Mozilla Joins EU Antitrust Case Against Microsoft

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bourgeoisdude

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If this happens, from every legal and logical viewpoint MS will have to comply. EU is a HUGE market for MS, unfortunately, and while I wish MS would say no, that is exactly what those bastards want them to do, so they can make Microsoft the villian and force more demands on them when they have to restore their business to the EU. Remember if MS leaves the EU then Europe will be forced to use non-Microsoft products, thereby competing more heavily with Microsoft. That very well could be the beginning of the end for them.

What Microsoft will need to do after this is sue Apple for including Safari. Get back in the Apple browser business and make an IE8 version for Macs. Force Apple to include IE as one of the browsers--oh that'd be awesome :)
 

nekatreven

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I think the bigger issue has nothing to do with the fact that IE is there by default. The issue (for me at least) is that it cannot be removed if you don't want it. At the exact moment you've finally gotten IE and all its DLLs out, you've just really borked your OS. The number of system-wide exploits that have stemmed from issues that originated within IE are testament to this tight integration.

That is the difference between a linux distro including a browser and MS including a browser. Linux doesn't use the initial install of that browser to force you to keep it. MS does, and that in and of itself is anti-competitive to the browser market. This matters because it means web developers are forced into making their sites comply with IEs half compliant implementation of things like CSS, and not with the standards themselves.

They could never do this if they weren't leveraging their monopoly on the OS market.

Having said all that, I have to agree that many of you have interesting points too. I think it is indisputable that MS is being anti-competitive, but maybe we just need to tell all the other browser makers to shut up and go make their own OS...and put their browser in it. I dunno
 

rtfm

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What a cack lawsuit. If people don't like whats bundled with MS operating systems, then they can buy a different operating system. Slowly removing all functionality from Windows is not a good thing. Would we all like to go back to the days of using Real Player for video..... Another thing. Less computer literate peoplee (which is most people) prefer consistency, not having to fight with a myriad of different browsers, media players etc.

Maybe the EU will sue MS for including a dictionary with MS Word next?
 

Maxor127

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Hmmm... do all of you work for Microsoft or something? I can't believe a lot of you think IE is awesome. Personally, I don't care about Microsoft forcing IE down people's throats. I think the problem the EU has is that IE is pretty much embedded into the system. It's not as simple of a task removing it from your system. Either way, I don't know why anyone would willingly use IE. It's the worst browser available among all of the popular browsers. It's slow, buggy, and has less features than the competition. And worst of all, it has horrible support for web standards. Which means a lot of web pages are made with just IE in mind, but they look like crap in other browsers. I'm sure it's deliberate on Microsoft's part. Supposedly IE 8 is supposed to be better.
 

ohim

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Why do you care if you can`t remove IE from system ? just make FF default browser is not like it reverts your FF default to IE... Windows is MS`s playground it is their doing and they have all the rights in the world to put in whatever they want to put, then comes other company like Mozilla who wants a pices of the action on MS`s own work (windows) do you find it fair that someone will come and tell you what you are allowed to build into your own OS or not? You don`t like it ? go install Unbutu and get the f** out.
 

n3ard3ath

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The only thing that makes them(EU) look bad, is the demand for a bundled browser alternative, and I agree it is'nt the solution. For me, it is'nt really an anti-competitive problem, but a security and software quality problem. The fact is IE IS not independant of the OS and that is a real issue. The fact it have relations with Windows group policies in an unmanaged environment is a security issue. It actually makes the browser and the OS AT RISK. And most of the IE users surfing freely on the web ARE in an unmanaged environment in the confort of their home. So to the guy who claims this is a strong point cause he can manage group policies for users in whatever shitty company he is working for, they should fire you. It is'nt a valid argument from a general point of view. IE can be pretty secure in a company network behind a secure server with tight server(2003)and client(XP)policies, even more since in a company users(employees) are not suposed to surf the web freely. But stating that IE is geat overall cause of it's tight integration in the OS is just stupid. It bring to light that maybe there should be different browser(IE) intergration in the OS depending the OS use(integration in Windows Business and independance in Windows Home for exemple).
 

eddieroolz

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So, the EU Antitrust Commission is feeling the crunch of the financial crisis.

OOH, A FAT CASH COW!!!!ONESHIFT1. It's Microsoft!

Let's go milk that cow of everything it's got, and then kick its ass out of EU!

My friends, EU Commission is the biggest bogus court in the world.
 

n3ard3ath

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[citation][nom]ohim[/nom]Why do you care if you can`t remove IE from system ? just make FF default browser is not like it reverts your FF default to IE... Windows is MS`s playground it is their doing and they have all the rights in the world to put in whatever they want to put, then comes other company like Mozilla who wants a pices of the action on MS`s own work (windows) do you find it fair that someone will come and tell you what you are allowed to build into your own OS or not? You don`t like it ? go install Unbutu and get the f** out.[/citation]

Caring cause of the security risks it exposes and the lack of choice it offers a customer. If tomorrow I told you Yahoo messenger had several security holes a hacker can exploit to remotly excute code on your machine, would you like to have a choice for an alternative messenger? And believe me, IE had, have and will have future security holes, like all software, but it's tight integration in the OS makes it even more dangerous, and you have to wait for a slow Windows update which only comes once a month.
 

ThePatriot

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The above laymen responders are really advertising their intelligence, or should I say: lack of it. Bet 99% of them don't even have a passport, speak only 1 language and have their fact constantly foxed.

I agree on one thing: M$ out of the EU.
Crap system from a crap company. Computers are not designed to run operating systems, they should be running applications.The sooner M$ os out of the EU, the sooner other companies will jump on the O/S development train. Innovation big time.
 

ohim

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[citation][nom]n3aRd3aTh[/nom]Caring cause of the security risks it exposes and the lack of choice it offers a customer. If tomorrow I told you Yahoo messenger had several security holes a hacker can exploit to remotly excute code on your machine, would you like to have a choice for an alternative messenger? And believe me, IE had, have and will have future security holes, like all software, but it's tight integration in the OS makes it even more dangerous, and you have to wait for a slow Windows update which only comes once a month.[/citation]
well as in the case of Yahoo messenger you have other options for instant online chat , if you don`t like the integration of IE into Windows then just don`t pay for it and install Linux. you have a big choice . No one is forceing you to install Windows on your system. And don`t get me wrong here i use Opera asa browser and not IE, but i still find it wrong for an organisation to force a software producer what to include into their OS or not. Since 1981 when MS was founded everybody was happy with every new stuff that was included in MSDOS and later with every newer version of Windows, more gadgets and stuff, now some people wants a piece of the pie to make monney and they don`t know how to do it. In the end you have the free will to install Windows or not. Told you above is just like forceing ferrari to build cars without engines for installing later a porsche engine, if you don`t like Ferrari just buy a Porsche and that`s it don`t force a company to build what you want. And from all it seems only EU has this problem wich makes me ashamed that i`m an european.
 

captaincharisma

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yea this lawsuit is pretty useless i mean computer vendors like dell and HP provide software that windows does not put on it anyway and the majority of computer uses buy brand name pc's instead of building or letting a computer store build one for them
 

n3ard3ath

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You can actually uninstall Yahoo messenger. IE does'nt have to actually run to have it's GPO flaws used. I'm all with you on the fact forcing alternative third party software on MS OSes is ridiculous. I do have the choice to use alternative software or OSes. But not everbody does, and Windows possess a huge piece of the market share of OSes which are actually all running on a huge network which is internet and IS a security issue. But I realise I'm getting nowhere there, since IE is'nt the only software running on the Web posing security risks, Windows itself does, anyone remember WormBlaster32? And alot of others does. The SQL standar itself can be really vulnerable if not managed correctly. But all that does'nt chance the fact that IE tight integration is a problem MS should adress. By making an independant and more secure browser, MS can only attract more positive opinion on their side. Making IE multiplatform like Firefox is would be a huge step and a proof IE can be a closed and an independant application. Oh, and I too use Opera, a broswer which really improved on many aspects since the last 2 years.
 
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Curnel_D talks like a true american patriot. Yuk! I hope EU grinds MS to dust all I care. Then we'd be free from MS tyranny. 200 euros from a bloated operating system? You gotta be kiddin me!
 
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I hope M$ goes down just to slap you arrogant americanos who think you own the world and can do everyting with it.
 

blackened144

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[citation][nom]n3aRd3aTh[/nom]Caring cause of the security risks it exposes and the lack of choice it offers a customer. If tomorrow I told you Yahoo messenger had several security holes a hacker can exploit to remotly excute code on your machine, would you like to have a choice for an alternative messenger? And believe me, IE had, have and will have future security holes, like all software, but it's tight integration in the OS makes it even more dangerous, and you have to wait for a slow Windows update which only comes once a month.[/citation]

This all boils down to choice. Every single person who is complaining about IE coming with Windows has the CHOICE to NOT run Windows. This includes everyone in the EU, if you have a problem with IE being built into Windows, then simply use a different operating system.
 

eddieroolz

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[citation][nom]EU rules[/nom]I hope M$ goes down just to slap you arrogant americanos who think you own the world and can do everyting with it.[/citation]

Funny considering many readers of this site are also British and Canadian.
 

blackened144

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[citation][nom]eddieroolz[/nom]Funny considering many readers of this site are also British and Canadian.[/citation]

I also bet that most of the people complaining are running Windows.
 

saravis4

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There will always be security flaws when one is connected to the internet, IE is the least of them. Has anyone thought about the computer illiterate, the people who aren't power users. Microsoft has their browser in place for them. Its a simple browser that doesn't require any additional installations to use its features. Firefox does not have as much features in its base installation, its a power user browser, that requires add ons to really set it off. These people are not interested in having to look for add ons to use their browser capably.

Also what of businesses? There are a lot of companies that have browser based applications and these applications have certain compatibilities. They also usually have certain security measures implemented for whatever browser they need used. How much of a security flaw do you think that would be, if the average end user was given the choice of what browser they wanted to use.

If EU is really interested in competition, why are they tying Microsoft's hands up? If they really wanted to support competition, wouldn't they use all that money, wasted on court costs, for funding into the other browsers.
 

n3ard3ath

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[citation][nom]blackened144[/nom]This all boils down to choice. Every single person who is complaining about IE coming with Windows has the CHOICE to NOT run Windows. This includes everyone in the EU, if you have a problem with IE being built into Windows, then simply use a different operating system.[/citation]

The end word is this yes, but it's just censuring of criticism. Criticism is diffenrent from complaining. Complaining is a demand for a change, criticism is a suggestion for a change. And not because one is using something, that he does'nt have the right to critic it. I have choice, I run Ubuntu, Vista and XP in multiboot, and still I use XP most of the time cause I like it. It's a great, fast, compatible and easy to use OS indeed. But it's not perfect either.
 

dariushro

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IE is slowing down the pace of Web Development, if it wasn't for them, browsers would be much much more advanced...they don't keep up with the features others include, and im talking under the hood, but of course we can't use those features cause most of ppl have IE and it would hurt visits.

Developers like me have to work to make the sites work in IE, that's why most of you say you have "0" problems, the problems are for ppl like me, IE does NOT follow most of the W3C standards.

I just want to see the death of IE6 at least...it's lagging every advancement is web technology, not that IE7 isn't, but it's a little better.
 
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