What Amp should i get for my Canton Chrono 5.1 system???

valletitov

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Hey guys! really need some help with matching the right amplifier for my setup, I have no idea what to get. Heres the 5.1 system i want to buy for my new home thatre:

two front: Canton Chrono 509 DC speakers
two rear: Canton Chrono 501.2 speakers
one center: Canton Chrono 505 Center
and also: a 400 watt subwoofer, (havent desided whih one yet)

I just want an amp that wont blow my speakers up, price range between 100-450 bucks.
Any help would be apreciated, hope i gave you enough information :)

 

VincentP

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The VSX-824-K looks pretty good. I think you'll be happy with this.

Clipping is where the power supply of an amplifier is pushed past its limits and the peaks of the sound waveform are cut off or clipped. This can cause the amplifier to output more than its rated power and potentially damage your speakers. Amplifiers should have protection for this.

To avoid it though, just don't push the amplifier past its limits. On my receiver the volume is measured in -dB and I haven't had it past -12dB. 0dB should be the maximum output but they have likely put in a safety margin.

The rated output of the Pioneer receiver is 80W per channel, but they have measured this at 0.08% THD (distortion).
You would have to drive it a long way past this to get significant clipping, and you should hear audible distortion before you get to the point of doing damage.
 

VincentP

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Your front speakers are rated at nominal 160W. Most amplifiers will put out less than 100W RMS.
Don't believe any PMPO value. In fact, just advertising PMPO is usually a sign of a rubbish amp.
Something like a Yamaha RX-V377 would be fine. Older models are ok too if you can get them for a good price.
As you move to higher models like the RX-V477 you get higher output power, Airplay and screw terminals for surround speaker connections rather than spring terminals.
 

valletitov

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actually i did have a Yamaha amp and spearkers once, they died before the warranty expired. Therefore, I kinda dont trust yamaha anymore. Maybe a onkyo amplifier (they go for a good price in my area) like Onkyo TX-NR636 or Onkyo TX-NR609???? dont know if theyre a good match, just saw a youtube video where a guy had similar canton setup with these
 

rexter

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When selecting good power amp, check the THD lower is better. However, certain features are more appealing than just THD. like connections - when you want to connect several things on it. Other features like auto or manual calibration, zone designation, connection and functions. ect.

Holy smoke! you're nominal power is 160W you'll need a really good amp for that like the ADA-1500 Amplifier or at least Denon AVR-X4000 - http://canadahifi.com/axiom-audio-ada-1500-multichannel-amplifier-review/


However for your budget, try the Denon AVR-S500BT with its 70W @ 8 Ohms
http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-S500BT-Receiver-Capability-Bluetooth/dp/B00JR6GJLW/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1422379351&sr=8-10&keywords=Yamaha+RX-V377
or

Harman Kardon AVR 1700
http://www.amazon.com/Harman-Kardon-AVR-1700-Network-Connected/dp/B009HB2USI/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1422382215&sr=1-2&keywords=harman+kardon+receiver

Marrantz, NAD, Harman Kardon and Sherwwod good brand amps, it don't have much features but good sounds.
 

VincentP

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I have a Yamaha RX-V373 amplifier with 5.1 surround Wharfedale speakers. The front pair are floor standing full range speakers (down to 40 Hz) with a recommended amplifier power from 25W to 200W.
The amp is rated at up to 135W per channel, but this is misleading. The rating with 2 channels driven at 0.09% THD is 70W with 6 ohm speakers. It will be lower with my 8 ohm speakers.
If you were sizing the amp based on the speakers power rating, I could have a much more powerful amplifier. With the current amp though, I have never turned it up close to it's limit. You are not buying a sound system for an arena or night club. You don't need that sort of volume, clarity is more important.
Knowing what I know now, I would have bought a model a bit further up the range. I don't like the spring style speaker connections for surround and centre speakers and a higher power rating might be useful if I move out of a unit.

There are other good brands out there, but I'm most familiar with Yamaha receivers. I have at least two friends that have them as well. They are by far the most common receiver used in quality home theatre setups. They are probably not used so much at the real high end or real low end. They are very easy to use and they have good sound. Yamaha have been making amplifiers, speakers and musical instruments for a long time. They have the sort of quality you would expect from a Japanese brand. If you had an amplifier fail under warranty, it should have been replaced.

I'm not necessarily saying to go with Yamaha, but don't rule them out. See if you can find other people's experience with any brand you are considering. Read the specification carefully and listen to it if you can.
 

valletitov

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I have no idea whats manual calibration, zone designation etc. Even after googling it I am confused, so please guys keep it simple. I Think I forgot to mention that i am a complete noob at this.

Could you tell me all the specs i need to look at to know that it will work with my speaker and bass??? because for example the Harman Kardon AVR 1700 that rexter suggested, has 100 watts per channel. Doesnt it need to be 160 to work???? I dont get this

P.S. sorry for my bad english

 

VincentP

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It is difficult because every manufacturer publishes specifications differently.
You do not need a 160W per channel amp. Your speakers can handle it but the volume would be excessive.
Look for the specification that looks something like this:
Rated Output Power (20Hz-20kHz, 2ch driven) 80 W (8ohms, 0.09% THD)
This is the true output power without distortion.
80W is probably ok. 100W would be great.

Don't worry too much about your sub-woofer. It should be an amplified sub with a line level input, so the AV receiver just decodes the signal and sends it out at line level for the sub to amplify.
 

valletitov

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so you cant ruin the speakers by underpowering them??? why do so many sites and magazines say that it will? and some even tell that you should get 50% extra power.

 

valletitov

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and as I understand, most of the subwoofers have their own amplifiers? like XTZ 99 W12.16??

also would this amp be suitable then: Pioneer VSX-520?
300 euro, is that a good price for its quality???
 

VincentP

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Anyone who tells you that a speaker can be damaged by under-powering it clearly knows nothing about speakers or electronics. Worst case is that you don't get the sound quality or volume you were hoping for.

Yes, an active sub-woofer has its own amplifier. This is what you would typically use for a decent home theatre setup. Passive sub-woofers would only be used in the cheapest home theatre setups or in some car sound systems.

You've used the word amplifier through your post but I believe you are looking at an AV receiver. This can decode digital audio formats and amplify for speaker level outputs but it will also pass through video to your TV. I'll use the word receiver below, but you can think of this as an amplifier if you like.

Pioneer make some equipment that is ok, and some that is cheap rubbish.
Is this the receiver you are looking at?
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Pioneer+Receivers/VSX-520-K

300 euro is too much to pay for this receiver. Recommended retail price is only USD $229.
Output is 80W per channel, which is ok.
This receiver has no speaker calibration. Better receivers allow you to place a microphone in the normal sitting position and the amplifier will automatically adjust volume levels of the speakers to compensate for differences in distance and output.
The surround speaker connections are the spring clips I was complaining about earlier too, not a deal breaker but not a good sign.

If looking at Pioneer, there is a newer model VSX-524-K for RRP USD $249.
This has speaker calibration, with the same power output as the VSX-520-K.
It also has 4 HDMI 2.0 inputs rather than 3 HDMI 1.4a inputs on the VSK-520-K.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Pioneer+Receivers/VSX-524-K

The VSX-824-K is RRP USD $399. This adds screw terminals for surround speakers and a bunch of connectivity features that may or may not be useful.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Pioneer+Receivers/VSX-824-K

The brands mentioned by rexter are all good; Marrantz, NAD, Harman Kardon and Sherwood. I also suggested Yamaha. Generally the base models are a bit limited, especially from Yamaha or Sherwood, so often next model up is better.
 

ien2222

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When they say "underpowering can damage" what they are saying is having an amp pushed past its limits because the user wants it louder than the amp can do. (The amp is underpowered for the task at hand)

When an amp is pushed to the point that it clips, it can damage the tweeters. So a 30w amp pushed past its clipping point and outputting say 50w will fry a tweeter, but a 100w amp outputting 80w won't.

As long as you don't push the amp past it's rated spec and the speaker can handle the output it's fine. That means you can have a 5000w amp with 100w rated speakers, or a 20w amp with 500w rate speakers, as long as you aren't pushing it past the lowest rated item you're good to go...assuming impedance isn't an issue.
 

valletitov

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ien2222, what do you mean by not pushing it past its clipping point, how do you make sure or control that you dont?

and vincentP, I think I confused this reciever: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Pioneer+Receivers/VSX-520-K with another more expensive one. However a new VSX-824-K goes for 280 euros on ebay.

and quick out of the topic question here: what subwoofer would you get if you had 300-450 dollars?

Sorry by the way for always answering so late, I think we live in different time zones (im in germany)

 

VincentP

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The VSX-824-K looks pretty good. I think you'll be happy with this.

Clipping is where the power supply of an amplifier is pushed past its limits and the peaks of the sound waveform are cut off or clipped. This can cause the amplifier to output more than its rated power and potentially damage your speakers. Amplifiers should have protection for this.

To avoid it though, just don't push the amplifier past its limits. On my receiver the volume is measured in -dB and I haven't had it past -12dB. 0dB should be the maximum output but they have likely put in a safety margin.

The rated output of the Pioneer receiver is 80W per channel, but they have measured this at 0.08% THD (distortion).
You would have to drive it a long way past this to get significant clipping, and you should hear audible distortion before you get to the point of doing damage.
 

valletitov

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I have 2 days till the ebay artcicle expires, by then i will have decided if I want to buy the VSX-824-K or buy something else.

I apprecieate all the help you guys have given me, especially VincentP, you have helped me the most and made my search for a amp/reciever much easier. I thank you a lot for that. Cant wait to get my home theatre ready and start watching movies with awesome quality :)
 

VincentP

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I had a Sony stereo for years and I was always pretty happy with it because the sound was natural and balanced. It lacked in the low bass though. This was one of the really old ones before they started making mini hi-fi systems with sub-woofers and no mid range.

I eventually went out and bought the home theatre setup I described earlier.
I tried some music and it sounded great. The low bass from the front speakers perfectly balanced with the rest of the range. No exaggerated highs and lows like a cheap system with small fronts and a sub-woofer trying to fill in the bass. Every note clear.
Then I played a movie (Pulp Fiction). This is where I was amazed. The dialog was so clear from the centre speaker and the background sounds were so natural. The background conversations in the restaurant, crickets in the garden, the sound of a set of keys being thrown and caught. I'd never realized what I was missing.

Enjoy.
 

ien2222

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You'll start hearing distortion when you start driving an amp past it's rated power. If it starts to sound bad, just turn it down alittle.

But unless you plan on very loud playback, with that receiver and speakers you shouldn't get to that point. Those speakers say they are 88dB for efficiency. That means at 1 watt it'll be 88dB loud at one meter away. Every +3dB and every meter further away requires a doubling of power. It ramps up quickly but even at 3 meters it's still only 4 watts (2 extra meters) to play at 88dB. At 64 watts it's 100dB at 3 meters.

It's not quite as simple as that for what you need for power, you'll want headroom for peaks, but it gives a decent idea of where you're at.
 

VincentP

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The drop in loudness with distance is not linear. Doubling the distance will result in a drop of 6dB.
This means to double the listening distance requires 4x the amplifier power.
There are other factors in loudness too of course related to the room where the speakers are placed and listening angle from the front of the speaker.
Here is a calculator:
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

From this calculator:
At 3m or 10ft, 90dB listening level (loud in a domestic setting) requires 4W per channel or 100dB requires 38W.
At 6m or 20ft, 90dB listening level (loud in a domestic setting) requires 16W per channel or 100dB requires 152W.

The 4W, 16W and 32W points above should be handled well by the chosen amplifier, with plenty of headroom.
The 152W point will not, nor will it be handled by the majority of amplifiers for home use and the speakers may not handle the peaks well at this power level.
 

ien2222

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What I posted wasn't linear.

And yes, in an infinite room it's -6dB for every doubling of distance, but for a real room, in practice -3dB for every meter is a good approximation because of reflections.
 

VincentP

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You wrote "every meter further away requires a doubling of power". This suggests a linear relationship between distance and sound level.
You can't approximate based on an extra meter, because the difference in sound level from 2m to 3m is substantially more than the difference from 4m to 5m.
 
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