DVD and DVI output

[bill]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Man this stuff is confusing for a consumer. Is that on purpose?

I have a few questions, which I'm sure pointers to a few FAQs or
articles would answer.

Ok, I'm looking at direct view CRT 30" HDTV monitor. At BestBuy today
I was told that using a DVD player with DVI output will make a BIG
difference. At another store I was told that DVI on DVD players will
only make a difference in the future when there's HD DVDs. I don't
really understand DVI, but I think they are both wrong.

I've read the threads here about DVI vs. component and understand
there's some room for debate -- and what's better depends a lot on
other bits of hardware in the signal path. But, in general, DVI is
really best when the display is digital (pixel addressed, not scanned)
like LCD. Is that correct?

And in my case with a CRT display, the issue with component vs. DVI is
where the D/A converter is located. If I use a DVI output on a DVD
player the D/A is in the monitor and if I use component out from DVD
then D/A in the DVD player. I'm sure it's not that simple, but is
that somewhat close?

Next question, at BestBuy the 30" CRT Samsung (TX-P3071WH, I think)
seemed to have the best image, IMO, and the sales staff said it was
one of the best quality units. Of course, the other video store
suggested Samsung is great for projection TVs, but stay away from
CRTs. How do I follow up on those two points of view? Any
recomendations on 30" or so monitors < $1500? The bulk of those
direct view CRTs is what I don't like.

BTW -- any pointers to where I can learn more about how a DVD image is
displayed? I can grasp how a DVD can be displayed on my computer
screen in its native resolution (720x480?) but don't really understand
what happens to that image on the HDTV monitor (such as the Samsung
above). Is the image simply scaled in a similar way as when I tell
mplayer or xine to run full-screen?

Thanks very much,

 

[Eric]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I'll make an attempt to answer some of your questions.

> Man this stuff is confusing for a consumer. Is that on purpose?

LOL. It could very well be.

> Ok, I'm looking at direct view CRT 30" HDTV monitor.

I'm curious as to which 30" CRT HDTV monitor you were looking at.
I just picked one up not too long ago for the bedroom. (Philips
30PW8402/37)
Overall, I've been happy with it. There are a few minor things that are
slightly annoying though.
If this is the set you were looking at, I'll describe them.

> At BestBuy today

I didn't get the above monitor from Best Buy, but I know BB has been pimping
this monitor heavily.
(One of reasons I thought it may be monitor you were looking at.)

> I was told that using a DVD player with DVI output will make a BIG
> difference.

I don't know about a "BIG" difference, except perhaps on the wallet. I'm
using component cables with DVD and it's perfectly fine. In fact, on a HDTV
monitor, you see all the imperfections and artifacting of DVD on a CRT. If
anything, it seems that DVI would make these imperfection slighly more
visable. (I keep the sharpness cranked for HD content, but turn it down a
couple notches for DVD.)

> At another store I was told that DVI on DVD players will
> only make a difference in the future when there's HD DVDs. I don't
> really understand DVI, but I think they are both wrong.

Now, that does make better sense -- DVI should make a difference with
*HD-DVD* players, but not current DVD players. Current DVD players won't be
able to use HD-DVD's. Of course, with a CRT, again the difference between
component and DVI may only be barely noticable.

If this helps any: with the Philips (which has a DVI input) and the cable
company's HD STB (Pace), I compared component over DVI. I, honestly, could
not tell any difference with 1080i content (Discovery HD Theater). I
couldn't tell any difference between the two sets of cables and comparing
480p (DVD). I have the STB set to "Pass", so it just passes resolutions
that are broadcasted without converting. (This box's 480 --> 1080i is
horrible.) For 720p content, I have to temporarily change the STB to
convert to 1080i and then back to "Pass" when going back to any other
480/1080i channel. (A little annoying sometimes.)

> But, in general, DVI is
> really best when the display is digital (pixel addressed, not scanned)
> like LCD. Is that correct?

Yep

> And in my case with a CRT display, the issue with component vs. DVI is
> where the D/A converter is located. If I use a DVI output on a DVD
> player the D/A is in the monitor and if I use component out from DVD
> then D/A in the DVD player. I'm sure it's not that simple, but is
> that somewhat close?

Yep. Somewhere along the way for a CRT, there needs to be D/A conversion.
LOL, but -- and you'll love this -- DVI can be digital, analog, or even a
combination of the two!
(Yes, I know. Welcome to the fun!) Look at the specs for DVI-D, DVI-A,
DVI-I...

> Next question, at BestBuy the 30" CRT Samsung (TX-P3071WH, I think)
> seemed to have the best image, IMO, and the sales staff said it was
> one of the best quality units. Of course, the other video store
> suggested Samsung is great for projection TVs, but stay away from
> CRTs. How do I follow up on those two points of view? Any
> recomendations on 30" or so monitors < $1500? The bulk of those
> direct view CRTs is what I don't like.

Sorry, I suppose if I had read your entire post before beginning to reply, I
wouldn't had asked if it was the Philips you were looking at. :^)

As a general rule, 90 percent of anything BB tells you is BS. I use BB
solely as a "showroom". Whenever I'm wanting a new toy, I do comparisons
and read reviews online. Once I start zeroing in a few to decide between, I
check out BB's website to see if they sell them. If they do, I head over
and take a physical look -- and then head back home to order them online
from elsewhere, taxfree and without being hassled for "extended warranties"
and Monster cables.

Based on DVI above, it does sound like the "other store" is leading you
along a better path than BB. Is this a small retailer?

Lots of info on web. Just read reviews and comparisons and you'll zero in
on exactly what you want.

> BTW -- any pointers to where I can learn more about how a DVD image is
> displayed? I can grasp how a DVD can be displayed on my computer
> screen in its native resolution (720x480?) but don't really understand
> what happens to that image on the HDTV monitor (such as the Samsung
> above). Is the image simply scaled in a similar way as when I tell
> mplayer or xine to run full-screen?

alt.video.dvd's FAQ.

http/www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html

> Thanks very much,

Your welcome. Hopefully it was of some help.

 

[Eric]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

After re-reading my own reply, I saw that I wrote something that was
incorrect.

Sorry, all these acronyms its easy to write the wrong thing!

> If this helps any: with the Philips (which has a DVI input) and the cable
> company's HD STB (Pace), I compared component over DVI.

Change that to:

> If this helps any: with the Philips (which has an *HDMI* input) and the
cable
> company's HD STB (Pace), I compared component over *HDMI*

Essentially, HDMI is the same thing as DVI (well, DVI/HDCP anyway), except
it carries a sound signal with it.
(I didn't use the sound off the TV anyway. Sound is going to DD receiver by
fiber.)

More damn acronyms. :^)

-Eric

 

[Richard]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

On a fixed pixel digital display a digital video input involves fewer format
conversions and eliminates at least two analog to digital conversion steps.
People have reported improved video quality.

On a scan display a digital to analog conversion is necessary. However, on
both a scan display and a fixed pixel display running 480i digital video
feed into the set may be superior for two reasons:

1. The set may do a better job with format conversion (especially if the
fixed display is not a standard 480, 720 or 1080 horizontal resolution).

2. The set may be able to provide more display adjustments than the DVD or
cable box, all with the TV's remote.

Richard.

 

[Mike]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"Bill" <gg@hank.org> wrote in message
news:43125ccc.0408252220.3e67873f@posting.google.com...
> Man this stuff is confusing for a consumer. Is that on purpose?
>
> I have a few questions, which I'm sure pointers to a few FAQs or
> articles would answer.
>
> Ok, I'm looking at direct view CRT 30" HDTV monitor. At BestBuy today
> I was told that using a DVD player with DVI output will make a BIG
> difference. At another store I was told that DVI on DVD players will
> only make a difference in the future when there's HD DVDs. I don't
> really understand DVI, but I think they are both wrong.
>
> I've read the threads here about DVI vs. component and understand
> there's some room for debate -- and what's better depends a lot on
> other bits of hardware in the signal path. But, in general, DVI is
> really best when the display is digital (pixel addressed, not scanned)
> like LCD. Is that correct?
>
> And in my case with a CRT display, the issue with component vs. DVI is
> where the D/A converter is located. If I use a DVI output on a DVD
> player the D/A is in the monitor and if I use component out from DVD
> then D/A in the DVD player. I'm sure it's not that simple, but is
> that somewhat close?
>
> Next question, at BestBuy the 30" CRT Samsung (TX-P3071WH, I think)
> seemed to have the best image, IMO, and the sales staff said it was
> one of the best quality units. Of course, the other video store
> suggested Samsung is great for projection TVs, but stay away from
> CRTs. How do I follow up on those two points of view? Any
> recomendations on 30" or so monitors < $1500? The bulk of those
> direct view CRTs is what I don't like.
>
> BTW -- any pointers to where I can learn more about how a DVD image is
> displayed? I can grasp how a DVD can be displayed on my computer
> screen in its native resolution (720x480?) but don't really understand
> what happens to that image on the HDTV monitor (such as the Samsung
> above). Is the image simply scaled in a similar way as when I tell
> mplayer or xine to run full-screen?
>
> Thanks very much,

Bill,

Look at the Zenith DVB318 (Amazon $159), it is one of the hottest DVD
players on the market. It has a DCDI chip and will upconvert (Component or
DVI) a DVD to 720p or 1080i. I just got mine and I love it.

Mike




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http/www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

 

[Eric]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

> Look at the Zenith DVB318 (Amazon $159), it is one of the hottest DVD
> players on the market. It has a DCDI chip and will upconvert (Component
or
> DVI) a DVD to 720p or 1080i. I just got mine and I love it.

Hmm! Interesting. I didn't even consider the possibility of a DVD player
that does conversions.

I just took a quick glance at the specs, along with a couple reviews, and it
does look very tempting at that price!

Already have so many DVD players now though. LOL. Any more, and the
bathrooms will have DVD players in them too.

The conversion is what is catching my eye. I just glanced at a couple spec
sheets, but didn't see what video inputs it has. Can it convert a video
passthrough. I.e., if 480i/p is coming from a cable box, could this player
convert it to 1080i? Cable box I have does, but the conversion is terrible.
I keep it set at Pass, so it just passes through whatever the broadcast
resolution is for each channel. Since the CRT I'm using it with doesn't do
anything with 720p, its a little annoying to have to change the STB's
setting every time going into/out of a 720p channel.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

The DVD-CCA CSS Procedural Specification says that *analog* outputs are
capped at 480p/525p, thus the only significant image enhancements that were
allowed on the DVD's 480i content was de-interlacing.

When the spec was revised last year, *digital* outputs (DVI with HDCP,
IEEE-1394 with DTCP) were finally authorized, and no resolution cap was
placed on the digital outputs, so much of the excitement over DVI is that
DVD Players can do scale-up tricks on the 480i content, to produce for
example, simulated 720p.

Thomas Gilg

 

[bill]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

"news.cup.hp.com" <thomasDELME_gilgDELME@hpDELME.com> wrote in message news:<C%rXc.8867$Y05.7242@news.cpqcorp.net>...
> The DVD-CCA CSS Procedural Specification says that *analog* outputs are
> capped at 480p/525p, thus the only significant image enhancements that were
> allowed on the DVD's 480i content was de-interlacing.

I.e. progressive scan. Correct?

> When the spec was revised last year, *digital* outputs (DVI with HDCP,
> IEEE-1394 with DTCP) were finally authorized, and no resolution cap was
> placed on the digital outputs, so much of the excitement over DVI is that
> DVD Players can do scale-up tricks on the 480i content, to produce for
> example, simulated 720p.

Ok, what's all that mean? It's not that there's magically more
information for display. What's the difference between the DVD player
upscaling vs. the HD monitor scaling a 480p DVD to fit the screen? Is
there an advantage of the DVD player doing the scalaing?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

Bill wrote:
> Ok, what's all that mean? It's not that there's magically more
> information for display. What's the difference between the DVD player
> upscaling vs. the HD monitor scaling a 480p DVD to fit the screen?

If all the image processing (de-interlacing, frame-rate conversion, scaling,
temporal-based resolution enhancement) is co-located, and have the benefit
of accessing the original video information (the MPEG-2 file with all its
encoding options), then a well designed DVD Player should be able to produce
a better picture than splitting the image processing job between two
devices, and the second image processing block (the monitor) getting a
normalized generified video stream (a DVI bistream).

I don't know if the current crop of DVI-enabled DVD players are taking
advantage of this opportunity, but it is there.

Thomas Gilg

 

[stuart]

Archived from groups: alt.tv.tech.hdtv (More info?)

I am considering building a PC based home entertainment system using
this Samsung HDTV as the monitor due to the fact of the DVI connection
and IMO, has the best pic quality from what I've seen. Is that
possible to do that and not have distortions or issues with the video
quality using PC applications/games? Any comments/input/advice is
greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Stu