Doonesbury

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In article <cvviif$27qc$2@msunews.cl.msu.edu> georgeh@gjhsun.cl.msu.edu writes:

> So bring back full LP-sized covers. They were often more fun than the
> records they contained. And they were useful, too, for "separating" things.
> That might pump up sales!

Well, there are CD box sets. Talk about expensive for mostly old
music! Nice books for the most part, though. Hope the authors are well
paid since the musicians are often dead.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
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In article <jay-45D78C.09102828022005@news.stanford.edu> jay@ccrma.stanford.edu writes:

> When CDs first came out, I really lamentedthe end of the album cover. But
> after
> years of producing CD booklets, I think we still have a nice artwork medium to
> work with.

But as CD covers are maturing, so are we. I can't read the fine print
any more.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

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In article <9sOdnbMRGZvJ7r7fRVn-sQ@golden.net> trashtrash@christian-horizons.org writes:

> That said, the "solution" is actually pretty simple. Mark the CD down
> to about $8 or $9, where it should be. (Not sure where that exact
> amount should be, but it should be competitive with the hassle and
> annoyance of having to download).

So what do you propose eliminating in order to be able to do that? A
few high salaries? MTV videos? Radio airplay?

Maybe they can just advertise on the Internet because it's free.

> Don't believe me? What is Google selling?

Advertising. Maybe when you play a CD there would be hidden tracks
that play ads for new hip clothing or microwave ovens or beer. And you
might find the Home Depot logo on your jacket artwork.

> Explain to me again why the government should step in and restrict
> technologies and prosecute people just to protect the music industry...

Who said that? It's not the Government's business to restrict
technology, but it is their business to prosecute people who break
laws, even if breaking laws promotes new technology.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

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"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cvvlut$5ae$1@panix2.panix.com...

>>> Who taped anything off the radio?
>>
>>I did. And I don't appreciate you being coy here.
>
> So you've established yourself as being a thief. This means that all
> of your talk about how the theft is due to the new technology is all
> meaningless, because you have a history of theivery that predates it.


So now everyone that taped something off of the radio is a thief too? What
about the VCR?
I guess you are more interested in being right morally and technically than
actually contributing to the success of music in a post file sharing world.


> I don't think you, of all people, can say anything constructive about
> this "revolution" of which you speak, therefore.


Having grown up with a love for computers and music I highly doubt that. I
understand that you want to kill the messenger since you are so personally
affected by the new wave of doing things. But it isn't going to help the
situation by shooting salt at those crazy immoral kids. The thing you have
to understand here is I am a musician myself, and I WANT bands to get paid.
But I am also realistic about the changes happening. I also hope you realize
the damage done by the industry itself to turn kids to "theives".


>>It would be much more useful to put our heads together to come up with
>>ideas
>>to help the industry promote music online. I know they can continue to
>>prosper if they get with the program and sales in stores are still going
>>to
>>be around. I think most people become involved in music because of their
>>love for it (not money). It is time to face the facts that copyright laws
>>are going to have to be amended in the future to cater to the revolution
>>we
>>are seeing online. Resistance is futile.
>
> You keep saying this. But promoting music online is easy. It's making
> money off of music that is free which is hard. I don't think you even
> have any remote clue about what you're actually saying.


Having taken music business classes from a pioneer in the record and radio
branch (Christopher Knab) I feel I know exactly what I'm talking about. I
had your opinion on file sharing before his classes. Obviously I have a
different view now.

--
-hev
remove "your opinion" to find me:
www.michaelYOURspringerOPINION.com
http/www.freeiPods.com/?r=14089013

 

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In article <cvvp5v$a5n$1@panix2.panix.com>, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
wrote:

[snip]

> One weird thing is that in the seventies and eighties, there were people
> who would tape records off the radio even though they owned the disc, because
> they liked the way the broadcast compression sounded. That always scared
> me a little bit as a broadcast guy who knew just how horrible typical
> airchains were.
>

I think that's because the compressed broadcast sounded better on a cassette
than the straight output of the turntable did. Especially if you played it in
the car.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http/www.offbeats.com/ x
x---------- http/ccrma.stanford.edu/~jay/ ------------x

 

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In article <jay-2FB5DA.10551828022005@news.stanford.edu> jay@ccrma.stanford.edu writes:

> > there were people
> > who would tape records off the radio even though they owned the disc, because
> > they liked the way the broadcast compression sounded.

> I think that's because the compressed broadcast sounded better on a cassette
> than the straight output of the turntable did. Especially if you played it in
> the car.

I thought that was what Dolby B was for.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers (mrivers@d-and-d.com)
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me here: double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

 

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Jay Kadis <jay@ccrma.stanford.edu> wrote:
>In article <cvvp5v$a5n$1@panix2.panix.com>, kludge@panix.com (Scott Dorsey)
>wrote:
>
>> One weird thing is that in the seventies and eighties, there were people
>> who would tape records off the radio even though they owned the disc, because
>> they liked the way the broadcast compression sounded. That always scared
>> me a little bit as a broadcast guy who knew just how horrible typical
>> airchains were.
>
>I think that's because the compressed broadcast sounded better on a cassette
>than the straight output of the turntable did. Especially if you played it in
>the car.

THAT is the scary part. I still have nightmares about Volumaxes.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

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"Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
news:cvvlgd01ucp@enews3.newsguy.com...
>
>
> hank alrich wrote:
>
>> Whoever thought that after reaching a world population of 6.5 billion
>> humans we would face a reality that will reduce us to a third of that,
>> max?
>
> That book shook you up, eh? Me too. Sorta makes this whole discussion
> moot, actually.


Sorry I missed the conversation. What book are you referring to? I'm
assuming it is one based around the theory that we won't have enough food in
30 years because of the environmental issues we face today?

What book? I'll add it to my "need to read" list.

Thanks


--
-hev
remove "your opinion" to find me:
www.michaelYOURspringerOPINION.com
http/www.freeiPods.com/?r=14089013

 

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hev wrote:

>>Sorry I missed the conversation. What book are you referring to? I'm
>>assuming it is one based around the theory that we won't have enough food
>>in 30 years because of the environmental issues we face today?
>
>
>
> Or is it not enough food because of the lack of oil to produce energy needed
> to create the food?

_The Party's Over_
Richard Heinberg
New Society Publishers
ISBN 0-86571-482-7


There's a shortage of a whole lot more than food comin' and
comin' like a freight train.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

 

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"Bob Cain" <arcane@arcanemethods.com> wrote in message
news:cvvur402bba@enews3.newsguy.com...
>
>
> hev wrote:
>
>>>Sorry I missed the conversation. What book are you referring to? I'm
>>>assuming it is one based around the theory that we won't have enough food
>>>in 30 years because of the environmental issues we face today?
>>
>>
>>
>> Or is it not enough food because of the lack of oil to produce energy
>> needed to create the food?
>
> _The Party's Over_
> Richard Heinberg
> New Society Publishers
> ISBN 0-86571-482-7
>
>
> There's a shortage of a whole lot more than food comin' and comin' like a
> freight train.


Thanks. It is on the way to me as we speak!



--

-Hev
remove your opinion to find me here:
www.michaelYOURspringerOPINION.com
http/www.freeiPods.com/?r=14089013

 

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"Troy" <alternate-root@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:gQzUd.524808$6l.343132@pd7tw2no...
> You should refrase that last line to read
>
> "You have a better chance of falling out of an airplane than you do of
> making a living as a musician period."
>
Hmm - I've never fallen out of an airplane, but I've made a living as a
musician (and engineer) for more than 30 years. And so have most of the
people I work with. I guess we're just lucky.

--
Dave Martin
DMA, Inc
Nashville, TN

 

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"Troy" <alternate-root@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:yrHUd.526301$Xk.255642@pd7tw3no...
> If you are unwilling to grow your business with the times then you may
find
> yourself out of work one day.I hope not but it is the reality in a
changing
> world.

How do you equate 'growing your business' to 'free music'? You can't grow
without your income growing, and if the music is free, where is that money
coming from?

--
Dave Martin
DMA, Inc
Nashville, TN

 

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On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 00:48:56 GMT, walkinay@thegrid.net (hank alrich)
wrote:

>play_on wrote:
>
>> In spite of you guys ridiculing Troy, there are indeed artists who
>> have become known thru the internet first. Instead of mocking him,
>> maybe you guys should go look it up and see if you can prove him
>> wrong.
>
>Al,
>
>If this Internet fame thing is happening, and some of y'all are telling
>us it is, then why is it none of you can come up with names?

I read stories and interviews, but if it's not an artist that I know
well, or that I am interested in, I don't retain all the information.
It does not follow however that I am making it all up or that it
didn't happen. I read a LOT of stuff, plus being over 50 I admit my
memory isn't what it used to be... can't speak for Tony's excuse
though.

Al

 

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On 28 Feb 2005 18:30:22 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

>
>In article <cvviif$27qc$2@msunews.cl.msu.edu> georgeh@gjhsun.cl.msu.edu writes:
>
>> So bring back full LP-sized covers. They were often more fun than the
>> records they contained. And they were useful, too, for "separating" things.
>> That might pump up sales!
>
>Well, there are CD box sets. Talk about expensive for mostly old
>music! Nice books for the most part, though. Hope the authors are well
>paid since the musicians are often dead.

There is something bothersome about paying $120 for a CD box set that
was music made by and for poor folks two or three generations ago.
Figure original sessions have been paid for about 1,000,000 times
already... but we still have to pay $65 for the Hank Williams box.
Remember when older music sold for cheap?

Al

 

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"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cvvp5v$a5n$1@panix2.panix.com...

>>Having taken music business classes from a pioneer in the record and radio
>>branch (Christopher Knab) I feel I know exactly what I'm talking about. I
>>had your opinion on file sharing before his classes. Obviously I have a
>>different view now.
>
> What made you change your view? Clearly if Mr. Knab has a good argument,
> you have not been able to present it very effectively.


The message was simple: The industry must adapt or die.
There is no silver bullet answer here but the first step is to embrace how
the youth of today are using and interacting with music. Declaring them
thieves, as you have done, will only further alienate them and does nothing
to solve the problem.

Being picky about or trying to defend outdated copyright laws will be the
industry's demise.

--
-hev
remove "your opinion" to find me:
www.michaelYOURspringerOPINION.com
http/www.freeiPods.com/?r=14089013

 

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"Lorin David Schultz" <Lorin@DAMNSPAM!v5v.ca> wrote in message
news:gvOUd.21210$_G.4283@clgrps12...

> Look Mike, I have no doubt whatsoever that, at your age, you really are
> passionate about bringing change to the industry. Maybe you see a better
> way, or maybe you just still harbour resentment over your time at Tower
> Records, I dunno. Either way, I applaud your energy.


I have fond memories of my days at Tower. From my "to buy" bin and spending
my paycheck on its contents. To the people I met while working there, some
of whom I am still in touch with. When I move ahead as an audio engineer and
musician I will have another perspective to draw from where the product
meets the customer. So of course I understand how people down the chain need
to be paid. I want musicians to be paid and I want the industry to prosper.


> The point is that you aren't really offering any positive constructs or
> workable scenarios for achieving what you want. In fact, you haven't
> really defined what it IS that you want, except for free downloads.


Why not have a piece of software that tracks downloads, sells advertising
space and pays royalties? Links could direct listeners to the bands label
website where the CD and other merchandise could be offered, mailing list
info could be collected, information about the bands tour would
automatically show up as the visual for more potential profit.

If you can't beat em' (AND YOU CAN'T), join em'...

I think the key is this:
P2P isn't going away so to defeat it you must strike its weaknesses. P2P is
slow and leaves you vulnerable to virus attacks. If you offer the content at
high download speeds you then have your user there in a somewhat controlled
manner, leaving the possibility of advertising revenue and possible sales.

--

-Hev
remove your opinion to find me here:
www.michaelYOURspringerOPINION.com

 

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play_on <playonAT@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>It's a cultural thing that I doubt will change easily, or anytime
>soon. Chinese don't have the same feeling about "originality" as
>westerners do... for example to many Chinese, an exact copy of an
>ancient temple, sculpture, or painting is as good as the real thing.

I don't know... three hundred years ago, the feeling about originality
in the West was very different too. The Chinese catch up fast.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

 

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"Scott Dorsey" <kludge@panix.com> wrote in message
news:cvvtjp$kv8$1@panix2.panix.com...

>>>>Having taken music business classes from a pioneer in the record and
>>>>radio
>>>>branch (Christopher Knab) I feel I know exactly what I'm talking about.
>>>>I
>>>>had your opinion on file sharing before his classes. Obviously I have a
>>>>different view now.
>>>
>>> What made you change your view? Clearly if Mr. Knab has a good
>>> argument,
>>> you have not been able to present it very effectively.
>>
>>The message was simple: The industry must adapt or die.
>
> Yes, but how do you propose it adapt?
> Until someone proposes something that will actually work, you should
> expect people to be reluctant to allow things to die.


Embracing the MP3 instead of fighting it would have been insightful.
Unfortunately the industry has been anything but insightful when it comes to
online matters or their audience for that matter. That is why bands such as
Fugazi did so well selling CD's at $9 a pop in the 90's.

Offering all records online for free would bring hoards of people to your
website. Then you could offer the CD for sale, related merchandise, sell
advertising space, compile a user mailing list, have fan interaction with
bands, offer live performances that could be sponsored, promote the bands
tour. I'm sure with a little help we could brainstorm many more creative
ideas to make money.


>>There is no silver bullet answer here but the first step is to embrace how
>>the youth of today are using and interacting with music. Declaring them
>>thieves, as you have done, will only further alienate them and does
>>nothing
>>to solve the problem.
>
> But they are thieves. I don't see how that changes anything. I don't
> see how technology in any way makes morality "outdated."


They are only thieves because the law is outdated. There is plenty of
opportunity for advertisement on the internet lending itself as a great tool
for a royalty per download type system like we have on the radio.

File sharing isn't going away, lets try to adapt to it.
--
-hev
remove "your opinion" to find me:
www.michaelYOURspringerOPINION.com
http/www.freeiPods.com/?r=14089013

 

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On 28 Feb 2005 21:23:01 -0500, mrivers@d-and-d.com (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

>Ah, but I want my Internet WITHOUT advertising. I'm already paying
>monthly for the service. Why should I be distracted with ads? I don't
>get an ad every time I make a phone call. (OK, so I get ads when I
>read Mix, but then I don't pay for Mix)

Hey they have ads on cable TV too (remember them touting ad-free "pay
TV"?) And now you can go to the movies, pay $9 for a ticket and watch
20 minutes of commercials and previews.

 

[Troy]

Archived from groups: rec.audio.pro (More info?)

You need to go back and read some of the conversation.



Dave Martin <dmainc@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:uPJUd.9928$Ba3.7014@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "Troy" <alternate-root@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:yrHUd.526301$Xk.255642@pd7tw3no...
> > If you are unwilling to grow your business with the times then you may
> find
> > yourself out of work one day.I hope not but it is the reality in a
> changing
> > world.
>
> How do you equate 'growing your business' to 'free music'? You can't grow
> without your income growing, and if the music is free, where is that money
> coming from?
>
> --
> Dave Martin
> DMA, Inc
> Nashville, TN
>
>
>
>
>