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[citation][nom]f-14[/nom]this guy is wanted for alot more then that, but it doesn't matter because now the russians are after him for what he has only threatened to do. guess he should be recieving body parts of his realtives pretty soon as well as being paid a visit int he middle of the night by putin's best and i will not be surprised if the wiki servers are all destroyed or dissapear soon, bunker or no bunker. you don't f' with the russians. not to mention he's got the iranians and north koreans and chinese after him too. i will be sorely disgusted if he gets turned over to the americans before the russians get him.[/citation]
Ecuador is offering him assylum.... If he makes it that far, his corpse will turn up eventually.... Between Russians, Iranians and Chinese....he might as well pick out his head stone and burial plot. I'll be surprised if US Special Forces aren't sent to Ecuador to "greet him"....
Ecuador is offering him assylum.... If he makes it that far, his corpse will turn up eventually.... Between Russians, Iranians and Chinese....he might as well pick out his head stone and burial plot. I'll be surprised if US Special Forces aren't sent to Ecuador to "greet him"....
Yoder54
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[citation][nom]firebee1991[/nom]This is guy is the best thing to happen to democracy in a long time. Here's to hoping that he stays safe and keeps up the good work for a long time.[/citation]
How are his acts supporting democracy? If anything he has committed an act of treason against the US Government. The Army dude who gave him info about Iraq and Afghanistan in August also committed treason, and since he was serving then his act is punishable by a firing squad.
Neither one of them has done anything to help the democratic process, and if anything they are putting American troops in danger. Maybe not, but any hint of such is despicable. If this was true journalism, then he would not be attacked the way he is by the American media. It is not like the Watergate days where criminal acts were being exposed, but is just an attack on American policy.
Fortunately Iran sees it as a sham. It could have been different with their madman president. What if he had been offended by what Israel had said and decided to lob some missiles at his neighbors? What about North Korea? The world is full of kooks, and to give them an excuse to create war is not cool. Wikileaks is a great example of what irresponsible behavior is.
For those of you who are sick of what "governments are doing to you" then you are truly misguided. Just take a look at the American health care industry, and then you will see your true enemy. American government is ineffective, but not repressive. You want the text in your hands? Hah. If you had any clue what really goes on behind the scenes you would have no way of even beginning to comprehend it. The military has had very few, if any, of it's secrets revealed. Classifying government information is not censorship. Do you really think that we should post all of our weapons schematics on the Web, so that every anti-American crackpot can use them against us? It is not all political, it just an evil world out there.
How are his acts supporting democracy? If anything he has committed an act of treason against the US Government. The Army dude who gave him info about Iraq and Afghanistan in August also committed treason, and since he was serving then his act is punishable by a firing squad.
Neither one of them has done anything to help the democratic process, and if anything they are putting American troops in danger. Maybe not, but any hint of such is despicable. If this was true journalism, then he would not be attacked the way he is by the American media. It is not like the Watergate days where criminal acts were being exposed, but is just an attack on American policy.
Fortunately Iran sees it as a sham. It could have been different with their madman president. What if he had been offended by what Israel had said and decided to lob some missiles at his neighbors? What about North Korea? The world is full of kooks, and to give them an excuse to create war is not cool. Wikileaks is a great example of what irresponsible behavior is.
For those of you who are sick of what "governments are doing to you" then you are truly misguided. Just take a look at the American health care industry, and then you will see your true enemy. American government is ineffective, but not repressive. You want the text in your hands? Hah. If you had any clue what really goes on behind the scenes you would have no way of even beginning to comprehend it. The military has had very few, if any, of it's secrets revealed. Classifying government information is not censorship. Do you really think that we should post all of our weapons schematics on the Web, so that every anti-American crackpot can use them against us? It is not all political, it just an evil world out there.
Democracy requires everyone to be informed and everyone to have a proportionate vote. Without either of these you are running a sham democracy, like that of Israels where the only people that have the vote are a minority of citizens while everyone else is treated like a perpetual refugee in the land of their birth.
Democracy is about more than just the agenda of the US govt, its about how we should live as a race of people in an equitable way so that everyone has the same opportunities, not so we can drive our oversized vehicles while the petrol we burn is paid for with the blood of others.
Democracy is about more than just the agenda of the US govt, its about how we should live as a race of people in an equitable way so that everyone has the same opportunities, not so we can drive our oversized vehicles while the petrol we burn is paid for with the blood of others.
Yoder54
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Being informed is one thing, but not everyone should be privy to the inner workings of matters of national security. I doubt if many American's now anything about the current START treaty, or even Wikileaks for that matter. We do have a proportionate vote here, though the tallies were questionable during GW's win over Gore. Unfortunately, most American's are too fucking stupid to know much of anything except for that that gives them instant gratification. Hell, look at how many admire/revere the likes of Palin, Beck, Limbaugh, etc.
aznguy0028
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[citation][nom]firebee1991[/nom]This is guy is the best thing to happen to democracy in a long time. Here's to hoping that he stays safe and keeps up the good work for a long time.[/citation]
How is it the best thing? Transparency is one issue, but it can also endanger many lives of soldiers we have everywhere. I don't know about you, but I rather have the men and women fighting for us to be alive rather than to be targeted even more for some potentially stupid intel. leak that does not affect us in any way in our normal daily lives. Transparency is a good thing, but I'd rather wait till the country's population is not dumb enough to make informed decisions. Once people stop listening to Glenn Beck and Rush and Faux news lies in general, and stop calling our own president a muslim, I'll reconsider...
How is it the best thing? Transparency is one issue, but it can also endanger many lives of soldiers we have everywhere. I don't know about you, but I rather have the men and women fighting for us to be alive rather than to be targeted even more for some potentially stupid intel. leak that does not affect us in any way in our normal daily lives. Transparency is a good thing, but I'd rather wait till the country's population is not dumb enough to make informed decisions. Once people stop listening to Glenn Beck and Rush and Faux news lies in general, and stop calling our own president a muslim, I'll reconsider...
[citation][nom]Yoder54[/nom]How are his acts supporting democracy? If anything he has committed an act of treason against the US Government.[/citation]
He isn't an American citizen. It is impossible for him to commit treason against the US government.
He isn't an American citizen. It is impossible for him to commit treason against the US government.
dogman_1234
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[citation][nom]Aionism[/nom]He isn't an American citizen. It is impossible for him to commit treason against the US government.[/citation]
But our own troop did.
If you don't want shyt like this to happen, quit voting for the a-holes who help this aussie get the info and post it online for our enemies to see. If it is to blame...our gov't for 'protecting us' from the external threats out there.
But our own troop did.
If you don't want shyt like this to happen, quit voting for the a-holes who help this aussie get the info and post it online for our enemies to see. If it is to blame...our gov't for 'protecting us' from the external threats out there.
dogman_1234
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The other point people are missing: A man is innocent until proven guilty, yet this man is now forced to be 'on the run' over charges that the prosecuting officers agreed *years ago* that there was no chance of conviction. No new evidence is there. This is govt at it's worst.
It is one thing to release documents such as the Helicopter footage but to keep leaking anything this guy gets his hands on is ludicrus at best. Assange has a bad past with the Aussie and American govt. This is his way of payback. He isn't doing this for "the people". He is doing this for his own laughter.
What most of you don't understand is, when you are in position of power, there are decisions and things that you cannot convey to the public. Some things are meant to never be told or be known.
Example: You are the leader in charge of the US. You know there is a virus making people zombie like etc (kind of like the movie "I am Legend" or "28 days Later"...I think?). So far the virus has been contained and found only in New York City. There is no cure. No time to investigate as this virus is spreading fast. Do you - A) Nuke New York and 100 miles radius outside of New York to prevent further spread? Do you - B) send in all the Medical People you can into New York to investigate and find out what is going on knowing you are risking all these people and even further spread of said virus? Do you - C) send in the army, marines, what ever you can to control people and the infected killing anything that has been infected? Do you - .......etc.
As the example above portrays, our leaders, no matter how we love or hate them, make crucial decsions such as these on a daily basis. And some don't deserve to be leaders, but that is another discusion. Some decsions may make you scratch your head but there are reasons behind them. So what would you have done with my scenario? As Sci-Fi as this scenario sounds, it is very plausable and real. Me, I would have nuked New York and 100 miles radius around New York without notifying anyone in that vacinity. Why? To preserve the human race. Sacrafice a few million people to save a billion. Its a hard decsion not matter which scenario you choose. But that is just the fact. And then what if someone 5yrs later after you have Nuked New York leaked this info that it was your decsion to kill off 1million people? What would the public say? What of the people who survived that demand you be killed as the leader you made that decsion because now these people lost familes friends in the nuked area? Which gets back to my point, somethings aren't meant for us to know. There are those that if knew will comprehend judge the situation and decision accordingly. But then there are those that know and will cry foul and or the sky is falling - and that is your average citizen.
If you don't believe me, one of these days this Assange guy will leak out something that will indirectly affect you and or perhaps kill those you love close to you. And ofcourse, by then it will be too late for you to demand his head. Example: Wikileaks leaks out detailed information with budgets and blue prints about a radar system built for your government which cost 70% of your country's yearly budget. You are outraged and glad that this information was leaked because now you know. Terrorists get a hold of the documentation and finds out how to bypass and sneak by the radar system. Terrorists send in nuclear tipped warheads and takes out your mom's, dad's, brother's, sisters's etc city. Now how do you feel?
Assange is a stupid man who now has a target from almost every major country and super power in the world. I don't want the guy to die so he should just shut down Wikileaks and go into submission/hiding. Otherwise he deserves whats comming to him.
Sorry for the long post.
What most of you don't understand is, when you are in position of power, there are decisions and things that you cannot convey to the public. Some things are meant to never be told or be known.
Example: You are the leader in charge of the US. You know there is a virus making people zombie like etc (kind of like the movie "I am Legend" or "28 days Later"...I think?). So far the virus has been contained and found only in New York City. There is no cure. No time to investigate as this virus is spreading fast. Do you - A) Nuke New York and 100 miles radius outside of New York to prevent further spread? Do you - B) send in all the Medical People you can into New York to investigate and find out what is going on knowing you are risking all these people and even further spread of said virus? Do you - C) send in the army, marines, what ever you can to control people and the infected killing anything that has been infected? Do you - .......etc.
As the example above portrays, our leaders, no matter how we love or hate them, make crucial decsions such as these on a daily basis. And some don't deserve to be leaders, but that is another discusion. Some decsions may make you scratch your head but there are reasons behind them. So what would you have done with my scenario? As Sci-Fi as this scenario sounds, it is very plausable and real. Me, I would have nuked New York and 100 miles radius around New York without notifying anyone in that vacinity. Why? To preserve the human race. Sacrafice a few million people to save a billion. Its a hard decsion not matter which scenario you choose. But that is just the fact. And then what if someone 5yrs later after you have Nuked New York leaked this info that it was your decsion to kill off 1million people? What would the public say? What of the people who survived that demand you be killed as the leader you made that decsion because now these people lost familes friends in the nuked area? Which gets back to my point, somethings aren't meant for us to know. There are those that if knew will comprehend judge the situation and decision accordingly. But then there are those that know and will cry foul and or the sky is falling - and that is your average citizen.
If you don't believe me, one of these days this Assange guy will leak out something that will indirectly affect you and or perhaps kill those you love close to you. And ofcourse, by then it will be too late for you to demand his head. Example: Wikileaks leaks out detailed information with budgets and blue prints about a radar system built for your government which cost 70% of your country's yearly budget. You are outraged and glad that this information was leaked because now you know. Terrorists get a hold of the documentation and finds out how to bypass and sneak by the radar system. Terrorists send in nuclear tipped warheads and takes out your mom's, dad's, brother's, sisters's etc city. Now how do you feel?
Assange is a stupid man who now has a target from almost every major country and super power in the world. I don't want the guy to die so he should just shut down Wikileaks and go into submission/hiding. Otherwise he deserves whats comming to him.
Sorry for the long post.
Sounds like they're pretty desperate to nail this guy and haven't got anything to do it with. If I were the us govt I'd be looking into where he got the info.
While leaking classified documents isn't the greatest idea. What if he's uncovered something we should all know about? If this is something they're willing to dredge up old cases against this bloke to hide. Then you have to wonder what they're hiding and whether it's a skeleton in the closet or not.
Either way these initial leaks have had little to no impact but they've sent a powerful message and someone up top doesn't like it.
While leaking classified documents isn't the greatest idea. What if he's uncovered something we should all know about? If this is something they're willing to dredge up old cases against this bloke to hide. Then you have to wonder what they're hiding and whether it's a skeleton in the closet or not.
Either way these initial leaks have had little to no impact but they've sent a powerful message and someone up top doesn't like it.
[citation][nom]aznguy0028[/nom]How is it the best thing? Transparency is one issue, but it can also endanger many lives of soldiers we have everywhere. I don't know about you, but I rather have the men and women fighting for us to be alive rather than to be targeted even more for some potentially stupid intel. leak that does not affect us in any way in our normal daily lives. Transparency is a good thing, but I'd rather wait till the country's population is not dumb enough to make informed decisions. Once people stop listening to Glenn Beck and Rush and Faux news lies in general, and stop calling our own president a muslim, I'll reconsider...[/citation]
Here is the thing: you assume that our government intentions are good and that our soldiers fight for the United States, not our government ambitions. For example, during WW2, did Germans fight for Germany, or for Hitler's evil ambitions? But Hitler successfully explored the term "patriotism," equaling being against the war as being an an unpatriotic and an act of treason.
The problem is, if our government wants to start a war, it starts a war. US military power makes it especially easy against weak countries. I personally don't like self-excusing wars.
Here is the thing: you assume that our government intentions are good and that our soldiers fight for the United States, not our government ambitions. For example, during WW2, did Germans fight for Germany, or for Hitler's evil ambitions? But Hitler successfully explored the term "patriotism," equaling being against the war as being an an unpatriotic and an act of treason.
The problem is, if our government wants to start a war, it starts a war. US military power makes it especially easy against weak countries. I personally don't like self-excusing wars.
aznguy0028
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[citation][nom]yyk71200[/nom]Here is the thing: you assume that our government intentions are good and that our soldiers fight for the United States, not our government ambitions. For example, during WW2, did Germans fight for Germany, or for Hitler's evil ambitions? But Hitler successfully explored the term "patriotism," equaling being against the war as being an an unpatriotic and an act of treason.The problem is, if our government wants to start a war, it starts a war. US military power makes it especially easy against weak countries. I personally don't like self-excusing wars.[/citation]
I agree completely with you. What I'm saying is, the average citizen will not make the best of decisions regarding national security. What difference does it make in our lives that secrets are leaked? I clearly know that EVERY governments' intentions are not good, I never assumed our own was different otherwise. But when you have people such as the Tea Party, and those millions who listen to Beck, Rush, Palin, you have to question the intelligence of the average person, and it's not very high. I don't think using Hitler was a good example because Germany was a dictatorship at the time, while the US have systems of checks and balances, and is a democratic state. I do understand your logic, but I don't feel having classified secrets out on the public domain is a wise thing to do. They are secret for a reason. One example with the last batch of leaks, tribal leaders in the middle east who were on assisting us were targeted and assassinated because of the wikileaks. Terrorists targeted them and had them killed and publicly released a statement thanking wikileaks, with that, we possibly have less people that would help cooperate with us in the future. But hey, everyone knows about that now, does it make any difference in your daily life or mines? Until I see a difference in our government's action being moved by the people, I reserve the judgment that nothing will be changed in the light of national security issues with the common folk knowing what's going on. Until the gov. change, I rather not have our secrets exposed to the world.
I agree completely with you. What I'm saying is, the average citizen will not make the best of decisions regarding national security. What difference does it make in our lives that secrets are leaked? I clearly know that EVERY governments' intentions are not good, I never assumed our own was different otherwise. But when you have people such as the Tea Party, and those millions who listen to Beck, Rush, Palin, you have to question the intelligence of the average person, and it's not very high. I don't think using Hitler was a good example because Germany was a dictatorship at the time, while the US have systems of checks and balances, and is a democratic state. I do understand your logic, but I don't feel having classified secrets out on the public domain is a wise thing to do. They are secret for a reason. One example with the last batch of leaks, tribal leaders in the middle east who were on assisting us were targeted and assassinated because of the wikileaks. Terrorists targeted them and had them killed and publicly released a statement thanking wikileaks, with that, we possibly have less people that would help cooperate with us in the future. But hey, everyone knows about that now, does it make any difference in your daily life or mines? Until I see a difference in our government's action being moved by the people, I reserve the judgment that nothing will be changed in the light of national security issues with the common folk knowing what's going on. Until the gov. change, I rather not have our secrets exposed to the world.
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