One thing I need to know about AMD vs Nvidia

Mhmd1993

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Jul 29, 2015
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Hi everyone :) my laptop can't run new games properly so I guess it's time to build my first desktop pc.
I initially decided to go with the GTX 970, i did a lot of research because I want my GPU to be relatively future proof (ie : to be able to run games without problems for the next 3 years). I found that Nvidia intentionally downgrades kepler GPUs just to sell more Maxwell GPUs, as new drivers for kepler GPUs appear to be suscipiously unoptimized for current gen games. This can be seen in a lot of benchmarks for modern games where the 970 outperforms the 780 Ti ! (Or the 960 outperforming the 780). I read from some forums that some 780 Ti actually had their performance decreased just after downloading the recent driver !
Now it will be really annoying for me if I buy a 970 and nvidia downgrades it once they release new GPUs (specially because prices in my country are 50% more expensive than in the US). That makes me consider AMD 390. But my question is :
Does AMD provide a better support for their old cards ? I mean, do old AMD cards perform better than similar old nvidia cards in recent games ?
Also, should directx 12 affect my decision ?
thanks in advance ^^
 

Martin1982

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Sep 30, 2014
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Hmm good question. I have newer had any issues with old cards performaning terrible gtx 570/580/650/670/780 amd hd 6850/r9 280.. Im not sure it's a huge thing really. And maybe things will change a bit with directx 12 and cards that support directx 12
 

corndog1836

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http://www.google.com/search?q=970+vs+780+ti+performance&biw=360&bih=615&prmd=vs&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAGoVChMI8_WCwsP_xgIVC3Y-Ch3_dwh7#imgrc=DSjEX8Oii3aAoM%3A
Dx12 IS going to make things better but i dont think it will be a large enough difference to yell out
"WOW" and thats when games are finally using dx12. Who know when? Here is a bencemark with 780ti beating 970 970 by 10 fps in unigene valley which is a very reputable gpu benchmarking program. 780ti beats s 970 no doubt. Some benchmarks show 780ti beating 980 but mostly show 980 at a 3 to 5% increase. Id example they are dead even. You have to look at sll the pc parts like ssd, cpu, a nd even ram to really get accuracy on fps. And a new driver came out addessing tje kepler series addressing the kepler fps issues.
Amd is good and so is nvidea. And kepler will support dx12 as,wel so dont let that discourage you. And future proof is a myth..by the way i havd 2 780tis in sli,(see rig in sig) i get crazy high 100+ frame rates in metro last light.
 

Mhmd1993

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Jul 29, 2015
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@Martin1982 so if you tried both companies then which one do you think has a better driver support ? I don't know about this subject because the nvidia gpu on my laptop was terrible / low end so drivers won't change that
@gam3r01 this is one example of nvidia neglecting old cards http://www.techspot.com/review/1000-project-cars-benchmarks/page6.html
Also this is where I saw a lot of Kepler owners complaining https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/831639/geforce-700-600-series/nvidia-is-deliberately-downgrading-kepler-gpus-performance-in-favor-of-maxwell-/1/
 

Gam3r01

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Nvidia is more focused on keeping their high end, next gen hardware running at its best, and older architectures take second priority. There may be a game where Nvidia pushes driver updates for maxwell, and has yet to for kepler, but that is NOT the same thing as reducing their performance. Its not like someone sits down at Nvidia and makes drivers to hobble older cards.

As an owner of both, AMD had worse (mildly) drivers back when I used them, however both are nearly the same in terms of quality and stability these days.
 

Mhmd1993

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Jul 29, 2015
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@corndog1836.. doesn't that reputable benchmark prove that 780 ti is a much better gpu than 970 ? So how could the 970 beat the 780 Ti in *NEW* games benchmarks ? I'm not experienced in this subject but It has to be related to drivers right ?
@gam3r01 so that means I can't go wrong with either the 970 or the 390 in terms of drivers ?
 

Gam3r01

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Either will be fine in terms of drivers. By the logic of killing cards through drivers: What about the next generation, those would eventually be phased out too.
Its in your best interest to get what performs best now. Unless you are a few weeks for a major launch, its not worth waiting. Its usually all hype and no performance.
 

Martin1982

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For me it's really about how much performance I and silence I can get for my money. Bought a asus r9 290x oc very much noise heat and a crash almost every day. Terrible card. Bought a used gigabyte gtx 780 silent fast no issues. And my r9 280 top runs great too
 

Mhmd1993

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Jul 29, 2015
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Gam3r01..I'm quite busy with my university at the moment so I will build my pc right at the beginning of 2016. As I said, prices are 50% more expensive in my country, and I don't plan to spend more than maybe $1200.
Martin1982 yes I know that AMD has problems with heat and power consumption, I'm keeping that in mind. But on the other hand, the AMD 390 has 8 Vram instead of the 3.5 on the 970, I know that 3.5 is enough for now but it's definitely not as "future proof" as the 390
 

Gam3r01

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When you go to build, sit down and compare cards again, who knows, things may be different then.
Planning that far ahead is usually a waste of time, as things change rapidly.
 

Mhmd1993

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Yep that's right, and i will also consider the new games like fallout 4. However the best case scenario for me is the GTX 980 (or maybe the 980 ti) prices fall enough for me to afford one ^^
 

corndog1836

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http://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&ei=CY64VZ3VN4mpe5T4usAO&q=970+fps&oq=970+fps&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.1.0.0l5.2702.11703.0.14371.16.12.3.5.5.0.425.1968.2j8j0j1j1.12.0....0...1.1.64.mobile-gws-hp..0.16.1365.3.AljlAWhKFqQ#imgrc=hgpFYv0RI2kcEM%3A

http://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&ei=CY64VZ3VN4mpe5T4usAO&q=970+fps&oq=970+fps&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.1.0.0l5.2702.11703.0.14371.16.12.3.5.5.0.425.1968.2j8j0j1j1.12.0....0...1.1.64.mobile-gws-hp..0.16.1365.3.AljlAWhKFqQ#imgrc=UhZUO1UK7b6_mM%3A

http://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&ei=CY64VZ3VN4mpe5T4usAO&q=970+fps&oq=970+fps&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.1.0.0l5.2702.11703.0.14371.16.12.3.5.5.0.425.1968.2j8j0j1j1.12.0....0...1.1.64.mobile-gws-hp..0.16.1365.3.AljlAWhKFqQ#imgrc=yhFcMpHOovukFM%3A
http://www.kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/grid-autosport-4k1.png

http://cdn.eteknix.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/gainwardgtx970_graphs_metro1.png

http://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&ei=CY64VZ3VN4mpe5T4usAO&q=970+fps&oq=970+fps&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.1.0.0l5.2702.11703.0.14371.16.12.3.5.5.0.425.1968.2j8j0j1j1.12.0....0...1.1.64.mobile-gws-hp..0.16.1365.3.AljlAWhKFqQ#imgrc=Mrr1No1xurzxQM%3A

http://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&ei=CY64VZ3VN4mpe5T4usAO&q=970+fps&oq=970+fps&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.1.0.0l5.2702.11703.0.14371.16.12.3.5.5.0.425.1968.2j8j0j1j1.12.0....0...1.1.64.mobile-gws-hp..0.16.1365.3.AljlAWhKFqQ#imgrc=9jFmeYXutgmirM%3A

http://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&ei=CY64VZ3VN4mpe5T4usAO&q=970+fps&oq=970+fps&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.1.0.0l5.2702.11703.0.14371.16.12.3.5.5.0.425.1968.2j8j0j1j1.12.0....0...1.1.64.mobile-gws-hp..0.16.1365.3.AljlAWhKFqQ#imgrc=ZgLZ7siRSP0-gM%3A

http://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&ei=CY64VZ3VN4mpe5T4usAO&q=970+fps&oq=970+fps&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.1.0.0l5.2702.11703.0.14371.16.12.3.5.5.0.425.1968.2j8j0j1j1.12.0....0...1.1.64.mobile-gws-hp..0.16.1365.3.AljlAWhKFqQ#imgrc=2NbY4WO0lJ72HM%3A

http://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&ei=CY64VZ3VN4mpe5T4usAO&q=970+fps&oq=970+fps&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.1.0.0l5.2702.11703.0.14371.16.12.3.5.5.0.425.1968.2j8j0j1j1.12.0....0...1.1.64.mobile-gws-hp..0.16.1365.3.AljlAWhKFqQ#imgrc=IZOJ9dSAP9NCNM%3A

http://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&ei=CY64VZ3VN4mpe5T4usAO&q=970+fps&oq=970+fps&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.1.0.0l5.2702.11703.0.14371.16.12.3.5.5.0.425.1968.2j8j0j1j1.12.0....0...1.1.64.mobile-gws-hp..0.16.1365.3.AljlAWhKFqQ#imgrc=9izaxWcAsg745M%3A


960 replaced 760
970 replaced 770
980 replaced 780
980ti replaced 780ti

Order of perforamnce stock clocks.

First place. 980ti

Second place 980.
Third place 780ti
Forth place. 970
Fifth place 780


According to links i sent this is the heirarchy for nvidea cards at stock clocks
..
 

Mhmd1993

Estimable
Jul 29, 2015
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4,510
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Corndog1836... I posted 2 links in my first reply (comment #5). The first one is an example where the 970 beats the 780 Ti. In the second link you can find tons of kepler users complaining about this and they shared a lot of benchmarks that you're asking for like this http://www.pcgameshardware.de/The-Witcher-3-Spiel-38488/Specials/Grafikkarten-Benchmarks-1159196/
in the last link you can see the 970 beating the 780 Ti and even the 960 beating the 780 jetstream which is INSANE !
Also I watched a lot of benchmarks on YouTube about the 970 and in one of the witcher 3 tests, the 970 was better than GTX titan ! I'm not an expert in video cards but I can't imagine that the 970 is better than the titan in any way, shape or form.
Please notice that these problems happen mainly in games released very recently like the witcher 3
 

Mhmd1993

Estimable
Jul 29, 2015
9
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4,510
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And here I quote some of the complaints from kepler users on that forum :
"Witcher 3 performance is close to matching 970 with old drivers. It's only when you install 352.86 (Which is a Kepler certified driver) you drop 15-20 fps. Hence outrage. Nvidia needs to respond to this. There is still a hell of a lot of 7 series and below users just waiting for 980ti or Pascal. You can bet they wont be touching any Nvidia products if this is now the norm. 2 year support and then left out in the cold."
"I just reverted to 347.52 from 352.86 on an EVGA 780SC and I've gone from spluttering around between 40-55 fps to an almost constant 60fps with just a few dips."
"I had to update to 352.86 for my SLi 780 Ti's because only that driver has an SLi profile for Witcher 3. I can run it maxed at 60fps at 1080p but GPU usage on both cards doesn't go past 60% So now it takes 2x 780 ti's to effectively do what a single 970 can do at 1080p just because of some drivers and nvidia wanting to push Maxwell down our throats?! I am officially up in arms now and heading over to the red side if this doesn't change."
There has to be something wrong. Either nvidia wants the kepler users to upgrade, or maybe we're missing something. But what is it ?
 

Mhmd1993

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Jul 29, 2015
9
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I really wanted to buy a 970 when I build my rig next January but this made me consider the r9 390. However the main thing that's against the 390 is that it's not a different architecture from the 290 so I see it as an overclocked 290 with 8 vram. Well I think the main thing that will make me choose between them is their performance on the upcoming games like fallout 4 and dishonored 2. I will also compare between the 290 and the 770 performance in these games to see which side has a better driver support.
 

corndog1836

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I don't think you will need the best GPU for fallout 4. I saw the computex vid and the general consensus was they put WAY MORE effort in content , theme, storyline and gameplay then graphics. don't get me wrong its a beautiful game but wont be demanding like cyrsis3 or metro last light... I think I will be ok with the 780ti EVGA classifieds in sli oc/d 1254mhz .
 
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