Need help with my audio set-up (enthusiast)

mattclimber

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May 24, 2015
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Hello,

So next week I will buy all parts for my new computer which include my audio set-up.
I have little experience with buying these components (only know how to solder them back together). So would like your advice on what to get.

My whole computer set-up will cost around 3000. It includes everything.
Acer Predator xb270hu, gtx 980 ti, i75820k, 16 or 32gb ram, mouse, keyboard, this audio equipment etc. Still figuring out a few things. The only thing I will not buy is the OS since I still got windows 7.

My main use will be; gaming, editing videos, working on my website, recording talks/discussions, recording music. Which is why I went kind of big on everything to get some proper quality and a system which will not hold me back like the current one.

Here it goes

Headphones:
- Audio: I listen a lot of music but it differs a lot. Though I do not enjoy loud base. But really all kind of different genres.
- I live on my own so open or closed is not that important. The only thing is I do record often music or talks, so if open headphones would spoil that, then I can or not use them or use more closed ones I guess. (also I do game often and if I use a microphone will the open headphones echo my voice through skype/teamspeak etc?)
- I heard since you got 2 speakers the surround sound is almost the same as 2.0 stereo. For gaming or recording would there be a difference?
- I do not like portable headphones, they will always stay around the computer
- Do not need any with special needs. They are for the computer only.

The main need is gaming, creating videos, talks and music. Price range: up till 250 preferred and 300 in a special case.

Speakers:
- Plan on keeping them for a while and not planning on adding extra parts. (except in a special case)
- sound signature, well do not got a favourite but normally just keep it at neutral.
- the size does not matter
- the speakers are for my computer and I use them as well as headphones since I prefer speakers but cannot always use them since the horrible echo.
I do not mind 2.0 or 5.1 etc. Do not care about looks a lot either, basically just the quality of sound. Price range: 300, if they are a big step up 375.

Microphone:
- Will record a lot for my website, videos and music so vocals and instruments.
- So prefer a very clear and quality sound
- Will hook it up to the DAC since that seems to give a better sound quality.
Price range: 200-250

DAC:
- All will be hooked up to it if possible.
- Amplifier included
- What kind of DAC would I need to get the most out of these components?
Price range: Not sure what they will cost but I reckon around 100-150? Or I need more?


Looking forward to your feedback!

Cheers

Matt
 

ssddx

Glorious
Moderator
okay, so you did not get back to me on a few of the questions i had in my first post so i'm making a few assumptions and listing alternate products and its up to you to sort through them unless you give me more to go on.

looked at that site and it was too hard to search so am going with amazon.de pricing.

looking for something bass light and open?
-akg k701 or k702. open with good soundstaging and detail. can be overly bright at times. bass is not very substantial but is fast and punchy. relatively hard to drive so you would want a decent amplifier. (176-194 euro)
-audiotechnica ad500x, 700x, 900x. open with huge soundstage and detail. bright, but not as much as above. very bass light. they do have punchy mid bass but lack depth and quantity to it. the higher up the chain you go the more bass (500->700->900) you get but its still going to be on the light side. (149-279euro)
-hifiman he-300. dont know much about them but the company is well respected for its planar (he400s and above) headphones. these are supposed to have great treble and mids with not as good bass but are easy to drive unlike the akg cans. head fi has a nice writeup on them (279euro)

looking for something neutral and open?
-sennheiser hd518, 558, 598. open with decent soundstaging and decent detail. they are "laid back" cans so while they might be a bit slow and lack some detail they are easy listening for hours on end. they are not bassy but have more than bass light cans will. this series shares the same drivers with only build quality increasing and due to design the lower end being slightly more bassy and the higher end having slightly more soundstaging and neutral presence. (93-169euro)
-beyerdynamic dt880. more neutral version of the dt990 but still it is slightly v-shaped. not quite as peaky in bass and treble with a smoother curve though. they will still be very bright and have a good edge in bass though. good choice if you think the dt990 too harsh as they are slightly toned down. (222-249euro)

looking for something open but with some low end kick?
-beyerdynamic dt990. bright and detailed treble, strong vibrant bass and good soundstaging with great comfort and in europe a great price. if you like v-shaped cans with a bit of bass kick to them (not bass cannon level) then they are a good buy at (139euro)

looking for something closed but not bassy?
-audiotechnica a500x, a700x, a900x. generally the open version is considered superior but they do make a closed version for similar pricing.
-akg k550. i dont know much about this one but like most akg cans are a little bright and not very punchy in bass. closed. (176euro)

looking for something closed but with some bass to it but without being bass cannons or bass-focused?
-beyerdynamic dt770. closed but with surprisingly good soundstage for a closed can. bright crisp treble paired with strong bass response capable of even low tones. v-shaped with recessed mids. very comfortable. (144-195euro)
-vmoda crossfade 80 or 100. these will be a bit on the bassy side though not bass cannons or too weak on treble. they compare heavily to the audiotechncia m50. built like tanks.

of course what i have listed above is just a sampling of your choices.. i advise you to read up on some other headphones from audiotechnica, akg, beyerdynamic, sennheiser and other brands to get a feel for what else is available. head-fi has some good writeups on "best headphones under $xxx" you can look to for advice and ask about here if you arent sure what they mean in comparisions.

what do i think works best for you? hard to say without you giving us more of an idea of what you meant in your first post...

what about soundcards, dac, audio interfaces etc?

again, you did not specify anything so i'll have to give a few options and carpet bomb you with results since i do not know what kind of setup you want. you really need to answer some questions about that.

-soundcards are good if you want to get the best out of both headphones and speakers however are a bit of a waste if you use an audio interface. listening to your mic while you talk is also not easy without delay.
-external dac and amps are good if you want 2.0 sound only and some have aux out for speakers but are not good for inputs or listening to mic while you talk.
-audio interfaces are nice if you want physical control over mixing headphone/microphone sources and if you want to listen while you record but are only 2.0. some offer both headphone and speaker outputs. the amp onboard may or may not be strong enough depending on what choices you made on headphones. if you want virtual surround sound you *might* be able to get it working with either your onboard (on motherboard) audio (if it supports it!) or a cheap soundcard based on what i have heard from another user who claims to have done this but i cant say much more about it.

which is best for you? depends on your needs.

what are some good products?

soundcard
-xonar dg. absolute lowest end you should go and given your setup only if you wanted to take advantage of it for virtual surround when paired up with a usb dac (again, couldnt say much on why this works or how.. someone told me they had it running perfectly on theirs).
-xonar dx. pairs nice with external devices due to low power amp yet quality dac.
-creative z. strong amp which is fine for most lower power headphones though not quite enough for power hungry cans.
-xonar stx. overkill, but works nice with a decent amp and dac mix. basically the dx with a stronger amp. going with an external amp is still likely the better choice though.

audio interfaces
-scarlette 2i2. headphone output, mic input, speaker output, aux xlr input in a nice quality box. good choice for recording from mic or instruments. likewise if you thought you needed the extra inputs/outputs the 2i4 and 2i6 are good. they do have a nice software suite as well. i've read quite a bit more about scarlett products and if i needed one would likely be where i looked first myself.
-presonus audiobox. dont know much about it, but gets recommended as a budget solution.
-steinberg ur22. likewise, do not know much about them but seem to get good reviews.

okay, so what about microphones?

the at2035 is a good all around mic but there are some alternatives to look into:

-rode nt usb.. if using an audio interface is not something you wanted to do.
good comparision of the 2020 and rode usb here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNxbhGdvZ58
-blue spark.. not as bulky as the yeti but with the nice deeper sound of blue mics. likewise, blue makes some other nice similar products.

likewise, there are products i'm not familiar with and you might want to look for some other recommendations and watch/listen to youtube/audio comparisions between microphones to see which you like the most.

what about speakers?

again, you did not provide much direction here.. and as this post is getting long i'll just touch on a few options..

given your europe location, i cant give many brand recommendations but here are a few:

diamond 10.0 or 10.1 bookshelves are a good buy. the newer stuff not so much but the older diamond 9 and 10 series were good. you would need to pair them with an amplifier.

klipsch bookshelves. if you like bright crisp treble you may like the klipsch sound. prices may be high in europe so you'll have to have a look around. i'm on a klipsch setup myself here in the states. again, you would need an amplifier.

swan m10. while not as powerful as the first two, it is self powered and has a mini subwoofer. not really capable of lower end bass or good mid bass nor is it as good as similar priced bookshelf speakers (not counting amp costs) but for the price and what you get it is good. cables are unshielded so might be an issue for some people.

audioengine a2+. similar to the swans, but no subwoofer. can be highly dependent on location they are placed at to sound good and are not high powered but some people find them good and they are not terribly large.

mackie cr4. neutral monitoring speakers. if you're wanting self powered units they are worth looking at.

--

the list above is far from a complete listing of products you could use.. but is an idea of some things to look at to get you started.

again, you really need to be more specific as to your wants/needs/preferences as audio for all speakers/mics/headphones/dac is just too broad to cover without narrowing it down to what you need and connectivity options.



 

shotgunz

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Dec 17, 2011
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What city do you live in? If you're spending that much it's best to find an audio store that lets you demo the headphones before buying them.

"I do game often and if I use a microphone will the open headphones echo my voice through skype/teamspeak"

I literally have zero experience with microphones but would something like a directional modmic ignore the sound leakage of the headphones?
 

ssddx

Glorious
Moderator
okay, before i start listing some recommendations...

first i must ask... budget is in GBP and you are in uk? (given the .co.uk url you sent me to this post)?

this matters quite a bit as product availability and pricing is very different depending on country of origin.

for reference, the pm stream we had is below in case anything got lost in translation to starting this thread:

To: ssddx

From: mattclimber
Sent on: January 24, 2016 8:23 AM
Hello,


Sorry for writing you out of the blue but was looking for information in the forums about Audio for my own set-up and saw some posts of yours and the headphones guide.


Still had a few questions and it would be great if you could give me your opinion since I have only a few more days to decide.

In total I will spend about 3000 on my whole computer set-up. My main purpose is gaming, video editing, website work, recording talks and recording/playing music.

For a microphone so far I had the Audio technica 2035 in mind. It seems to be great and better then the blue yeti etc. But maybe you have a better option. (budget around 250)

Headphones I had Beyerdinamic 880 250/600 ohms in mind or perhaps a Audio tehnica mx50. Do not know too much about all this stuff. Want a headphone which is good for gaming but also for listening to music.
Some said the Beyer is only good for music and not gaming. But I got no idea. (200-300)

Then a DAC is needed to power them. Want a amplifier inside as well for the headphones. The microphone can also be plugged in I guess? Never had a DAC before so no idea what to look for. (100 enough? or with this kind of equipment a better one is needed?)

Then last but not least the Speakers. I listen a lot too music (no parties though), or for movies etc.
Just really only care about quality and not watts.
(the price 300-400 max only if it is very good otherwise 300 is fine)

Thanks a lot and have a great day!

Cheers

Matt
From: ssddx
Sent on: January 24, 2016 9:07 AM
create a thread about this. you can give me the link if you want my input.

be sure to add more details:

for headphones...
-what kind of audio you enjoy most. do you want the headphones to be neutral/natural, bassy, advantageous (bass light) for gaming?
-does it matter if you get open or closed cans (is sound isolation an issue?)
-do you need virtual surround or is 2.0 stereo only fine?
-do they need to be portable?
-any issues like big head/ears/glasses?

for speakers...
-give us an idea of what you were thinking about... stereo bookshelf speakers? pc speakers? 2.0, 2.1, 5.1?
-future upgrade plans at all?
-sound signature you enjoy? (neutral, bassy, treble focused, smooth or aggressive, etc)
-size considerations?

why both speakers and headphones?
also, you might want to list what hardware you are getting for the pc (though $3000 sounds like you are spending too much on the pc if you ask me...or is that total including peripherals, headphone ,speakers, monitor? if so then its not bad considering what you're getting here)

as for mics, the rode nt also is worth looking at if a usb mic will work for you. with the 2035 you will want a good audio interface if quality is paramount - scarlett makes a few nice ones.

also, you should list if you need to hear your own voice while you talk into the mic.

basically.. be as detailed as you can in your post as the more details the easier it is to make recommendations. do continue to space it out like you did here.. it makes it easier to read if its in short thought blocks. (thank you for no wall of text...)
From: mattclimber
Sent on: January 24, 2016 12:58 PM
Thanks for replying.

So like I wrote in the thread I want both since I prefer speakers myself to listen to when I am around the house or hanging out with friends. But you need headphones for gaming and when you speak online since no one likes the horrible echo. Same for sound recording if you want to hear how it goes.

And yes the 3000 is on everything except the OS. And I get a very good deal for basically all my products as well, since my friend will order through his company, so getting a discount.

And what kind of audio interface you need for the 2035? But ill check Scarlett out.
--

i can answer a few of your non-specific product questions in the meantime while i wait to hear back about the first question above.. and ask clarification on a few points you made.

- I heard since you got 2 speakers the surround sound is almost the same as 2.0 stereo. For gaming or recording would there be a difference?

i think you mean 2 drivers, one in each ear and virtual surround. now technically they do make "real surround" headsets with multiple drivers in each ear that are supposed to be "real surround" (its still not the same as speaker surround) but given the small drivers they are more lacking in audio quality compared with units with larger, more expensive and better made drivers. as far as virtual surround.. it changes the audio stream so that it appears to your ears to be like surround sound. its not perfect but some people certainly find it useful and helpful.

here are some examples of virtual modes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ROujJ8Ae8 mainly stereo (2.0 only), sbx/cmss3d and dolby headphone. another test https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BxO9cd-sYA

while actual recreation of sound is heavily dependent on the quality of your headphones and equipment you can get a good idea how virtual would sound and if you like it. remember to watch the above videos with headphones on! (any will work to get an idea)

- Audio: I listen a lot of music but it differs a lot. Though I do not enjoy loud base. But really all kind of different genres.

please clarify this. are you looking for more mid/treble focused headphones with fairly weak bass output since you do not enjoy bass or are you just referring to those extra heavy bass cans like the sony xtra bass, dre beats and similar which have so much bass that everything else is distorted as being bad? also, are you looking for something advantageous in games (though not as thrilling sounding), neutral (not thrilling but tonally accurate) or v-shaped (more treb/bass than mids and "fun" sounding).

- I live on my own so open or closed is not that important. The only thing is I do record often music or talks, so if open headphones would spoil that, then I can or not use them or use more closed ones I guess. (also I do game often and if I use a microphone will the open headphones echo my voice through skype/teamspeak etc?)

generally this is not a problem unless you have your mic gain set to crazy levels and/or have the volume level in your headphones set to very high levels. there are tons of people who record with open headphones. as long as you manage your volume levels you should be fine. if you are terribly worried about it you could certainly get closed but then you lose out on soundstaging (how 3d headphones sound and how much depth [distance sounds appear to be] from your ears). soundstaging (depth, height of audio) works out very well with good positional accuracy (360 degree sound placement) to give you the best advantage in games.

-I do not mind 2.0 or 5.1 etc. Do not care about looks a lot either, basically just the quality of sound. Price range: 300, if they are a big step up 375.

so surround sound is not terribly important to you. all you want is a good quality level. also, given your bass statement earlier would you be happy with something that is not terribly deep on bass (for instance bookshelves used without a subwoofer) or did you want a bit of deep bass for your music and casual gaming moments?

- Will hook it up to the DAC since that seems to give a better sound quality.

headphone dac units typically do not accept input and allow mixing with headphone audio. if you want to hook everything up to something it will likely be a pc soundcard (for headphones and analog 3.5mm mic only) or audio interface in the case of xlr units. usb units of course will ignore either of these and use usb. this is why product choice will vary heavily upon what you intend to do.

normally i would say if you use an external dac, audio interface device or similar you would lose out on virtual surround support - however i have heard confirmation from another user on here who ended up with an external headphone amp and dac who also bought a soundcard that they had virtual surround working fine. i just thought i would list that. i couldnt give you any details other than repeating what they have told me.

a scarlett 2i2 or similar would give you the ability to have mic input from an xlr source (like the 2035) and have output to headphones. it will input to pc for recording and output without lag to headphones at the same time for mixing purposes. there are of course other brands and models but this is just an example.

--

other things to consider:

if you are serious about recording quality you will want to look at getting a nice boom arm or mic stand. a stand not connected to a desk is ideal since it will not transfer vibration from hands on the desk, fan noise, etc though if it is mounted far enough away from such sources or on a very solid desk without such issues it may not be a problem.

also you will want a shock mount and pop filter. windtech has a nice low profile design while you could also use a fuzzy if you preferred.

as for speakers, at this moment i'm thinking you could be well served by a pair of bookshelf speakers and an external amplifier since that gives you a nice convenient volume knob without a subwoofer. similarly, you could be well served by a pair of powered speakers.

--

do answer what country and currency we are talking about as well as comments on the above. that certainly will help with product recommendation.

yes, i know its quite alot of text to read through.


 

mattclimber

Estimable
May 24, 2015
3
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Just to answer your first question quick. I will buy it all in a German shop, so with euro. Well I used to live in the UK and all my settings are set to British English etc.
 

ssddx

Glorious
Moderator
okay, so you did not get back to me on a few of the questions i had in my first post so i'm making a few assumptions and listing alternate products and its up to you to sort through them unless you give me more to go on.

looked at that site and it was too hard to search so am going with amazon.de pricing.

looking for something bass light and open?
-akg k701 or k702. open with good soundstaging and detail. can be overly bright at times. bass is not very substantial but is fast and punchy. relatively hard to drive so you would want a decent amplifier. (176-194 euro)
-audiotechnica ad500x, 700x, 900x. open with huge soundstage and detail. bright, but not as much as above. very bass light. they do have punchy mid bass but lack depth and quantity to it. the higher up the chain you go the more bass (500->700->900) you get but its still going to be on the light side. (149-279euro)
-hifiman he-300. dont know much about them but the company is well respected for its planar (he400s and above) headphones. these are supposed to have great treble and mids with not as good bass but are easy to drive unlike the akg cans. head fi has a nice writeup on them (279euro)

looking for something neutral and open?
-sennheiser hd518, 558, 598. open with decent soundstaging and decent detail. they are "laid back" cans so while they might be a bit slow and lack some detail they are easy listening for hours on end. they are not bassy but have more than bass light cans will. this series shares the same drivers with only build quality increasing and due to design the lower end being slightly more bassy and the higher end having slightly more soundstaging and neutral presence. (93-169euro)
-beyerdynamic dt880. more neutral version of the dt990 but still it is slightly v-shaped. not quite as peaky in bass and treble with a smoother curve though. they will still be very bright and have a good edge in bass though. good choice if you think the dt990 too harsh as they are slightly toned down. (222-249euro)

looking for something open but with some low end kick?
-beyerdynamic dt990. bright and detailed treble, strong vibrant bass and good soundstaging with great comfort and in europe a great price. if you like v-shaped cans with a bit of bass kick to them (not bass cannon level) then they are a good buy at (139euro)

looking for something closed but not bassy?
-audiotechnica a500x, a700x, a900x. generally the open version is considered superior but they do make a closed version for similar pricing.
-akg k550. i dont know much about this one but like most akg cans are a little bright and not very punchy in bass. closed. (176euro)

looking for something closed but with some bass to it but without being bass cannons or bass-focused?
-beyerdynamic dt770. closed but with surprisingly good soundstage for a closed can. bright crisp treble paired with strong bass response capable of even low tones. v-shaped with recessed mids. very comfortable. (144-195euro)
-vmoda crossfade 80 or 100. these will be a bit on the bassy side though not bass cannons or too weak on treble. they compare heavily to the audiotechncia m50. built like tanks.

of course what i have listed above is just a sampling of your choices.. i advise you to read up on some other headphones from audiotechnica, akg, beyerdynamic, sennheiser and other brands to get a feel for what else is available. head-fi has some good writeups on "best headphones under $xxx" you can look to for advice and ask about here if you arent sure what they mean in comparisions.

what do i think works best for you? hard to say without you giving us more of an idea of what you meant in your first post...

what about soundcards, dac, audio interfaces etc?

again, you did not specify anything so i'll have to give a few options and carpet bomb you with results since i do not know what kind of setup you want. you really need to answer some questions about that.

-soundcards are good if you want to get the best out of both headphones and speakers however are a bit of a waste if you use an audio interface. listening to your mic while you talk is also not easy without delay.
-external dac and amps are good if you want 2.0 sound only and some have aux out for speakers but are not good for inputs or listening to mic while you talk.
-audio interfaces are nice if you want physical control over mixing headphone/microphone sources and if you want to listen while you record but are only 2.0. some offer both headphone and speaker outputs. the amp onboard may or may not be strong enough depending on what choices you made on headphones. if you want virtual surround sound you *might* be able to get it working with either your onboard (on motherboard) audio (if it supports it!) or a cheap soundcard based on what i have heard from another user who claims to have done this but i cant say much more about it.

which is best for you? depends on your needs.

what are some good products?

soundcard
-xonar dg. absolute lowest end you should go and given your setup only if you wanted to take advantage of it for virtual surround when paired up with a usb dac (again, couldnt say much on why this works or how.. someone told me they had it running perfectly on theirs).
-xonar dx. pairs nice with external devices due to low power amp yet quality dac.
-creative z. strong amp which is fine for most lower power headphones though not quite enough for power hungry cans.
-xonar stx. overkill, but works nice with a decent amp and dac mix. basically the dx with a stronger amp. going with an external amp is still likely the better choice though.

audio interfaces
-scarlette 2i2. headphone output, mic input, speaker output, aux xlr input in a nice quality box. good choice for recording from mic or instruments. likewise if you thought you needed the extra inputs/outputs the 2i4 and 2i6 are good. they do have a nice software suite as well. i've read quite a bit more about scarlett products and if i needed one would likely be where i looked first myself.
-presonus audiobox. dont know much about it, but gets recommended as a budget solution.
-steinberg ur22. likewise, do not know much about them but seem to get good reviews.

okay, so what about microphones?

the at2035 is a good all around mic but there are some alternatives to look into:

-rode nt usb.. if using an audio interface is not something you wanted to do.
good comparision of the 2020 and rode usb here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNxbhGdvZ58
-blue spark.. not as bulky as the yeti but with the nice deeper sound of blue mics. likewise, blue makes some other nice similar products.

likewise, there are products i'm not familiar with and you might want to look for some other recommendations and watch/listen to youtube/audio comparisions between microphones to see which you like the most.

what about speakers?

again, you did not provide much direction here.. and as this post is getting long i'll just touch on a few options..

given your europe location, i cant give many brand recommendations but here are a few:

diamond 10.0 or 10.1 bookshelves are a good buy. the newer stuff not so much but the older diamond 9 and 10 series were good. you would need to pair them with an amplifier.

klipsch bookshelves. if you like bright crisp treble you may like the klipsch sound. prices may be high in europe so you'll have to have a look around. i'm on a klipsch setup myself here in the states. again, you would need an amplifier.

swan m10. while not as powerful as the first two, it is self powered and has a mini subwoofer. not really capable of lower end bass or good mid bass nor is it as good as similar priced bookshelf speakers (not counting amp costs) but for the price and what you get it is good. cables are unshielded so might be an issue for some people.

audioengine a2+. similar to the swans, but no subwoofer. can be highly dependent on location they are placed at to sound good and are not high powered but some people find them good and they are not terribly large.

mackie cr4. neutral monitoring speakers. if you're wanting self powered units they are worth looking at.

--

the list above is far from a complete listing of products you could use.. but is an idea of some things to look at to get you started.

again, you really need to be more specific as to your wants/needs/preferences as audio for all speakers/mics/headphones/dac is just too broad to cover without narrowing it down to what you need and connectivity options.



 

shotgunz

Distinguished
Dec 17, 2011
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I'd recommend him a Hifiman HE400i if you can find one on sale. They were on sale for $300USD a month ago so if you could find a pair just north of 300USD equivalent in the currency you use, they great all around neutral sounding planar that measures very well.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANHE4002014.pdf

I had the pleasure of demoing a pair at the Toronto mini headfi meet last November and they were light, comfortable and stole the show for me. I found them even better than the legendary Sennheiser HD600 in comfort and sound.

If you are going the AKG route, I'd recommend the K612 over the 700 series. The 701 is a classic but 612 is a similar and much more recent model that is cheaper yet sounds less sibilant.
 

ssddx

Glorious
Moderator
the he-400 looks to be in budget (barely). the 400i or 400s are not. going by amazon.de prices here and euro budget prices.

agreed, and i was going to list them as an option. planar headphones are certainly worth a listen. i looked at the prices and i thought "out of budget" so deleted that from my response. just looked at the 400 and saw one that looked within budget so perhaps i should have included it.

they are however not very comfortable out of the box some users say. you might need to break them or use different pads with them if you dont like how they feel.
 
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