incremental approach.
Imagine this... Microsoft Windows only 2 versions (client and server, maybe a 3rd for advanced servers (more than X # of physical processors or something). $100 or $150 for a client license, and you get to use Windows Update free for 4 years. After that, your license runs out and you can buy a new one for further updates. Changes are made and released on a regular basis, so it actually becomes reasonably worthwhile. Maybe instead you just pay $25/yr to extend your license on a yearly basis...
If you stop, that's fine. Your PC is left in its current state, and you just can't access the updates. Just to make sure that no one is pirating, the identity for each computer is a combination of something that is based off of the hardware and the CD-Key. You can upgrade and use as you want, and it will work seamlessly. Make a key upgrade and it will tie the new CD-Key to the new hardware, and that CD-Key will never work with the hardware that you moved away from again.
This way they still make a good profit, they get rid of pirating (just have to secure the system somehow... and they'd make a ton by just getting every version out there to be licensed), but it would be affordable and reasonable. It gives them the ongoing revenue that they want so badly, but in a way that isn't $400 each copy, or whatever... and then it gets rid of the constant (and bane of businesses everywhere) upgrade cycle.
Oh well, I can dream... but something tells me that other hand under my posterior will fill up first, unfortunately.
I couldn't help it, had to sign up to post this.
I check tomshardware almost daily, and I find it informative most of the time, but this article is the most obvious piece of PR I have seen in a long time. I am not sure who this article is meant to but I very much doubt it is for the readers of this site.
If it wasn't for the long time I've been a fan of this site, I would never come back again.
SC
I check tomshardware almost daily, and I find it informative most of the time, but this article is the most obvious piece of PR I have seen in a long time. I am not sure who this article is meant to but I very much doubt it is for the readers of this site.
If it wasn't for the long time I've been a fan of this site, I would never come back again.
SC
dragonhart
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sis booom rah.. gimmie an M.. gimmie an I...
yeesh.. is this article written by a Microsoft Cheerleader, or what?...
Oh ::gush:: its such a WONderful peice of software.. hurry, run out n buy the be$t hardware you can, right away, n get ready for the eye candy.. yummy.. so filling..
::groan::
yeesh.. is this article written by a Microsoft Cheerleader, or what?...
Oh ::gush:: its such a WONderful peice of software.. hurry, run out n buy the be$t hardware you can, right away, n get ready for the eye candy.. yummy.. so filling..
::groan::
killernotebooks
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Ok, here's my issue with the SS... er, MS.
I sent a notebook in for review at Tom's Hardware Mobility Guru. As a part of their testing process they reinstalled the OS. Now you have like 14 days to activate this thing right?
I get the notebook back, I go to turn it on, BAM! "You MUST activate this product you bought before using it!"
I was like, "Cheese-and-Rice." So I go to do the online activation, well, it won't do it. I have an internet connection and everything but it says it can't connect for some reeason. What happens when MS "activation server" doesn't respond? That's my problem now? So I put the thing away.
A day later I get back around to the thing and try again. Still can't connect. I figure, "Oh, maybe they didn't put the Ethernet drivers on or something." BUT I CAN'T PUT THEM ON OR EVEN CHECK BECAUSE MS HAS THE WHOLE FREAKING THING LOCKED DOWN! You can't get in through safe-mode you can't do anything but look at the MS nag screen and cringe as you think of calling into the telephone activation center.
"Oh, but you had 14 days." Oh, ok - so when I buy a car if I don't send in my vehical registration card GM is going to come put a Denver Boot on my car before work?
MS sucks and their strong arm tactics have gotten even worse with Vista. Being a second rate provider with massive amounts of security holes in their systems that they finally fix YEARS after an entire market segment is created to address them is idiocy! They create a OS that is so suceptable to Viri, Malware, Spyware and everything else then they justify the expense of the new OS because they wrote in their own fixes?!?
I have 2 crazy common sense ideas to problems that just T me off...
1. MS takes 1/100th of their "anti-piracy" budget and launches a strike on companies creating Malware programs and spyware. Why not actually do something that may IMPROVE your image guys.
And what's wrong with this picture?
You see what happens when you T me off MS! I have to figure out all the worlds problems when I don't have my games to play!!!
I sent a notebook in for review at Tom's Hardware Mobility Guru. As a part of their testing process they reinstalled the OS. Now you have like 14 days to activate this thing right?
I get the notebook back, I go to turn it on, BAM! "You MUST activate this product you bought before using it!"
I was like, "Cheese-and-Rice." So I go to do the online activation, well, it won't do it. I have an internet connection and everything but it says it can't connect for some reeason. What happens when MS "activation server" doesn't respond? That's my problem now? So I put the thing away.
A day later I get back around to the thing and try again. Still can't connect. I figure, "Oh, maybe they didn't put the Ethernet drivers on or something." BUT I CAN'T PUT THEM ON OR EVEN CHECK BECAUSE MS HAS THE WHOLE FREAKING THING LOCKED DOWN! You can't get in through safe-mode you can't do anything but look at the MS nag screen and cringe as you think of calling into the telephone activation center.
"Oh, but you had 14 days." Oh, ok - so when I buy a car if I don't send in my vehical registration card GM is going to come put a Denver Boot on my car before work?
MS sucks and their strong arm tactics have gotten even worse with Vista. Being a second rate provider with massive amounts of security holes in their systems that they finally fix YEARS after an entire market segment is created to address them is idiocy! They create a OS that is so suceptable to Viri, Malware, Spyware and everything else then they justify the expense of the new OS because they wrote in their own fixes?!?
I have 2 crazy common sense ideas to problems that just T me off...
1. MS takes 1/100th of their "anti-piracy" budget and launches a strike on companies creating Malware programs and spyware. Why not actually do something that may IMPROVE your image guys.
And what's wrong with this picture?
2. This is some pretty hard stuff to figure out! But, hey, we're serious about finding an alternative fuel boy, we spend the yearly budget for that in 7 days on the WAR ON TERROR! Use the freaking $10 Billion a month we spend on the war to develop an alternative fuel and make the entire middle east a moot point. Take away their ONE resource everyone needs! There's your LONG TERM solution! I wonder if any other countries would want to buy that technology... hmmmmm.
You see what happens when you T me off MS! I have to figure out all the worlds problems when I don't have my games to play!!!
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