Who Designed This Crap? The Great Ipod Scam

[mpasternak]

LET ME just add one more quick quib to the gapless debate

i've copied over my entire library. every trak is an individual mp3. i'm now nowhere near a computer or my itunes library.

NOW how do enable gapless?

I can't.

there's no workaround in this scenario. a simple menu option WOULD be nice

 

[nilepez]

Jeez, its not that there is no way to do this, its that such a stupidly simple feature should be included on every major MP3 player. I'm trying to have a discussion on music management software, not boost my own ego. Mr M__S appears to be ranting a fair bit without much content so I'm going to reply to the patently obvious problem of "how do I listen to an album without gaps when my player puts in pauses between tracks". Please can we shut the hell up about it now?

Yes, you rip it as a single track.

Well done, you've told everyone something totally self-evident. Now why don't you talk about something useful.

What I want to know is why the most popular player on the market with a huge development team cannot implement a feature that others have reliably managed to do while programming in their spare time. For iPod not to have gapless playback is a joke, and should be fixed.

Surely the prevailing MP3 player should be the one with the most advanced feature set and capabilities that out-shine the competition. Gapless playback is the basics, MP3 player design 101.

Hang it up, he's just a troll. He'll deny it, but he is.

 

[M_S]

Jeez, its not that there is no way to do this, its that such a stupidly simple feature should be included on every major MP3 player. I'm trying to have a discussion on music management software, not boost my own ego. Mr M__S appears to be ranting a fair bit without much content so I'm going to reply to the patently obvious problem of "how do I listen to an album without gaps when my player puts in pauses between tracks". Please can we shut the hell up about it now?

Yes, you rip it as a single track.

Well done, you've told everyone something totally self-evident. Now why don't you talk about something useful.

What I want to know is why the most popular player on the market with a huge development team cannot implement a feature that others have reliably managed to do while programming in their spare time. For iPod not to have gapless playback is a joke, and should be fixed.

Surely the prevailing MP3 player should be the one with the most advanced feature set and capabilities that out-shine the competition. Gapless playback is the basics, MP3 player design 101.

Hang it up, he's just a troll. He'll deny it, but he is.

Boy, you sure talk about the Apple fanboy's around here but what about the (I guess) "all others" fanboys. Someone points out that you are wrong and all you can do is say "troll"?

Are you still upset about not being able to put forth coherent argument in type?

M_S

 

[mpasternak]

I hereby dub you sir

"iTroll"



you've yet to actually tell us something new.

you've given us the same "one file" work around. now tell us how we're to do it if we're nowhere near a computer or our itunes library?

like right now. as i said and many others. if apple put a firmware upgrade in place that added a menu item as simple as "no gap / gap" it would solve it completely without the needs of work arounds

and as i said. work arounds arent appropriate in everyday scenarios.

THIS IS A PROFESSIONAL OPINION. not one of a fanboy or anti fanboy. I am a former IT MANAGER of a multimillion $ company. i also do programming now in PHP / SQL for a major database application for this company. if i accidently omit a simple feature (i have too) i can't just tell the users. ohhh screw it. do "this and this" to do the same thing.. SURE it'll take you an extra 10 minutes to do it each time. but it will do it.

no. i have to reprogram it into the files and database.

 

[killersnowman]

It's nice to find people who can see through Microsoft's BS.

While it's nice that Microsoft finally has a hit product on its hands, it came at a very high price.
Overnight, Microsoft became an Evil Empire. All of a sudden, Apple doesn't look like such a bad company after all.

Berry forgot to include the amusing fact that iDOS won't play ACC files even though it works on the Mac OS. Better still, iFUD copies the ACC files and converts the copies. This creates two versions of the same song file.
So much for innovation, Microsoft.

Personally, I demand more than the iFUD can deliver. I use my rotary phone as my media player. It plays my music file formats without DRM restrictions, uses the SD card for storage (4 GB), connects with the internet, syncs with Mail apps and...handles phone calls. And has a really, Really, REALLY long extension cord!

I figure iFUD owners either don't know about its limitations or just don't care.
Either way, I know I have the better product.
Best of all, it's not mired in hype and BS. It just works..with everything.

Thanks Microsoft for showing the world that you're just as greedy and selfish as the bigger corporations you made fun of.
Who designed this crap? Microsoft

After 30 years, this is all we get.

:tongue:

There, fixed that!

Envy, it's a bitch, ain't it!

A certain song comes to mind, "I fell good, ....

Of course, this song is playing on my NANO (DId I sid spell it right according to this brain iFarticle?) headphones as I do the pencil sharpener motion (hand behind my back) while walking down the street, and encounter a DOS fanboi listening to music on their 0.00000000000001% market share player!

:tongue:

i think that you are the epitomy of what is wrong with the ipod craze. you obviosly only care about market share and make your deciscisions based on such; even when the reason for the market share is the multi million ad campaign that is sponsored by the big recording institutions. so basicly you just follow the crowd. thats ok and all but you will all fall off the cliff together

:tongue:

No, you missed the basic point of my jab.

It's all about turning tables, metaphorically speaking!

Being an admitted Mac fanboi all these years, and listening to all those Apple whiners over the years, in the various Mac forums, to come here and listen to you all, is really, Really, REALLY fun!

Payback is a bitch, ain't it?

PS - If you really, Really, REALLY, knew me (as many others do), the very, Very, VERY last thought on your mind would be "LEMMING."

:tongue:

i dont know you and i doubt many on the forum know you but all i have to judge you by is your words. and all your words said was "i have a large market share mp3 player! shame on the rest of you and your small market share items!" or better yet "i am a lemming"

 

[theDudeAbides]

Jeez, its not that there is no way to do this, its that such a stupidly simple feature should be included on every major MP3 player. I'm trying to have a discussion on music management software, not boost my own ego. Mr M__S appears to be ranting a fair bit without much content so I'm going to reply to the patently obvious problem of "how do I listen to an album without gaps when my player puts in pauses between tracks". Please can we shut the hell up about it now?

Yes, you rip it as a single track.

Well done, you've told everyone something totally self-evident. Now why don't you talk about something useful.

What I want to know is why the most popular player on the market with a huge development team cannot implement a feature that others have reliably managed to do while programming in their spare time. For iPod not to have gapless playback is a joke, and should be fixed.

Surely the prevailing MP3 player should be the one with the most advanced feature set and capabilities that out-shine the competition. Gapless playback is the basics, MP3 player design 101.

Hang it up, he's just a troll. He'll deny it, but he is.

Boy, you sure talk about the Apple fanboy's around here but what about the (I guess) "all others" fanboys. Someone points out that you are wrong and all you can do is say "troll"?

Are you still upset about not being able to put forth coherent argument in type?

M_S

Hmmm, interesting. Most interesting.

How about: You're plain wrong because your player is only playing one track (the album) and not joining many tracks together seamlessly.

I don't like your use of language and given the overwhelming number of posts pointing out the flaws in your argument most people would have perhaps tried reasoning by now, instead you nit-pick semantics and avoid the main argument. I'm tired of this thread, it was promising at first but people like M__S seem to jump on popular threads and pick fights. Sod it, back to work.
And M__S - go do a degree in Computer Science or something logical and then we might be able to make sense of each other.

 

[nilepez]

Jeez, its not that there is no way to do this, its that such a stupidly simple feature should be included on every major MP3 player. I'm trying to have a discussion on music management software, not boost my own ego. Mr M__S appears to be ranting a fair bit without much content so I'm going to reply to the patently obvious problem of "how do I listen to an album without gaps when my player puts in pauses between tracks". Please can we shut the hell up about it now?

Yes, you rip it as a single track.

Well done, you've told everyone something totally self-evident. Now why don't you talk about something useful.

What I want to know is why the most popular player on the market with a huge development team cannot implement a feature that others have reliably managed to do while programming in their spare time. For iPod not to have gapless playback is a joke, and should be fixed.

Surely the prevailing MP3 player should be the one with the most advanced feature set and capabilities that out-shine the competition. Gapless playback is the basics, MP3 player design 101.

Hang it up, he's just a troll. He'll deny it, but he is.

Boy, you sure talk about the Apple fanboy's around here but what about the (I guess) "all others" fanboys. Someone points out that you are wrong and all you can do is say "troll"?

Are you still upset about not being able to put forth coherent argument in type?

M_S

MS, the only person who thinks your points are worth anything are you. As I said before, you're a consensus of 1.

Nobody in this debate is talking about Apple fanboys. They're talking about a troll who goes by the name M_S

 

[M_S]

I hereby dub you sir

"iTroll"



you've yet to actually tell us something new.

you've given us the same "one file" work around. now tell us how we're to do it if we're nowhere near a computer or our itunes library?

like right now. as i said and many others. if apple put a firmware upgrade in place that added a menu item as simple as "no gap / gap" it would solve it completely without the needs of work arounds

and as i said. work arounds arent appropriate in everyday scenarios.

THIS IS A PROFESSIONAL OPINION. not one of a fanboy or anti fanboy. I am a former IT MANAGER of a multimillion $ company. i also do programming now in PHP / SQL for a major database application for this company. if i accidently omit a simple feature (i have too) i can't just tell the users. ohhh screw it. do "this and this" to do the same thing.. SURE it'll take you an extra 10 minutes to do it each time. but it will do it.

no. i have to reprogram it into the files and database.

Why do you continually change the argument and make it about what "you" want? It's a bit perplexing (yet great insight into the person you are) and does little if nothing to further the discussion we had. Had anyone mentioned "the inappropriate workarounds", as you call them, in the first place we would not be in this mess. You fail to read, understand and reply intelligently. Do that and maybe we can get on to these new topics you put forth.

How can I, as you put it, "tell you anything new" when you fail to grasp the original concept?

M_S

 

[mpasternak]

WHAT

THE

FUCK

ARE

YOU

TALKIN

ABOUT

 

[M_S]

WHAT

THE

FUCK

ARE

YOU

TALKIN

ABOUT

Again with the profanity. It is truly becoming apparant the type of person you are.

M_S

 

[mpasternak]

now correct me if i'm wrong

the discussion we're having is about the ability for the ipod to handle different issues that have arised. ONE of those issues has been it's built in inability to remove the gap of time between different files.

the work around you've provide is to combine those multiple files into a single file. thus way the gap is non existant since it's one file.

fine. that is a WORKABLE solution to the problem

but it's not a practical solution as we've argued. yes it WORKS. but by doing that solution a couple other issues arise for us. such as losing the ability to jump between the individual tracks in that one file. and you can't do it on the fly without the use of your computer.

because of those drawbacks. we as a concensus have said it's not a suitable solution for most of us. by us I don't just mean me. i mean the vast majority of the posters in this forum.

we then question why can't apple make a simple patch to add this feature. at this point you keep telling us we're avoiding the issue and we're stupid because the work around exists. we keep responding by telling you it's not appropriate work around and doesnt solve what it should adequately.

at that point you still insist we're idiots and we're avoiding the issue and being selfish and everything you've argued

i repeat "what the fuck are you talking about" as you've not given us an ounce of argument further than "combine the files into one". we have already stated that as a group we don't like that solution cause it raises other problems

you are trolling. sir iTroll. you need to understand what we're talkin about before YOU begin to question our intelligence.

 

[killersnowman]

And M__S - go do a degree in Computer Science or something logical and then we might be able to make sense of each other.

computer science for the win! woot

 

[M_S]

now correct me if i'm wrong

the discussion we're having is about the ability for the ipod to handle different issues that have arised. ONE of those issues has been it's built in inability to remove the gap of time between different files.

the work around you've provide is to combine those multiple files into a single file. thus way the gap is non existant since it's one file.

fine. that is a WORKABLE solution to the problem

but it's not a practical solution as we've argued. yes it WORKS. but by doing that solution a couple other issues arise for us. such as losing the ability to jump between the individual tracks in that one file. and you can't do it on the fly without the use of your computer.

because of those drawbacks. we as a concensus have said it's not a suitable solution for most of us. by us I don't just mean me. i mean the vast majority of the posters in this forum.

we then question why can't apple make a simple patch to add this feature. at this point you keep telling us we're avoiding the issue and we're stupid because the work around exists. we keep responding by telling you it's not appropriate work around and doesnt solve what it should adequately.

at that point you still insist we're idiots and we're avoiding the issue and being selfish and everything you've argued

i repeat "what the fuck are you talking about" as you've not given us an ounce of argument further than "combine the files into one". we have already stated that as a group we don't like that solution cause it raises other problems

you are trolling. sir iTroll. you need to understand what we're talkin about before YOU begin to question our intelligence.

You did it again, should I count the number of times you we and I?

I know that you understand what I am saying, I read between the lines of your words and I get that. What baffles me is that you think this is all about you (and the other few who have posted like you) and say "that's all that matters", "we don't like this and it's a simple fix so do it", and "other players do this exceptionally well, why won't this one".

It's not all about you. If it were, I would say it's fine to make blanket statements that could mislead others, but it's not. Do you really feel that you are the collective voice for all DAP users? Do you feel that you have to right, in writing, to disavow features because they are not real-world solutions for YOU? It's ok, I see how you think now. You feel it's better to tell a half-truth (as it fits your opinion) than a fully documented fact, that is a pity.

M_S

 

[filmdirector]

Hello Barry Gerber:

You are what you criticize.
Have you done some research before you bought your stuff?
Or, YOU just compulsively bought your mp3 player to discover it did not fit your needs. And now you are making others believe that you have nightmares and blame OTHERS for your mistakes.

I own a MAC.
And I HAVE NOT bought and iPod.
Guess what!!!
I HAVE a MUVO.
Because I don’t need and iPod…

I say YOU wrote this CRAP, with crappy feelings that basically came from yourself
You, basically, wrote this CRAP to create controversy and to be in the center spot.

CRAP like this does nothing to help people make smart buying decisions
And CRAP like is just an incentive to hate, not to be rational.

Frankly, I am concerned with these GOD Vs EVIL characterizations.
Grow up!!!

Jose E Castejon

.....This discussion is a case study in consumer loyalty. It's amazing to see how personally invested folks can get in "stuff." It's only "STUFF !" It seems like people are losing sleep over this. Steve Jobs is a genious in creating consumer brand loyalty. There is also a giant "GAP," in this discussion thread over "GAPS" between music selections. What the F was that all about ?
.....Mr. Gurber expressed EXACTLY how I felt about the whole Ipod thing. As an owner of a movie studio myself, I pay close attention to Jobs' approach. HD-DVD & Blue Ray are already obselete before they are outta the gate ! Who needs packaged media ? ! We sure don't ! It costs 100's of thousands of Dollars for us to manufacture, warehouse and distribute this stuff. I prefer to setup a server here at our offices and just let them do an on line transaction and download a DVD image, HD DVD Image, DIVX, WMV, XVID, MPEG 4 and play that off of their PC HD's and watch it on their big screen HD TV's. Heck, let them burn their own HD DVD's.
.....We've got yah by the balls and we like it that way ;-) Sorry for going off topic as well. Apple has an interesting rip off business model. We like that !

 

[zonda_s]

wow.. that article pretty much puts everything i hate about the ipod line into well... an article. :roll:

i admit it, i've been an ipod hater since the start. i own an iRiver H320 and a Creative Zen Vision:M. these 2 mp3 players kill the ipod hands down. before apple thought about video playback, my iRiver alredy had it. FM tuner and voice recorder?? ipod never had it but both of my players had it. plus they have better sound quality. and for the same price as the ipods. so which would you choose? better features or a crappy mp3 player cuz so-and-so has one?? i mean, that's basically how apple's been getting sales. cuz of gullible people who are too lazy to do their research. here's the research for you guys who still think the ipod's better based on the competition at the time of production:

H320 vs iPod photo:

H320 has what the iPod has PLUS:
-does NOT require software to tranfer songs and files (NO DRM!!). even works on Macs
-can play videos, has a text viewer, voice recorder, radio tuner, graphics equalizer and SRS audio processor
-has a 3rd party firmware called Rockbox that is fully customizable, has FLAC support, a Gameboy emulator, a bunch of games and features such as a calculator.

Zen Vision:M vs iPod 5G (video):

ZVM has what the iPod has PLUS:
-support for more mainstream video codecs (DivX, Xvid, mpeg, wmv, etc) which means less chance of having to convert videos.
-more simplified media transfer software (drag and drop capable)
-a display with more vibrant colours
-voice recorder, radio tuner
-different colour themes available
-ability to put wallpapers on display
-5 band custom equalizer (duno if the ipod has this)
-ability to change touch pad sensitivity settings for users who have trouble navigating menus
-customizable menus and a shortcut button
-very simplified touch pad (up=up, down=down. no need for "is clockwise up or down???")

so that pretty much sums up why i would choose any mp3 player over the ipod. damn North Amercan MP3 player market is so dilluted thanks to the iPod. there are way more MP3 players in Asia that can give the iPod a run for its money.

 

[mpasternak]

M_S

as a relative being i can only state what i perceive from the world around me and those i have come in contact with. when i speak i do not attempt to include the world outside my immediate contact. if that is what you think i'm doing.

I am not the vast majority nor do i speak for it. I HOWEVER read whats gone in here and can come to the conclusion tha there IS a group of users who have spent their money on a product who have a gripe with a given feature.

I can state what I WOULD like to see done. but it does mean shit if it's not an issue that apple has addressed. I would Like apple to make an option. it's fairly easy option to make. but it's apparently been decided that it's not an option they will make. someone with the decision power elsewhere has deemed it unneccesary.

does that give them, or YOU the right to tell me to shut up? no. i have every right to voice my opinion about what problems i have. it doesn't mean they have to address it.

for now your work around IS the only one available for the solution. we've and I have accepted that. (By WE i don't mean the world i mean those who have discussed it in this thread. Remember, WE is relative to the perceivable). this STIll doesnt mean that we wouldnt welcome apple to make a change either. if someone at apple decides to do it. great! if not. than we'll still have our complaint and our work around

now on to you. you've done nothing but play semantics and knowningly argued them without addressing the actual REAL issue. the issue isn't wether i Say "I" or "We". the issue is that there's a technical issue that some people have. whether there's 1 person with the issue or 100,000,000. the issue is still there. instead of arguing this, you've argued semantics and dictionary definitions. youv'e had nothing other than that to add to the debate and discussion. you are trolling and causing a nuisance. instead of us talking about what we like / dislike about the ipod we've been lowered to arguing semantics with you. you've interjected your argumentative behaviour into everyone elses discussion and have then continued to troll and flame.

i think yo need to take a few minutes. step back and realize what we're saying is not an 'official' standpoint of any sort but us disussing what we like or dislike about it. not a debate over the direction apple will take. we all know thats way beyond our individual means

 

[mpasternak]

i understand what you mean. but there;s some myths' that need to be dispelled. (and some to agree upon. hell i love my ipod, but it aint perfect)

- does NOT require software to tranfer songs and files (NO DRM!!). even works on Macs
Yes the Ipod requires Itunes. i'll agree that it's a pain. HOWEVER. the DRM issue is a completely seperate one. only itune distributed media has DRM. any other audio format is subject to the identical things thats every other player has. Mp3 is Mp3 is mp3 across the board. even on the ipod. itunes doesnt take existing emp3's and assign DRM to them. only their downloaded music.... don't buy itunes music you don't have DRM.

-can play videos, has a text viewer, voice recorder, radio tuner, graphics equalizer and SRS audio processor
iPods have Videos and Text viewers default. you can purchase additions voice recorder, radio tuners for it. would it be nice to have them built in. yes. but whatever.

-has a 3rd party firmware called Rockbox that is fully customizable, has FLAC support, a Gameboy emulator, a bunch of games and features such as a calculator.
Rockbox is a 3rd party ap and isnt supported by ANY company that makes a DAP. however. there is an ipod version and you can instal rockbox on any ipod. so this is the same across the board.

-support for more mainstream video codecs (DivX, Xvid, mpeg, wmv, etc) which means less chance of having to convert videos.
I will agree. apple playing these formats would be nice. however they use the standard MP4 format thats becomming a standard so hopefully it will be ok. (same format as the PSP)

-more simplified media transfer software (drag and drop capable)
dude.. itunes.. so fucking simple anyone can use it. in some sense it's easier than file management. drop it to itunes and itunes sorts it by anything automatically and trasfers it for you. both are simple. one just requires software

-a display with more vibrant colours
can you show me some specs. i'm not sure where to find them. the ipod video itself can display 65,353 colour (basically the same as any PDA can and is 2" screen). the colour thing i think is moot

-different colour themes available
-ability to put wallpapers on display
-5 band custom equalizer (duno if the ipod has this)
-ability to change touch pad sensitivity settings for users who have trouble navigating menus
-customizable menus and a shortcut button

Agreed. wish apple would have these

-very simplified touch pad (up=up, down=down. no need for "is clockwise up or down???")
mehhhh. i find the ipod simple as hell. this is a personal preference though.

 

[M_S]

M_S

as a relative being i can only state what i perceive from the world around me and those i have come in contact with. when i speak i do not attempt to include the world outside my immediate contact. if that is what you think i'm doing.

I am not the vast majority nor do i speak for it. I HOWEVER read whats gone in here and can come to the conclusion tha there IS a group of users who have spent their money on a product who have a gripe with a given feature.

I can state what I WOULD like to see done. but it does mean shit if it's not an issue that apple has addressed. I would Like apple to make an option. it's fairly easy option to make. but it's apparently been decided that it's not an option they will make. someone with the decision power elsewhere has deemed it unneccesary.

does that give them, or YOU the right to tell me to shut up? no. i have every right to voice my opinion about what problems i have. it doesn't mean they have to address it.

for now your work around IS the only one available for the solution. we've and I have accepted that. (By WE i don't mean the world i mean those who have discussed it in this thread. Remember, WE is relative to the perceivable). this STIll doesnt mean that we wouldnt welcome apple to make a change either. if someone at apple decides to do it. great! if not. than we'll still have our complaint and our work around

now on to you. you've done nothing but play semantics and knowningly argued them without addressing the actual REAL issue. the issue isn't wether i Say "I" or "We". the issue is that there's a technical issue that some people have. whether there's 1 person with the issue or 100,000,000. the issue is still there. instead of arguing this, you've argued semantics and dictionary definitions. youv'e had nothing other than that to add to the debate and discussion. you are trolling and causing a nuisance. instead of us talking about what we like / dislike about the ipod we've been lowered to arguing semantics with you. you've interjected your argumentative behaviour into everyone elses discussion and have then continued to troll and flame.

i think yo need to take a few minutes. step back and realize what we're saying is not an 'official' standpoint of any sort but us disussing what we like or dislike about it. not a debate over the direction apple will take. we all know thats way beyond our individual means

I think I mentioned "denial" a while back, good to see it's a pertinant view.

I don't have a problem with your opinion, unless you don't qualify it as such (you didn't at first) and let your words misguide the whole truth. If correcting you when you mis-state fact, as such, is a nuisance then your view is warped. If you think that I ever told you to "SHUT UP" then your vision of reality is, again, warped. You tend to make things up according to how you interpret them, rather than how they are actually typed. Again, this is fine as long as you don't try to pass it as the truth.

I would think the true definition of "troll" would be the one misrepresenting the facts. I have not done this, have you?

M_S

 

[mpasternak]

M_S

in stating Opinion. there is no fact.

yu can USE fact to endorse your opinion. but you can't say yours or my opinion is fact.

no one is disputing the facts. there IS a problem. there IS a work around.

whether I, or anyone else LIKES the work around is Opinion.

because this is our opinion and my opinion, we have right to say it. you have right to state your opinion elsewise

 

[nilepez]

I would think the true definition of "troll" would be the one misrepresenting the facts. I have not done this, have you?

M_S

Let's say we were talking about a CD player. Let's assume there's one that always inserts a small gap between each track. Would you be whining about misrepresenting the facts if I'd said it couldn't play back an album without gaps?

Or to be more specific if I'd said, Personally, I think the best reason to avoid the this cd player is its inability to play back albums without inserting pops or gaps between songs, would you still be arguing?