New motherboard, can't seem to get 5.1 working as I'd like.

[plasmas222]

Recently upgraded my motherboard to an ASUS Z87-DELUXE <specs>. Since then I have tried every simple solution I can find to get my audio working correctly, but no luck.

A little more info: I am using a Sony STR-DN1030 receiver <specs>. I have my speakers & sub set up for 5.1. On my old motherboard I used a coaxial cable to the same receiver in the same setup and had no issues. Since no coaxial connection on the new board, I'm using SPDIF instead.

Everything works great, except the sub. The only time it works is when a DTS stream is playing or I can enable AC3 live encoding. So, my question is this - what's the best way to get all my non-surround sound audio to play in 5.1? ( I realize this isn't exactly what's going on, I just want to hear the sub) Do I need to get a sound card? Connect my computer and receiver differently?

I've tried combining AC3Filter and Virtual Audio Cable, but it looses a lot of quality this way... Need a better solution.

Please and thanks for any/all suggestions or advice. =D

 

[HillBillyAsian]

well if you're using a asus mobo, usually it runs realtek hd manager, open it up and set the room correction for 5.1

 

[Pinhedd]

Recently upgraded my motherboard to an ASUS Z87-DELUXE <specs>. Since then I have tried every simple solution I can find to get my audio working correctly, but no luck.

A little more info: I am using a Sony STR-DN1030 receiver <specs>. I have my speakers & sub set up for 5.1. On my old motherboard I used a coaxial cable to the same receiver in the same setup and had no issues. Since no coaxial connection on the new board, I'm using SPDIF instead.

Everything works great, except the sub. The only time it works is when a DTS stream is playing or I can enable AC3 live encoding. So, my question is this - what's the best way to get all my non-surround sound audio to play in 5.1? ( I realize this isn't exactly what's going on, I just want to hear the sub) Do I need to get a sound card? Connect my computer and receiver differently?

I've tried combining AC3Filter and Virtual Audio Cable, but it looses a lot of quality this way... Need a better solution.

Please and thanks for any/all suggestions or advice. =D

S/PDIF does not support more than two channels of uncompressed audio. You are limited to Mono (single channel LPCM), Stereo (two channel LPCM), AC3, and DTS. Common surround systems which use four, six, or eight channel LPCM are not supported by S/PDIF. The only way to send these to an external receiver is to encode them into AC3 or DTS in real time.

Unfortunately, there is only one licensed method which does this, it's called Dolby Digital Live (AC3), and has a counterpart called DTS Connect. These are hardware technologies built into some Creative Labs, Asus, CMedia, and Realtek audio chipsets. You will have to look at your motherboard specifications to see if the technologies are supported. If they are not, you are completely SOL as far as getting surround over S/PDIF unless it's already encoded in AC3 or DTS.

If you do have support for DDL/DTSConnect, install them and enable them. Then, configure your "Speakers" playback device as 5.1/48Khz. Use the speakers as the default playback device (do not send anything to the S/PDIF port at all, it will be occupied 100% of the time by the real time encoder).

Make sure that you disable full range on all speakers. This is an option in Windows, but is actually missing in many sound driver control panels. If you don't do this, the audio driver will send very little to your subwoofer as it will think that your main speakers can handle the low frequencies themselves. If your receiver has a Subwoofer/LFE crossover frequency it may filter it for you, but it's best to have the sound driver do it.

 

[plasmas222]

Pinhedd,

Thanks for the large amount of helpful information. Some of that I'd pieced together trying to figure this out, some not.

On my boards specs it says it supports DTS Ultra PC II and DTS Connect. When I open the Realtek HD Audio Manager, I have the option for DTS Connect over the SPDIF, and DTS Ultra PC II over the 6 rear audio ports. My receiver doesn't have the 6 ports so I can't do that one. On the optical I enabled DTS Interactive (5.1 Surround) as the default format. Under the windows sound options I checked to make sure it carried over there, and indeed DTS Connect is enabled and the default format is the same.

The only other thing I could find to install to support this was the Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect Pack. It doesn't find supported hardware (x-fi) so won't install.

I don't quite follow "Then, configure your "Speakers" playback device as 5.1/48Khz. Use the speakers as the default playback device (do not send anything to the S/PDIF port at all, it will be occupied 100% of the time by the real time encoder)."

I'm assuming you mean if I used the 6 audio ports that I mentioned?

I checked the full range setting. Can get to it on the rear audio ports ("speakers"), but the realtek digital output has the configure button grayed out and I can't access it.


It sounds like I am going to either need a sound card or DTS Connect has a screwed up setting?

 

[Pinhedd]

Pinhedd,

Thanks for the large amount of helpful information. Some of that I'd pieced together trying to figure this out, some not.

On my boards specs it says it supports DTS Ultra PC II and DTS Connect. When I open the Realtek HD Audio Manager, I have the option for DTS Connect over the SPDIF, and DTS Ultra PC II over the 6 rear audio ports. My receiver doesn't have the 6 ports so I can't do that one. On the optical I enabled DTS Interactive (5.1 Surround) as the default format. Under the windows sound options I checked to make sure it carried over there, and indeed DTS Connect is enabled and the default format is the same.

The only other thing I could find to install to support this was the Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect Pack. It doesn't find supported hardware (x-fi) so won't install.

I don't quite follow "Then, configure your "Speakers" playback device as 5.1/48Khz. Use the speakers as the default playback device (do not send anything to the S/PDIF port at all, it will be occupied 100% of the time by the real time encoder)."

I'm assuming you mean if I used the 6 audio ports that I mentioned?

I checked the full range setting. Can get to it on the rear audio ports ("speakers"), but the realtek digital output has the configure button grayed out and I can't access it.


It sounds like I am going to either need a sound card or DTS Connect has a screwed up setting?

If you can enable DTS Connect you should be good to go. The Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect Packs are separate installations for some Creative Labs sound cards only. They were patched into the drivers afterwards despite having hardware support all along. This is the result of a patent licencing dispute. I believe that the Asus/Realtek drivers have it built in.

I'm not quite sure how it works on Realtek codecs, but on Creative Labs codecs DDL/DTSConnect is completely transparent to the applications. It intercepts the data sent to the speakers, encodes it, and sends it out over S/PDIF as a bitstream.

On the volume icon in the task tray right click and select "Playback Devices". Scroll down until you find Speakers and right-click on it. Select "Configure" and follow the prompts. Select the necessary optional speakers, and deselect all full-range options. Then, make sure that the speakers are configured as the default audio device. That should do it.

 

[plasmas222]

first

second

The first image is what I have normally, the second is with unconnected devices shown. As you can see the configure button is grayed out. I'm not wanting the one called Speakers because that is for the rear audio ports, I'm using the SPDIF connection (receiver doesn't have the connections for the 6 rear audio's)

Correct, the issue isn't getting DTS Connect enabled, it's getting it to output to my sub. It does sometimes, but only if what is playing is DTS/AC3/DDL/etc. I want everything to play with the sub, regardless of what format the media itself is. From what I understand this is why I would want a sound card, it would live encode everything.

Or am I mistaken and the DTS Connect should be doing this?

 

[Pinhedd]

first

second

The first image is what I have normally, the second is with unconnected devices shown. As you can see the configure button is grayed out. I'm not wanting the one called Speakers because that is for the rear audio ports, I'm using the SPDIF connection (receiver doesn't have the connections for the 6 rear audio's)

Correct, the issue isn't getting DTS Connect enabled, it's getting it to output to my sub. It does sometimes, but only if what is playing is DTS/AC3/DDL/etc. I want everything to play with the sub, regardless of what format the media itself is. From what I understand this is why I would want a sound card, it would live encode everything.

Or am I mistaken and the DTS Connect should be doing this?

My experience with DDL/DTSConnect is only with Creative Labs sound cards, which may function differently. On mine, the S/PDIF port is disabled when DDL or DTSConnect is enabled. That program captures what is sent to the speakers port even if no speakers are plugged in to the rear panel. Realtek may implement it differently.

Most of the time the subwoofer doesn't work properly because the frequency components aren't sent to it.

Full Range speakers are speakers that can reproduce all audible frequency components from ~10hz to 24Khz. Most consumer speakers are not Full Range and can only reproduce audible frequency components from ~100hz to 20Khz. If you have full range speakers, you do not need a subwoofer.

Most games use single channel audio sources (usually wave files, or MP3s) as a point source and use a sound rendering engine to cast the sound from that point source onto one or more speakers. The single channel audio sources are used over, and over, and over again. The same wav file for a gun firing may be used hundreds of times per minute, and transformed differently depending on where in space it originated from. The single channel audio source contains all frequency components in it, some of which may not be reproducible by the speakers that are intended to play them back. The game doesn't care what the capabilities of your speakers are, or if you have a subwoofer; it only cares how many speakers you have and what their relative position is.

This leads to a process known as "bass crossover" which is only applicable to LPCM audio (uncompressed, unencoded). Bass Crossover filters the low frequency components out of each channel that is not powering a full range speaker, and sends those components to the subwoofer instead. Bass crossover is configurable, but typically starts at 80 hz or 100 hz, which is towards the bottom of the surround speaker's capabilities.

This is typically one of the last things done by the audio stack and occurs after DDL/DTSConnect has captured the audio and encoded it into a bitstream.

Receivers also have the ability to perform bass crossover, but some may ignore it if the inbound audio is an AC3/DTS bitstream. Instead, the receiver reproduces the 6 channels exactly as they were received. Crossover will be used for mono/stereo sources.

What's happening is that your games are generating 6 channel LPCM by manipulating a whole bunch of single channel LPCM sources. Very little data is being sent to the subwoofer because the audio stack thinks that the surround speakers are sufficient for reproducing the same components (below 100hz).

When you play back a video that has an AC3/DTS audio source, the AC3/DTS bitstream is either passed through to the receiver verbatim (S/PDIF passthrough) which bypasses the DDL/DTSConnect encoder entirely, or is being decoded to 6 channel LPCM and then recoded to AC3/DTS. The discrete LFE channel (subwoofer) is prerecorded by the production company, not rendered by an audio engine. Accordingly, you will hear sound coming from your subwoofer.

If you right click on the Realtek Digital Output, you may see a configuration dialog box. Play around and see if you can find that full range setting.

 

[plasmas222]

Yeah, you're correct in that I do not have full range speakers.

The only setting remotely close under the Realtek Digital Output is one to adjust center width through DTS Connect. No full range options.

Just to confirm what I am experiencing, here's some more info. Play music in most applications - no sub. Play it in something that encodes AC3, works great. Ditto for movies (unless they are already DTS, DDL, etc). Games that have a 6 channel option do play correctly through the sub but ones that don't, do not.

If I'm understanding correctly, I should be hearing the sub using DTS Interactive as I am, but something is wrong?

I'm guessing it is as you say, the most likely issue is that the frequency components are not being sent to it for some reason. Since I don't have a full range setting, are there any other possibilities I can try?

 

[Pinhedd]

Yeah, you're correct in that I do not have full range speakers.

The only setting remotely close under the Realtek Digital Output is one to adjust center width through DTS Connect. No full range options.

Just to confirm what I am experiencing, here's some more info. Play music in most applications - no sub. Play it in something that encodes AC3, works great. Ditto for movies (unless they are already DTS, DDL, etc). Games that have a 6 channel option do play correctly through the sub but ones that don't, do not.

If I'm understanding correctly, I should be hearing the sub using DTS Interactive as I am, but something is wrong?

I'm guessing it is as you say, the most likely issue is that the frequency components are not being sent to it for some reason. Since I don't have a full range setting, are there any other possibilities I can try?

That's much clearer. Okay this seems like an upmixing issue now. If a game has a 6 channel option, or autodetects the speaker configuration and the sub works, then DTSConnect is working exactly as intended.

Games that do not support surround audio (stereo only), as well as most music, use only two source channels, left and right. Sound cards usually contain a hardware mechanism for expanding stereo channels into the center, side, and rear channels, as well as the aforementioned bass filtering to make use of the subwoofer. On Creative Labs sound cards this is called CMSS-3D, but I'm not sure if there's a Realtek analogue. Your sound card should have support for a technology called "DTS NeoC" which does something very similar and works along side DTS Interactive. DTS NeoC and DTS Interactive are both part of the DTS Connect package.

DTS Interactive takes 6 discrete channels and encodes them into a 6 channel bitstream without modifying the 6 discrete channels at all. This is what you're using right now. However, problems will occur if only the left and right channels have any audio sent to them by virtue of using a stereo signal source such as a music file.

DTS NeoC takes two channels, upmixes them to 7.1 and then encodes them into an 8 channel bitstream.

I'm not sure if both can be enabled at the same time, that's something that you'll have to try for yourself. It does work on Creative cards though.

I have another recommendation though. I looked up your receiver and it has 5 HDMI inputs. Use an HDMI cable to connect your receiver to your PC through your graphics card. Then, use the HDMI codec on your graphics card instead. HDMI can carry 8 channel lossless LPCM without issue, no need to encode it to lossy AC3 or DTS.

 

[plasmas222]

I messed around some more in the Realtek HD Audio Manager interface and discovered that if I set an environment, the upmixing kicks in on everything just like I'm wanting. "Generic" and "Room" don't sound too bad, but I'd rather have it play my media closer to how it's supposed to sound...

Further note - when I set an environment, Stereo Mix (shows under recording devices in the sound panel) showed up and is the default now. I'm pretty sure it is doing what you described before.

Yes, my board supports DTS NEOC. Nowhere is there any settings for it though (aside form the aforementioned center width).

I've tried the hdmi, but I don't think it will work for my setup (or I did something wrong). I have a gtx690 (3 dvi ports + 1 mini display port). I have a dvi-to-hdmi adapter, and use it for one screen, and a dvi-vga for my other screen. When I tried to use a dvi-hdmi cable for the sound, from the third dvi port, I couldn't get it to work (think I read somewhere you can't do that). My motherboard has a hdmi port that isn't being used, but I couldn't get audio to output from it either. So yeah, if there is something I'm missing here to get the hdmi option working, I'd love that. Pretty sure it's a no go unless I want to sacrifice 1 screen.

Edit: That being said, I did another look around - I don't think I can use the 3rd dvi port, but the mini-display port is a maybe. The last post here was helpful: link
The only issue would be to somehow set it to output only audio through it. I couldn't find anything on that....

 

[Pinhedd]

I messed around some more in the Realtek HD Audio Manager interface and discovered that if I set an environment, the upmixing kicks in on everything just like I'm wanting. "Generic" and "Room" don't sound too bad, but I'd rather have it play my media closer to how it's supposed to sound...

Further note - when I set an environment, Stereo Mix (shows under recording devices in the sound panel) showed up and is the default now. I'm pretty sure it is doing what you described before.

Yes, my board supports DTS NEOC. Nowhere is there any settings for it though (aside form the aforementioned center width).

I've tried the hdmi, but I don't think it will work for my setup (or I did something wrong). I have a gtx690 (3 dvi ports + 1 mini display port). I have a dvi-to-hdmi adapter, and use it for one screen, and a dvi-vga for my other screen. When I tried to use a dvi-hdmi cable for the sound, from the third dvi port, I couldn't get it to work (think I read somewhere you can't do that). My motherboard has a hdmi port that isn't being used, but I couldn't get audio to output from it either. So yeah, if there is something I'm missing here to get the hdmi option working, I'd love that. Pretty sure it's a no go unless I want to sacrifice 1 screen.

Edit: That being said, I did another look around - I don't think I can use the 3rd dvi port, but the mini-display port is a maybe. The last post here was helpful: link
The only issue would be to somehow set it to output only audio through it. I couldn't find anything on that....

DVI cannot carry audio, so a DVI-D to HDMI cable will carry only the display signal. DisplayPort can carry audio, and can passively interface with HDMI so a DisplayPort to HDMI cable may work.

If you enable the Intel HD graphics IGP on your CPU and install the appropriate driver you can also use the HDMI port on your motherboard to send audio to an external receiver.

The process for both of these is the same. Connect the receiver via HDMI to either the DisplayPort connector on your GTX690 or HDMI connector on your motherboard and turn the receiver on. Then in the Playback Devices section, select the appropriate one as the default audio device.

 

[plasmas222]

Can you be a little more specific in what you mean by "If you enable the Intel HD graphics IGP on your CPU and install the appropriate driver you can also use the HDMI port on your motherboard to send audio to an external receiver."

I can't figure this out, I'm missing something. In device manager, under display adapters, the Intel HD Graphics 4600 isn't showing up. I checked, all drivers for motherboard are correctly installed. When I try to install the only driver available from intel (i7-4770k) it gives me the "your system does meet the minimum requirements" error.

Not sure how to get the hdmi port working...

 

[Pinhedd]

Can you be a little more specific in what you mean by "If you enable the Intel HD graphics IGP on your CPU and install the appropriate driver you can also use the HDMI port on your motherboard to send audio to an external receiver."

I can't figure this out, I'm missing something. In device manager, under display adapters, the Intel HD Graphics 4600 isn't showing up. I checked, all drivers for motherboard are correctly installed. When I try to install the only driver available from intel (i7-4770k) it gives me the "your system does meet the minimum requirements" error.

Not sure how to get the hdmi port working...

You may have the IGP disabled in the system firmware settings

 

[thee_prisoner]

DVI can carry audio if it has the right pins output and input. The Nvidia(the gtx 690 does) may have the right output pins but the adapter he is using may not have all the pins needed.

The reason the sub isn't working sometimes on 2.0(stereo) is because you need to check the speaker fill box on the realtek config. And then adjust the gain on the sub channel in the 5.1/7.1 room effects.

In terms of the HDMI port on your motherboard, it has nothing to do with you Intel HD graphics chip. In other words use your DVI outs to monitors for video and use the HDMI out from your mobo for audio. To get audio from the mobo HDMI, you need to go into the windows config and select the HDMI for audio and then go into realtek and config that also.

I hope this helps, audio with PCs can get a bit confusing.

Happy surround, the Prisoner...

 

[Pinhedd]

DVI can carry audio if it has the right pins output and input. The Nvidia(the gtx 690 does) may have the right output pins but the adapter he is using may not have all the pins needed.

No it can't. There is no provision in the DVI specification for the transmission of packets, which are necessary to support audio. HDMI uses the same pin layout as Single-Link DVI-D, but the HDMI port reads the EDID block to determine whether it's connected to an HDMI port, or a DVI port through a passive adapter.

 

[thee_prisoner]

Tell that to the all Nvidia card owners( including me on some of my cards) that use DVI audio on their video cards. hehe.

I did misspoke and should of clarified that you need DVI and the correct HDMI adapter for to output the sound.

It's been available since about the Nvidia 8800gt and the ATI 2000 series Radeon cards.

The Display port is better anyways due to being an open format.

 

[Pinhedd]

Tell that to the all Nvidia card owners( including me on some of my cards) that use DVI audio on their video cards. hehe.

I did misspoke and should of clarified that you need DVI and the correct HDMI adapter for to output the sound.

It's been available since about the Nvidia 8800gt and the ATI 2000 series Radeon cards.

The Display port is better anyways due to being an open format.

That's because the Single-Link DVI port is turned into an HDMI port for the purposes of transmission. They're fully pin compatible and electrically compatible, just with different connectors and data protocols.

 

[plasmas222]

Okay, finally got the motherboards hdmi port working (had to change a setting in bios, which then let me install the correct drivers. Before the installer wasn't seeing the hardware because it was turned off).

So this fixes all my previous problems.... but creates a new one. While the audio I am getting over the hdmi sounds beautiful and everything works great, my computer is seeing it as another display. I have looked around quite a bit and can't find a way to disable the third 'fake' display.

The most common suggestion for this issue I've seen is to duplicate screens so you're not loosing stuff onto it, and just forget that there is a "third" screen there. I don't particularly like this, but will go with it if no one knows a way to fix the issue.

Thoughts/solutions?

Edit: It appears that because the hdmi/receiver is on the motherboard and the two real screens are through the GPU, I can't duplicate my screen onto the hdmi/receiver...

 

[Pinhedd]

Okay, finally got the motherboards hdmi port working (had to change a setting in bios, which then let me install the correct drivers. Before the installer wasn't seeing the hardware because it was turned off).

So this fixes all my previous problems.... but creates a new one. While the audio I am getting over the hdmi sounds beautiful and everything works great, my computer is seeing it as another display. I have looked around quite a bit and can't find a way to disable the third 'fake' display.

The most common suggestion for this issue I've seen is to duplicate screens so you're not loosing stuff onto it, and just forget that there is a "third" screen there. I don't particularly like this, but will go with it if no one knows a way to fix the issue.

Thoughts/solutions?

Right click on your desktop and go to "screen resolution". You can play around with the display configuration in here. If you can't disable the fake display you can manipulate the layout such that the fake display is connected to a corner of one of your other displays rather than the side of it.

 

[thee_prisoner]

I'm wondering and I looked around for a bit if there is a way to disable the video signal from HDMI, either through software(hacking the EDID), maybe a reg edit, pulling pins or a special adapter so it doesn't show up as a third screen. It's easy to disable the audio but the video portion looks a little trickier.

Sometimes convenience gets in the way of customization.