I can't believe...

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"Guitarboy" <Guitarboy@stringalong.com> wrote in message...

> Several days north? where were the trucks?? in canada??? where were the
> planes and the choppers? on the moon??

Iraq.

 

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"David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in
message news:YKjTe.17893$Sx4.17823@trnddc06
> "Guitarboy" <Guitarboy@stringalong.com> wrote in
> message...
>
>> Several days north? where were the trucks?? in canada???
>> where were the planes and the choppers? on the moon??
>
> Iraq.

I think about half of our militrary resources are still
in-country. There's still a ton of gear at the bases around
here.

The possibility of at least one other problem at home or
abroad has always been part of the plan.

 

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"Guitarboy" <Guitarboy@stringalong.com> wrote in message...
>
> In article <kf1Te.13148$B34.7161@trnddc09>, MAMS\
> <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote:

> > They really never got them out. The bridges were closed before the
> > evac was complete, no? Then, they were only a mile or so from food
> > and water and no "aftermath" on the environment. Basically, you are
> > trying to compare the disaster of a two-block radius, to the destruction
> > of an entire coast line and the loss of an entire major city. There is no
> > comparison. New York (albeit horrible) on 9/11 can't hold a candle to
> > the impact on society that is occuring here.

> there was an environmental aftermath. many people couldn't come back to
> their apartments as they were covered in all sorts of toxic dust. The
> EPA was not honest about it's assesment of the air quality (what else
> is new in this administration). Of course there was a city with food
> water power and phones only a mile or so away but there was a feeling
> that another attack was imminent. Different yet just as scary.


Agreed - but very different to complete loss of services, food, water,
facilites, and increasing water levels, etc.. New York was a barn dance
in comparison to the lingering results of Katrina.

 

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"David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in
message news:cPjTe.17894$Sx4.10869@trnddc06

>New York was a barn dance in comparison to the
> lingering results of Katrina.

Agreed. The WTC was the largest single loss of life in
country due to military action, in the history of the US.

 

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"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
news:G_KdnZ2dnZ2IzseCnZ2dnZhbgN6dnZ2dRVn-y52dnZ0@comcast.com...
> "Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.no.dowdy@hp.nospam.com> wrote in
> message news:VvjTe.11838$YB4.6292@news.cpqcorp.net
>> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
>> news:qZadnZ2dnZ0JX1WdnZ2dnWmzgd6dnZ2dRVn-zJ2dnZ0@comcast.com...
>>
>>> Yes, we had an incompetent mayor that knew that 100,000
>>> people lacked the personal resources to evacuate the
>>> city. He had enough buses to move at least half of
>>> them, and instead of acting, let the busses rot in that
>>> pool of water.
>
>> Any idea how that evacuation would take place?
>
> A good answer would require that I know what the mayor could have known
> had he asked the right questions of the right people, many of whom
> reported to him.
>
> Any answer I could give would be speculative.

Speculate away, then. Where would he take them, assuming that a deployment
plan that actually could pick up the people who actually got on the buses
worked well enough to get people out of town? A tent city in Baton Rouge or
Hattiesburg? Who would take them then, before the damage of the storm was
known?

Glenn D.

 

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"Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.no.dowdy@hp.nospam.com> wrote in
message news:W3kTe.11847$bS4.5230@news.cpqcorp.net
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
> news:G_KdnZ2dnZ2IzseCnZ2dnZhbgN6dnZ2dRVn-y52dnZ0@comcast.com...
>> "Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.no.dowdy@hp.nospam.com> wrote in
>> message news:VvjTe.11838$YB4.6292@news.cpqcorp.net
>>> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message
>>> news:qZadnZ2dnZ0JX1WdnZ2dnWmzgd6dnZ2dRVn-zJ2dnZ0@comcast.com...
>>>
>>>> Yes, we had an incompetent mayor that knew that 100,000
>>>> people lacked the personal resources to evacuate the
>>>> city. He had enough buses to move at least half of
>>>> them, and instead of acting, let the busses rot in that
>>>> pool of water.
>>
>>> Any idea how that evacuation would take place?
>>
>> A good answer would require that I know what the mayor
>> could have known had he asked the right questions of the
>> right people, many of whom reported to him.
>>
>> Any answer I could give would be speculative.
>
> Speculate away, then.

You can find and read disaster plans for other cities, say
Los Angeles as well as I can, right?

>Where would he take them, assuming
> that a deployment plan that actually could pick up the
> people who actually got on the buses worked well enough
> to get people out of town?

Those are things that one plans in advance. It looks like
Houston and Dallas would have been or were good candidates.

>A tent city in Baton Rouge or Hattiesburg?

I don't know the roads and the geography. It seems like some
place further away would be a good idea.

>Who would take them then, before the damage of the storm
>was known?

Evacutaion plans are usually based on the worst case or
include worst case contingency plans.

The largest disaster plan I ever had anything substantial to
do with was for a large corporate data center. It seems like
our plan was more inclusive than the one for New Orleans.
;-(

 

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"David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in message
news:0EjTe.17890$Sx4.4124@trnddc06...
>
> "Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.no.dowdy@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:GfjTe.11836$IB4.3642@news.cpqcorp.net...
>
>> President Bush declared a state of emergency in La on Saturday, 8/27
>> http/www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html
>>
>> "Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at
>> its
>> discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of
>> the emergency. Debris removal and emergency protective measures,
>> including
>> direct Federal assistance, will be provided at 75 percent Federal
>> funding."
>
>
> So we ask again... WHY was nothing done, and at whos "discretion" ?
>
This site is hardly neutral, nor are all of the links good proof, but more
questions are being raised:

http/selltheranch.com/news.html

> * FEMA Won't Accept Amtrak's Help In Evacuations
> * FEMA Turns Away Experienced Firefighters
> * FEMA Turns Back Wal-Mart Supply Trucks
> * FEMA Prevents Coast Guard From Delivering Diesel Fuel
> * FEMA Won't Let Red Cross Deliver Food
> * FEMA Bars Morticians From Entering New Orleans
> * FEMA Blocks 500-Boat Citizen Flotilla From Delivering Aid
> * FEMA Fails To Utilize Navy Ship With 600-Bed Hospital On Board
> * FEMA to Chicago: Send Just One Truck
> * FEMA Turns Away Generators
> * FEMA: "First Responders Urged Not To Respond"
>
Glenn D.

 

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On 9/6/05 5:17 AM, in article 5inqh15hga501j9d62jmo24e8phmc1ofi5@4ax.com,
"Kurt Riemann" <Kurt Riemann> wrote:

> On Mon, 05 Sep 2005 19:10:46 GMT, SSJVCmag <ten@nozirev.gamnocssj.com>
> wrote:
>
>>> He was supposed to have appointed all the right people for all of
>>> the right tasks, and divided the right responsibilities among the right
>>> people. If the country doesn't now see that his'right' is so very, very,
>>> wrong, we have a bigger problem than just leadership.
>>
>>
>> You missed the last election, didn't you?
>>
>
> The one where more people voted against Bush than voted for Reagan?

Yes BUT... The numbers were STILL hardly reassuring as to the awareness,
education and thinking-calibre of the bulk of the American People... It
wasn't 70/30 against or anything like that...
Dang it.

>
>

 

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"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message..

> If you study disaster planning for US cities


Arny... just STOP it... STOP defending this nightmare !!

 

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"David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in
message news:AdkTe.17916$Sx4.610@trnddc06
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message..
>
>> If you study disaster planning for US cities

> Arny... just STOP it... STOP defending this nightmare !!

Defending what?

The fault here is clear and I've named the guilty parties.
It's like Murder On The Orient Express.

Admittly, people who want to blame just the federal
government aren't going to be happy with my assessment, but
nobody seems to want to explain why the local officials
should get a free pass.

BTW I think this whole discussion from the OP onward is way
out of line. It's just the one-sidedness of the OP that got
me going.

 

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"David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in message
news:hKjTe.17892$Sx4.14845@trnddc06...
>
> "Glenn Dowdy" <glenn.no.dowdy@hp.nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:IAjTe.11839$nT4.5361@news.cpqcorp.net...
>>
>> "David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in message
>> news:e27Te.2949$AB4.2881@trnddc03...
>> >
>> > "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message...
>> >
>> >> To protect their equipment from damage by the
>> >> storm, they moved it north, ahead of the storm. As soon as
>> >> the storm dissipated they turned around and headed back
>> >> South, but by then they were several days north of New
>> >> Orleans. They had been running from the storm for serveral
>> >> days after the storm passed through New Orleans. Add up the
>> >> dayss and you see why it took them 3-4 days to get back to
>> >> New Orleans after the storm passed through it.
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm sorry again, Arny... I won't buy that excuse either. I am in
>> > Dallas and New Orleans is an overnight drive.
>> >
>> Do you reckon the roads might be a bit less passable after a hurricane
>> comes
>> through?
>
>
> Sure... roads might even be *missing*!! When did a road stop the
> military?

Fully loaded military convoys certainly have a cross-country capability, but
it isn't fast.
>
> Have you been missing the interviews with guys that drove all the way
> from Los Angeles on Monday & Tuesday with boats in tow?

Without TV, I sure have.

> Sure, they
> had to circumvent some debris, but they drove right in and went to work
> with civilian vehicles. So did dozens of others from anround the country.
>
Coming from the west would certainly be easier than coming south through the
devastation. Other than that, I have no idea why it took so long for the NG
to get in. However, without civilian orders to do so, they aren't allowed to
move. You don't want the military to start taking action when they think it
should, do you?

Glenn D.

 

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"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message...

> Have I ever driven a military truck with a trailer in tow?
> Yes. Give me a SUV and a boat!

> How much road clearing had already taken place before they
> made their trips?


You are making a complete fool of yourself, Arny. Stop avoiding
the issues and trying to defend gross negligence on the part of
the federal government. GO MAKE SOME MUSIC or do things
that have value.

 

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"David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in
message news:BlkTe.17917$Sx4.12059@trnddc06
> "Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message...
>
>> Have I ever driven a military truck with a trailer in
>> tow? Yes. Give me a SUV and a boat!
>
>> How much road clearing had already taken place before
>> they made their trips?
>
>
> You are making a complete fool of yourself, Arny. Stop
> avoiding the issues and trying to defend gross negligence
> on the part of the federal government. GO MAKE SOME
> MUSIC or do things that have value.

You are making a complete fool of yourself, David. Stop
avoiding the issues and trying to defend gross negligence
on the part of the state and city government.

I think they are all dirty. You seem to want to criticize
only the Federal parts of the puzzle.

GO MAKE SOME MUSIC or do things that have value.

 

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STOP DEFENDING THIS STUPIDITY.

 

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"David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in
message news:vrkTe.17919$Sx4.10186@trnddc06

> STOP DEFENDING THIS STUPIDITY.

STOP DEFENDING STUPIDITY on the part of the state and city
government by focussing only on the Fderal parts of the
puzzle.

 

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Kurt Riemann <> wrote:

> You know what most normal people respond to when they do a shitty job?
> The threat of being fired. Show me anyone that Bush has appointed that
> got fired for doing a shitty job. He doesn't do it and therefore
> nobody has any incentive to do things well. Or to even be qualified,
> apparently.

He has no way to tell if the people he chooses for his team do well or
not. He has no history of competency.

--
ha

 

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David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

> "Arny Krueger" wrote...
> > "Roger W. Norman" wrote

> > > Can anyone imagine what toll it would take if New York
> > > had to be evacuated?

> > In fact 500,000 or more were evacuated from Manhattan on
> > 9/11. On a normal workday there are 2.2 million commuters in
> > New York.

> But they had a city to return to, didn't they?

You mean like a city with power and water and highways, right? That sort
of little stuff Arny's taking for granted.

Arny, this line is making you look a lot like a guy who'd give SR advice
and not know what is FOH. Think about it. "I'm a comfortable white guy
with plenty of camping gear so I don't see why those folks had
problems." Unh hunh...

-
ha

 

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"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message...

> If nobody trolls me on the topic of the tragedy, that's fine with me.


I'll ask you once again.. Ignore them. Cease poting in these threads
for a few days, pleeeeeze.

This will be my last one until friday, If there's anything left to say.

 

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"Arny Krueger" <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote in message news:jemdndoAjeIqR4DeRVn-iw@comcast.com...
> "David Morgan (MAMS)" <mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote in
> message news:vrkTe.17919$Sx4.10186@trnddc06
>
> > STOP DEFENDING THIS STUPIDITY.
>
> STOP DEFENDING STUPIDITY on the part of the state and city
> government by focussing only on the Fderal parts of the
> puzzle.


Please stop posting in the disaster threads for a few days. Let
them iron it out... See you on Friday.

 

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Arny Krueger <arnyk@hotpop.com> wrote:
> "Roger W. Norman" <Roger@SirMusicStudio.com> wrote in
> message news:JY2dnagkld34FIbeRVn-tA@rcn.net

>> But do so many people have to die due to a lack of effort?

> Good question to ask of a mayor who wouldn't put forth the
> effort to use nearly 1,000 busses at his disposal to
> evacuate citizens with transportation problems.

1000 busses? Do the math. This was way bigger than 1000 busses.
I agree a little bit with you in that I think the Mayor could have
utilized more of them. But this was way bigger. To have evacuated
all the people with no access to cars in the three states it wasn't
a matter of using just the busses in New Orleans, it was a matter of
sending tens of thousands of busses to three states. This required
coordination at a federal level.

(Just as an aside, this was the anti-public transportaion/pro car
culture of North America taken to a surreal extreme: Gridlock on
the highways, filled with SUVs with only one or two passengers, and
not a hint of more efficient mass transit to be seen---but this time
an emergency evacuation with the less privileged dying while those
with means saving their own skins).

Impeach Bush.

Rob R.